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If you are interested in the Gaming Industry, look herePosted:
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All,
Recently I had the opportunity to ask questions of some individuals that have been involved in the gaming industry and are now instructors at a university that offers a Game Development degree. I hope this helps shed some light on the industry and degree plan for anyone that is interested in pursuing a career in the Gaming or Simulation fields. As I get more response I will add them.
Groovy
***** ******, PhD
Associate Professor,
DeVry University
College of Engineering and Information Sciences
Game and Simulation Programming
Here are some of my thoughts about seeking a career in game programming.
The game industry is one of the hardest technical industries to break into. This is largely due to so many people wanting to work in this industry. Due to this the requirements for getting hired in an entry position is extremely difficult. Most companies do not even post entry level positions, due to the over whelming response they get.
To help give a visual, when I was at the last Game Developers Conference in San Francisco Blizzard had 2-3 entry level positions open. They decided to take resumes of people who were interested. I saw 3-4 stacks of resumes, each about 2 feet tall. At that point they just stopped taking resumes, because that was just from the first day of the 4 day conference! This should help give a reality check about the magnitude of people who desire to work in this industry. When you take that into account, it become very apparent that the competition is tough. Another example is CCP Games (developed the award winning EVE Online) has an entrance test, it has a 98% failure rate. They only start looking at the 2% who pass, and of those very few make it to an interview.
Seeing as how the competition is very tough, it becomes apparent that anyone who is wanting to get hired at a top game company needs everything they can to help break into the industry. 10-15 years ago, a degree was not required, but now that has changed. It is possible to break in without a degree, but you basically have to develop a game, publish it and have it become hugely successful, but at that point you have already made it.
Another hard part is the degree is not even enough. The degree may help get the interview, but you still have to pass the programming exam. These exams are not the same type of exam you would take to get a normal Computer Science (CS) degree. They require a very experienced understanding of C++. I was talking with a recruiter last week that said he had two senior programmers, both with over 15 years experience in C++, fail the interview exam for a game company in Austin. At the same conference I asked the owners of BioWare and 2K Games what we could do to have better candidates for their companies, their answer was simple, "Fail More Students".
I can honestly say, before I started teaching game programming classes, I had no idea how truly complex this industry is. When you start looking at what it takes to program a Graphics, Artificial Intelligence, Networking, and Physics Engine for a game, the depth of knowledge becomes staggering. Its not just an understanding of programming, but a deep understanding of each respective field. And getting something to work, well thats not good enough. You have to get it to work, have it optimized and make it multithreaded compatible. Every student that I have had that came to my classes thinking they already knew the material took 1 of 2 paths. Either they failed because they refused to put forth the actual effort required to understand the material, most often due to their egos getting in the way. The other path is they come to grips with just how little the know and start digging in to learn the concepts. Some of my favorite phrases are, "I want to put so much information in your head, I can see the blood drip from your ears" or "Every time you cry and complain about how hard this is or how hard I am pushing you, just know. You make my heart smile". Another thing to remember is that just passing a class is not good enough. When the student who just passed a class with a C or D is looking for one of the few entry level jobs, they must remember that the student who got the A is looking for that same job.
If a student wanted to get a job programming, they could do that with just a degree, probably not even have to take an entry test and could make a decent salary. If a student wants to get a job programming games that is very different story. I have already discussed the complexity and staggering amount of competition, but where you go to get the degree also makes a difference. Several companies have hired students from specific schools, so they are much more likely to go back to that school for their future needs. The game industry is very close knit, if one company really likes graduates from one University it is a sure bet that other companies will also know about this and start hiring from the same campus. The converse to this is also true, if a company has had a bad experience with a specific school, they will probably not go back there. So the degree matters, where you get the degree matters, and the final thing I would say that matters is the contacts you make at the university. Professional networking is extremely important. The school you attend should have professors who know industry professionals to help open doors and should also help sponsor events to bring game industries to campus so they can see students work. This is the best way for a student to get employed.
Hopefully that helps, now I will answer the questions you specifically asked. A few caveats, my comments are going to be geared towards game programming at AAA companies using c++, if students are interested in art, animation, scripting these comments may not apply.
