Look, I'm not really too familiar with the US amendment, but it can be changed and modified as society evolves and people's perceptions change.

[ Register or Signin to view external links. ]

Ofc, I can't judge another country's constitution without knowing a lot about it, so I'm sorry about the remarks I did make about your constitution. Now, about the whole NDAA thing, that is only if they are accused of terrorism. That doesn't make it right, but similar countries that now have strict gun laws have had laws like the one that you've described in the past.

Besides, what's the point that you are trying to make? That the US will suddenly destroy their reputation and power and turn into a fascist nation? Come on, that seems really unrealistic. Also, if that were to happen, WW3 would start. That will not and can't happen just because they take away some silly guns. Remember that the US is a huge opponent of communism. I have a hard time believing that guns are the only thing that holds your nation together.

Again, even if it is in a constitution, if a constitution permitted the right to enslave any person you wanted, would you not be against that constitution? There are other crimes that are not gun-based, but in terms of weapons, guns are one of the most efficient and deadly. You can kill 20+ people before any police get there, as the recent Conneticut shooting showed us, but you can't do the same thing with a knife or blade. I'm pretty sure Switzerland has strict gun laws too. If you look at the facts, the more guns a nation has, the more gun violence there will be (in general). Why do you think that if everyone had guns, that would suddenly decrease gun violence? If anything, it would make it worse.

Also, about the various quotes at the end, um, yeah, all these other countries have strict gun laws, and their people aren't enslaved. If anything, they have more control of their country and government than the Americans, like I showed you in the Democracy Index. You say that it is your right to own a gun, and without it, the government can turn into a Nazi-type government. Yet, in the countries that you initally don't have the right to own one, people usually have more control over their government. The governments aren't afraid to trust their people with arms, they have just looked at the facts and have seen that removing guns makes a difference. If it protects their people, there's nothing bad about it. Even if it's your right to own a gun, I don't see the positive effects of owning one.

The purpose of government is to enable the people of a nation to live in safety and happiness. Government exists for the interests of the governed, not for the governors.- Thomas Edison

Establish wrote

Click to View Content

Yin wrote

Establish wrote [spoil]

Yin wrote

Establish wrote

AAmbitionsIsBack wrote There is an amendment that gives us the right to bear arms. Also GUNS don't kill people, people kill people. Whether its with a gun or a simple homemade pipe bomb, its still the humans fault. Banning guns is going to do nothing. Drugs are illegal and look... criminals still get them when they feel like it. Legal or not, people will get what they want. Also they plan on banning assault rifles? The killer from the most recent shooting used a single shot rifle, basically a pistol. People can do the same damage with pistols obviously. One last note. This was brought up in my civics class today: since George bush left office(most recent bush), over 170 CHILDREN, just children have been killed while trying to kill fugitives throughout the world with drones, WHY are they not banned.
Post your thoughts. I would have posted this a few days ago, but i have been busy studying for some finals. But please post your thoughts about banning guns!

Alright, first of all, you Americans are ridiculous with your amendments. Laws can be changed if they are wrong or do not reflect today's society. For example, the Jim Crow laws were wrong, and were thus removed in America after a Civil Rights movement. America has the highest rate of gun ownership in the world, [ Register or Signin to view external links. ] . Now, you say that guns will not stop anything? That's a stupid statement that is not backed up by sources and facts. Compare the UK, Canada, Japan, and others to the US. What do those nations/continents have in common that America doesn't? Strict gun laws. And honestly, the gun violence is much lower in those countries. Here's some proof:
[ Register or Signin to view external links. ]