1. What is the biggest misconception that you find that people have about getting into the gaming industry?
Difficulty of breaking into industry and amount of knowledge needed
2.What classes do you recommend students take in high school to prepare them for this degree and industry?
Programming, Physics, Math (Calculus)
3. How important do you find advanced math skills in this degree and industry?
Extremely
4. What kind of person do you find is best suited for this industry?
Someone who has a true passion for developing games, it requires a lot of time, you will probably eat and breath game making
5 What is the best way for a young person to break into the gaming industry?
Get a degree, Work with professors, Professional Networking, Build an amazing portfolio, and number one is Internships (but it requires the first 4)
6. What game companies would you recommend applying for after university/collage?
Every single one Breaking in is hard, if you get offered a job building Barbie's Playhouse, you take it wether or not this is the type of company/game you want. Getting published titles under your belt opens many more doors for you
7. What are the minimum recommended skills that a student needs to have before considering entering this degree plan?
Depends on the school, at DeVry you need an aptitude for math, programming and hard work, but we teach you everything you need. Other schools may require some specific courses.
8. Besides Devry, what other universities do you recommend for this degree?
Carnegie Mellon, SMU Guild Hall (Master Degree), DigiPen
9. What certain specialization do you find to be most in demand right now? What do you see in five years?
Networking, AI, Mobile gaming. In 5 years, I imagine the integration of web based gaming using the emerging HTML5 standard (WebGL, WebSockets and WebWorkers) will change a lot
10. How do you recommend approaching a game developer/studio for employment?
Meeting the companies at local game development events is the best way
11. Where do you see the gaming industry in the next five years?
Transitioning to Consoles and Web Gaming and connecting them both together
12. What other industries is a Gaming degree relevant in?
Depends on the type of game degree, at DeVry we give simulation focus as well, which opens up to any business that wants optimizations of their business processes.
13. What other industries would a game development degree be transferable to?
Simulation, with the right math and programming skills
14. Will a degree in gaming be relevant in the next 5-10 years?
Yes, but it will probably not look the same as it does now
15. Which technology degrees are more in demand at this present time? In five years?
Computer Science, Electrical Engineering, Mechanical Engineering These degrees are always a good bet since they are used to produce most everything you see in the world.
Casca note - The Individual that is listed below has over 30 years experience in the gaming field; both in developing and in teaching. He has developed games for both PC and consoles.
** *****,Med
DeVry University
Chairman, Game & Simulation Programming
1. What is the biggest misconception that you find that people have about getting into the gaming industry?
They think its as easy as playing a game. It actually takes a lot of skill and hard work. Most have no idea where game companies are located, what careers are available, and how you can prepare for them.
2. What classes do you recommend students take in high school to prepare them for this degree and industry?
I will answer for game programming because thats what I do. There are also other careers in art or level design, but that would take another whole set of questions and answers. I recommend taking all the math you can including Calculus or PreCalc. I also recommend Physics over Biology or Chemistry. If you have a chance to a take C or C++ programming class, that will let you know if you like doing it.
3. How important do you find advanced math skills in this degree and industry?
Very! You cant survive without them. I do rely heavily on my old high school trig and high school physics over 40 years later.
4. What kind of person do you find is best suited for this industry?
A self starter. Someone that likes solving problems. Someone not too easily frustrated. Someone that enjoys and is good at math and physics. Someone likes to play games and is passionate about making them.
5. What is the best way for a young person to break into the gaming industry?
Go to school. There are a number of specialized schools and degrees. If youre passionate about programming games, dont take the safe route with a degree in computer science. Go get the specialized training that will enable you to program games and not payroll.
6. What game companies would you recommend applying for after university/collage?
The companies whose games you like the most. Companies will ask you which games you like during an interview. Know something about the games theyve made.
7. What are the minimum recommended skills that a student needs to have before considering entering this degree plan?
Pre-calc for programming students. Sufficient computer knowledge. Good written communcations.
8. Besides Devry, what other universities do you recommend for this degree?
DigiPen is a dedicated game school near Seattle. Full Sail is in FL and had offered audio visual (record and TV production) for years, and got into games about 10 years ago. DeVry offers Game & Simulation Programming at about 15 locations. I am biased and consider the Dallas campus one of the best.
9. What certain specialization do you find to be most in demand right now? What do you see in five years?
Game companies are always looking for AI (artificial intelligence) and physics programmer. iPhone programmers are in strong demand right now.