As the article says, The U.S. gun homicide rate is 30 times that of France or Australia, according to the U.N. Office on Drugs and Crime, and 12 times higher than the average for other developed countries. Japan, who has some of the most strict gun control, has a gun homicide rate of almost 0. Go ahead, and go to this [ Register or Signin to view external links. ] . Click homicides by firearms. Compare the countries that have strict gun laws, like Israel, Canada, the UK, Japan, Australia, and most of Europe, and then compare that to the US. Obviously, removing guns does make a difference in gun violence, but some of you ignorant Americans just can't see that. No one says that removing guns entirely and completely removes gun violence, but it will reduce the amount of gun violence America is facing. The more people that are not killed by guns, the better. "Legal or not, people will still get what they want". That may be, but in many of these countries, you have to take a mental test, have to be a certain age, can only be permitted one under police/hunting use and many more restrictions. The fact is, it's much easier for someone who is mentally unstable whose life is not that great to say "Well, I'm going to kill some people" if he has a gun. Without a gun, the restrictions will make him/her think some more about what they have done. And again, as I've shown you, removing guns makes a huge difference.

If you Americans set your precious amendment aside, and realized you do not have the right to own guns, you could save the lives of people in your country.

Amendments aren't laws, so they shouldn't be changed. They are rights that were set in stone by our founding fathers. I do have the right to own guns. Without guns you are basically giving your country the right to own you. This country is suppose to be ran by the citizens, not the government. The government is just suppose to be the representative of the people. With the laws going around that the government can assassinate, torture, or imprison indefinitely any citizen of the United States they choose, I'm going to be smart enough and say we need the guns. You get rid of our guns, we can easily become a Nazi country. The south has very open gun laws, and I have yet to see a type of shooting like that around here. Of course it will make a difference in homocides throughout the country, but that's not the argument here. That Constitution is America. That is who we are. Those are our rights, and no one has the right to take them away. If they try, that will be terrorism and could start a war.

So? The founding fathers weren't right on every single issue that was handed to them. Even if it is an amendment, it's still wrong and should be changed to reflect what is best for the community today. One of the purposes of a government is to protect its citizens, and by having virtually no gun control, the US is doing the opposite. You say that the country is supposed to be run by the citizens, not the government. However, if we look at the [ Register or Signin to view external links. ] , out of the top 10 or so countries on that list, most if not all have strict gun laws. If the most democratic countries in the world can adopt strict gun laws, and still be democratic and care for their people, I can't see why the US cannot do the same.

Yeah, about the whole torturing thing, I don't see the Japanese or British governments torturing their citizens. How will taking away guns make you become a Nazi type government? I believe the US legal system is a bit more strict than that, and that's a huge exaggeration. Every single country that has undergone a transformation in gun laws, such as Canada and Australia has not dealt with a Nazi-type government. Out of all the countries that have strict gun laws, how many have ever had to deal with a fascist government? Now, according to this [ Register or Signin to view external links. ] , out of the top 6 states in terms of gun homicide rate, 4 are in the [ Register or Signin to view external links. ] . Now, not only this, but out of the bottom 20 states or so, only 2 (West Virginia and Delaware) are in the southern US.

What this means is that if the even if the south has slightly more open gun laws, it has a negative impact. The south also has some mass shootings, as proven with [ Register or Signin to view external links. ] . Um the argument is reducing the amount of homicides. If you're saving more lives, is that not a good thing? Or do you simply not care about the innocent people who are killed because of these open gun laws?

I'm sorry, but if that constitution is America, then that constitution of yours is wrong. No one has the right to take your "guns" away? I live in a country with strict gun control, and I don't care, infact, I support their decision. Like I said before, it is not your right to own a gun, and there is no reason for you to be owning a gun (other than police/army/hunting use). If you say self-defence, then again, I can show you to all the countries that have much more strict gun laws than the US and show you how much safer it is in those countries. If you try to take them away, it becomes terrorism? LOL, are you kidding me? Do you really think taking away guns will start a war? Even Australia, which was a very gun influenced culture, still saw decreases in gun violence once it revised it's gun laws, and no war was initiated there.