10. How do you recommend approaching a game developer/studio for employment?
Get to know them first. Do an informational interview while you are in school and then later it is easier to ask them for a job.
11. Where do you see the gaming industry in the next five years?
Much larger. More emphasis on social and online games. More emphasis on mobile games. A continuing emphasis on console games. New consoles. New ways of communicating with the console.
12. What other industries is a Gaming degree relevant in? What other industries would a game development degree be transferable to?
We have students taking simulation jobs with defense contractors. In the future educators will get smarter and turn some of the courses or modules into games. Games have built-in pre and post testing. They automatically reinforce the correct behavior and punish undesired behavior.
13. Will a degree in gaming be relevant in the next 5-10 years?
Even more so. Gaming isnt going anywhere. In 1982 when Atari brought down its parent companys stock, the Wall Street Journal declared the game industry dead. Six years later they had to apologize for their underestimation of the publics interst in games.
14. Which technology degrees are more in demand at this present time? In five years?
There are more jobs in many other fields. But there will always be openings in game development. We keep making more and more games and more complicated ones that take even higher skilled people. If they really want to program games and are good at math then they should pursue their dream. Life is short. Do what you like? Dont look for the easy or safe way. My nephew always wanted to fly a plane. He was in flight school during 911. Many of the schools went out of business and he had to keep moving from one to the next. Many others gave up. Saying there were plenty of pilots already on furlough that he would never get a job. Now hes a Captain, getting paid well for doing what he always wanted to do.
Last edited by Casca ; edited 1 time in total
Recently I had the opportunity to ask questions of some individuals that have been involved in the gaming industry and are now instructors at a university that offers a Game Development degree. I hope this helps shed some light on the industry and degree plan for anyone that is interested in pursuing a career in the Gaming or Simulation fields. As I get more response I will add them.
Groovy
***** ******, PhD
Associate Professor,
DeVry University
College of Engineering and Information Sciences
Game and Simulation Programming
Here are some of my thoughts about seeking a career in game programming.
The game industry is one of the hardest technical industries to break into. This is largely due to so many people wanting to work in this industry. Due to this the requirements for getting hired in an entry position is extremely difficult. Most companies do not even post entry level positions, due to the over whelming response they get.
To help give a visual, when I was at the last Game Developers Conference in San Francisco Blizzard had 2-3 entry level positions open. They decided to take resumes of people who were interested. I saw 3-4 stacks of resumes, each about 2 feet tall. At that point they just stopped taking resumes, because that was just from the first day of the 4 day conference! This should help give a reality check about the magnitude of people who desire to work in this industry. When you take that into account, it become very apparent that the competition is tough. Another example is CCP Games (developed the award winning EVE Online) has an entrance test, it has a 98% failure rate. They only start looking at the 2% who pass, and of those very few make it to an interview.
Seeing as how the competition is very tough, it becomes apparent that anyone who is wanting to get hired at a top game company needs everything they can to help break into the industry. 10-15 years ago, a degree was not required, but now that has changed. It is possible to break in without a degree, but you basically have to develop a game, publish it and have it become hugely successful, but at that point you have already made it.
Another hard part is the degree is not even enough. The degree may help get the interview, but you still have to pass the programming exam. These exams are not the same type of exam you would take to get a normal Computer Science (CS) degree. They require a very experienced understanding of C++. I was talking with a recruiter last week that said he had two senior programmers, both with over 15 years experience in C++, fail the interview exam for a game company in Austin. At the same conference I asked the owners of BioWare and 2K Games what we could do to have better candidates for their companies, their answer was simple, "Fail More Students".
I can honestly say, before I started teaching game programming classes, I had no idea how truly complex this industry is. When you start looking at what it takes to program a Graphics, Artificial Intelligence, Networking, and Physics Engine for a game, the depth of knowledge becomes staggering. Its not just an understanding of programming, but a deep understanding of each respective field. And getting something to work, well thats not good enough. You have to get it to work, have it optimized and make it multithreaded compatible. Every student that I have had that came to my classes thinking they already knew the material took 1 of 2 paths. Either they failed because they refused to put forth the actual effort required to understand the material, most often due to their egos getting in the way. The other path is they come to grips with just how little the know and start digging in to learn the concepts. Some of my favorite phrases are, "I want to put so much information in your head, I can see the blood drip from your ears" or "Every time you cry and complain about how hard this is or how hard I am pushing you, just know. You make my heart smile". Another thing to remember is that just passing a class is not good enough. When the student who just passed a class with a C or D is looking for one of the few entry level jobs, they must remember that the student who got the A is looking for that same job.