Lol, I have no right to own a gun? Seriously? That right was given to me by the top guys that established this country. Have you read the NDAA? The can torture, assassinate, and imprison any U.S. citizen they want without due process. During the Connecticut shooting, they managed to take out a ban that kept us from being indefinitely detentioned without a trial. This meaning now we can be imprisoned for as long as they wish without any type of trial. That itself is against our Constitution and is creating some very big controversy at the moment. We are losing are rights left and right. The government is even working to have drones within our country for surveillance purposes. Cool, you think guns are wrong so you are against them, but it doesn't mean it's right. I personally hate all the gun crimes myself, but it's the fact that it's in the Constitution and they are our rights. If I entered a country and their Constitution banned guns, I would agree with it 100% as well. It's the people that kill, not the guns and not everyone with guns. I can't argue with a country that has the right to bare arms, because it is their right. Maybe if they make handguns mandatory, maybe our crime rate would drop like Switzerland's did. If Operation Northwoods or 9/11 decides to happend again, I think the people have the right to be armed and defend themselves. The next "invasion" could be in our homeland in an all out war. Also, Wikipedia not a great, reliable source for statistics, not that I care, but just saying. This isn't about statistics, this is about what this country is. If people have a big problem with it, there are other countries to move to. I have actually thought about either Canada or England. I can't argue with a country's constitution, but I can leave if I feel worried. Also, some great and true quotes for this (by the founders and other men of their time):

We should not forget that the spark which ignited the American Revolution was caused by the British attempt to confiscate the firearms of the colonists. - Patrick Henry

"The constitutions of most of our States assert that all power is inherent in the people; that... it is their right and duty to be at all times armed." --Thomas Jefferson

To disarm the people is the best and most effectual way to enslave them. George Mason

Americans have the right and advantage of being armed unlike the citizens of other countries whose governments are afraid to trust the people with arms. James Madison

The Constitution shall never be construed to prevent the people of the United States who are peaceable citizens from keeping their own arms. Samuel Adams

The usual road to slavery is that first they take away your guns, then they take away your property, then last of all they tell you to shut up and say you are enjoying it. James A. Donald

After a shooting spree, they always want to take the guns away from the people who didn't do it. I sure as hell wouldn't want to live in a society where the only people allowed guns are the police and the military. William S. Burroughs

Look, I'm not really too familiar with the US amendment, but it can be changed and modified as society evolves and people's perceptions change.

[ Register or Signin to view external links. ]

Ofc, I can't judge another country's constitution without knowing a lot about it, so I'm sorry about the remarks I did make about your constitution. Now, about the whole NDAA thing, that is only if they are accused of terrorism. That doesn't make it right, but similar countries that now have strict gun laws have had laws like the one that you've described in the past.

Besides, what's the point that you are trying to make? That the US will suddenly destroy their reputation and power and turn into a fascist nation? Come on, that seems really unrealistic. Also, if that were to happen, WW3 would start. That will not and can't happen just because they take away some silly guns. Remember that the US is a huge opponent of communism. I have a hard time believing that guns are the only thing that holds your nation together.

Again, even if it is in a constitution, if a constitution permitted the right to enslave any person you wanted, would you not be against that constitution? There are other crimes that are not gun-based, but in terms of weapons, guns are one of the most efficient and deadly. You can kill 20+ people before any police get there, as the recent Conneticut shooting showed us, but you can't do the same thing with a knife or blade. I'm pretty sure Switzerland has strict gun laws too. If you look at the facts, the more guns a nation has, the more gun violence there will be (in general). Why do you think that if everyone had guns, that would suddenly decrease gun violence? If anything, it would make it worse.

Also, about the various quotes at the end, um, yeah, all these other countries have strict gun laws, and their people aren't enslaved. If anything, they have more control of their country and government than the Americans, like I showed you in the Democracy Index. You say that it is your right to own a gun, and without it, the government can turn into a Nazi-type government. Yet, in the countries that you initally don't have the right to own one, people usually have more control over their government. The governments aren't afraid to trust their people with arms, they have just looked at the facts and have seen that removing guns makes a difference. If it protects their people, there's nothing bad about it. Even if it's your right to own a gun, I don't see the positive effects of owning one.