If a student wanted to get a job programming, they could do that with just a degree, probably not even have to take an entry test and could make a decent salary. If a student wants to get a job programming games that is very different story. I have already discussed the complexity and staggering amount of competition, but where you go to get the degree also makes a difference. Several companies have hired students from specific schools, so they are much more likely to go back to that school for their future needs. The game industry is very close knit, if one company really likes graduates from one University it is a sure bet that other companies will also know about this and start hiring from the same campus. The converse to this is also true, if a company has had a bad experience with a specific school, they will probably not go back there. So the degree matters, where you get the degree matters, and the final thing I would say that matters is the contacts you make at the university. Professional networking is extremely important. The school you attend should have professors who know industry professionals to help open doors and should also help sponsor events to bring game industries to campus so they can see students work. This is the best way for a student to get employed.
Hopefully that helps, now I will answer the questions you specifically asked. A few caveats, my comments are going to be geared towards game programming at AAA companies using c++, if students are interested in art, animation, scripting these comments may not apply.
1. What is the biggest misconception that you find that people have about getting into the gaming industry?
Difficulty of breaking into industry and amount of knowledge needed
2.What classes do you recommend students take in high school to prepare them for this degree and industry?
Programming, Physics, Math (Calculus)
3. How important do you find advanced math skills in this degree and industry?
Extremely
4. What kind of person do you find is best suited for this industry?
Someone who has a true passion for developing games, it requires a lot of time, you will probably eat and breath game making
5 What is the best way for a young person to break into the gaming industry?
Get a degree, Work with professors, Professional Networking, Build an amazing portfolio, and number one is Internships (but it requires the first 4)
6. What game companies would you recommend applying for after university/collage?
Every single one Breaking in is hard, if you get offered a job building Barbie's Playhouse, you take it wether or not this is the type of company/game you want. Getting published titles under your belt opens many more doors for you
7. What are the minimum recommended skills that a student needs to have before considering entering this degree plan?
Depends on the school, at DeVry you need an aptitude for math, programming and hard work, but we teach you everything you need. Other schools may require some specific courses.
8. Besides Devry, what other universities do you recommend for this degree?
Carnegie Mellon, SMU Guild Hall (Master Degree), DigiPen
9. What certain specialization do you find to be most in demand right now? What do you see in five years?
Networking, AI, Mobile gaming. In 5 years, I imagine the integration of web based gaming using the emerging HTML5 standard (WebGL, WebSockets and WebWorkers) will change a lot
10. How do you recommend approaching a game developer/studio for employment?
Meeting the companies at local game development events is the best way
11. Where do you see the gaming industry in the next five years?
Transitioning to Consoles and Web Gaming and connecting them both together
12. What other industries is a Gaming degree relevant in?
Depends on the type of game degree, at DeVry we give simulation focus as well, which opens up to any business that wants optimizations of their business processes.
13. What other industries would a game development degree be transferable to?
Simulation, with the right math and programming skills
14. Will a degree in gaming be relevant in the next 5-10 years?
Yes, but it will probably not look the same as it does now
15. Which technology degrees are more in demand at this present time? In five years?
Computer Science, Electrical Engineering, Mechanical Engineering These degrees are always a good bet since they are used to produce most everything you see in the world.
Casca note - The Individual that is listed below has over 30 years experience in the gaming field; both in developing and in teaching. He has developed games for both PC and consoles.
** *****,Med
DeVry University
Chairman, Game & Simulation Programming
1. What is the biggest misconception that you find that people have about getting into the gaming industry?
They think its as easy as playing a game. It actually takes a lot of skill and hard work. Most have no idea where game companies are located, what careers are available, and how you can prepare for them.
2. What classes do you recommend students take in high school to prepare them for this degree and industry?
I will answer for game programming because thats what I do. There are also other careers in art or level design, but that would take another whole set of questions and answers. I recommend taking all the math you can including Calculus or PreCalc. I also recommend Physics over Biology or Chemistry. If you have a chance to a take C or C++ programming class, that will let you know if you like doing it.
3. How important do you find advanced math skills in this degree and industry?
Very! You cant survive without them. I do rely heavily on my old high school trig and high school physics over 40 years later.
4. What kind of person do you find is best suited for this industry?
A self starter. Someone that likes solving problems. Someone not too easily frustrated. Someone that enjoys and is good at math and physics. Someone likes to play games and is passionate about making them.
5. What is the best way for a young person to break into the gaming industry?
Go to school. There are a number of specialized schools and degrees. If youre passionate about programming games, dont take the safe route with a degree in computer science. Go get the specialized training that will enable you to program games and not payroll.
6. What game companies would you recommend applying for after university/collage?
The companies whose games you like the most. Companies will ask you which games you like during an interview. Know something about the games theyve made.
7. What are the minimum recommended skills that a student needs to have before considering entering this degree plan?
Pre-calc for programming students. Sufficient computer knowledge. Good written communcations.
8. Besides Devry, what other universities do you recommend for this degree?
DigiPen is a dedicated game school near Seattle. Full Sail is in FL and had offered audio visual (record and TV production) for years, and got into games about 10 years ago. DeVry offers Game & Simulation Programming at about 15 locations. I am biased and consider the Dallas campus one of the best.
9. What certain specialization do you find to be most in demand right now? What do you see in five years?
Game companies are always looking for AI (artificial intelligence) and physics programmer. iPhone programmers are in strong demand right now.
10. How do you recommend approaching a game developer/studio for employment?
Get to know them first. Do an informational interview while you are in school and then later it is easier to ask them for a job.
11. Where do you see the gaming industry in the next five years?
Much larger. More emphasis on social and online games. More emphasis on mobile games. A continuing emphasis on console games. New consoles. New ways of communicating with the console.
12. What other industries is a Gaming degree relevant in? What other industries would a game development degree be transferable to?
We have students taking simulation jobs with defense contractors. In the future educators will get smarter and turn some of the courses or modules into games. Games have built-in pre and post testing. They automatically reinforce the correct behavior and punish undesired behavior.
13. Will a degree in gaming be relevant in the next 5-10 years?
Even more so. Gaming isnt going anywhere. In 1982 when Atari brought down its parent companys stock, the Wall Street Journal declared the game industry dead. Six years later they had to apologize for their underestimation of the publics interst in games.
14. Which technology degrees are more in demand at this present time? In five years?
There are more jobs in many other fields. But there will always be openings in game development. We keep making more and more games and more complicated ones that take even higher skilled people. If they really want to program games and are good at math then they should pursue their dream. Life is short. Do what you like? Dont look for the easy or safe way. My nephew always wanted to fly a plane. He was in flight school during 911. Many of the schools went out of business and he had to keep moving from one to the next. Many others gave up. Saying there were plenty of pilots already on furlough that he would never get a job. Now hes a Captain, getting paid well for doing what he always wanted to do.
Last edited by Casca ; edited 1 time in total
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#2. Posted:
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Awesome post bro this really would help people that are intrested
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#3. Posted:
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nice post Good job bro
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Within a minute of posting, you two have already read the whole post?
right..right..
right..right..
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#5. Posted:
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Nice post man very nice post
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Nice post i hope it helps alot of people.
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#7. Posted:
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Roses are Brown
Violets are orange
Potatoe.
Violets are orange
Potatoe.
8)
Last edited by Dreamah ; edited 1 time in total
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#8. Posted:
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Motto: Fun Fact: You have a 1 in 20 chance that your house will burn down once you become a staff member!
Motto: Fun Fact: You have a 1 in 20 chance that your house will burn down once you become a staff member!
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Motto: Fun Fact: You have a 1 in 20 chance that your house will burn down once you become a staff member!
This is why people love you Casca,
Fantastic work, as per usual. 8)
Fantastic work, as per usual. 8)
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Tbh i didnt read all of it as its very long and im not focused atm :p but wat i read it was very good to whoever would like to enter those fields nice post :nyancat::nyancat:
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great post i read all of it unlike some people lol
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