The purpose of government is to enable the people of a nation to live in safety and happiness. Government exists for the interests of the governed, not for the governors.- Thomas Edison

The U.S. isn't a third world country like most of the others, so having control over this government would be quite difficult. We are one of the most advanced, corrupt, and power hungry. We are moving towards a Nazi nation, but just in a different manner than Hitler. Hit;er used his words and power. The U.S. is using the media, tragic events, and "the fight on terror" to get us where they want. Our media is so messed up it's unreal. They can change their story on a dime without any physical evidence. It always works as well. This is most likely where you stop reading, but I'm one that believes 9/11 was set up. Just look at it's story, then look at Operation Northwoods. VERY similar situations and circumstances. Just look at 9/11's "evidence" as well. IDs and passports surviving a completely destroyed aircraft, seems legit. If slavery was in my constitution, I would think our people would rise up and take back the government and make a new constitution. If they change our gun rights, I can see where that could take place again (though I can see where it won't just because people are afraid. They talk big and bad wanting guns, but won't fight for their rights) I would fight against slavery, and I am 50/50 on guns. It's in the Constitution, so I am going to back up the people's rights. I don't understand why Switzerland having strict gun laws, but almost everyone owns a gun, has anything to do with the very little gun crimes that happen there. They are strict, but almost everyone carries a gun (mandatory.) By what you were saying, more guns equal more crime, but just not there. True, the NDAA is for terrorism, but it says any U.S. citizen of the United States. Wording is a big thing when talking about important documents. Also, I believe even terrorists have right to due process and a trial. Those are also rights under the Constitution. I know I'm throwing that out there all of the time to justify these things, but it's the doctrine of the country. Maybe I'm old fashioned. Maybe I respect too much what they wanted this country to be, and it's just not turning out that way. I'm sure this isn't the country they had in mind.

Yin wrote

Establish wrote

Click to View Content

Yin wrote

Establish wrote [spoil]

Yin wrote

Establish wrote

AAmbitionsIsBack wrote There is an amendment that gives us the right to bear arms. Also GUNS don't kill people, people kill people. Whether its with a gun or a simple homemade pipe bomb, its still the humans fault. Banning guns is going to do nothing. Drugs are illegal and look... criminals still get them when they feel like it. Legal or not, people will get what they want. Also they plan on banning assault rifles? The killer from the most recent shooting used a single shot rifle, basically a pistol. People can do the same damage with pistols obviously. One last note. This was brought up in my civics class today: since George bush left office(most recent bush), over 170 CHILDREN, just children have been killed while trying to kill fugitives throughout the world with drones, WHY are they not banned.
Post your thoughts. I would have posted this a few days ago, but i have been busy studying for some finals. But please post your thoughts about banning guns!

Alright, first of all, you Americans are ridiculous with your amendments. Laws can be changed if they are wrong or do not reflect today's society. For example, the Jim Crow laws were wrong, and were thus removed in America after a Civil Rights movement. America has the highest rate of gun ownership in the world, [ Register or Signin to view external links. ] . Now, you say that guns will not stop anything? That's a stupid statement that is not backed up by sources and facts. Compare the UK, Canada, Japan, and others to the US. What do those nations/continents have in common that America doesn't? Strict gun laws. And honestly, the gun violence is much lower in those countries. Here's some proof:
[ Register or Signin to view external links. ]

As the article says, The U.S. gun homicide rate is 30 times that of France or Australia, according to the U.N. Office on Drugs and Crime, and 12 times higher than the average for other developed countries. Japan, who has some of the most strict gun control, has a gun homicide rate of almost 0. Go ahead, and go to this [ Register or Signin to view external links. ] . Click homicides by firearms. Compare the countries that have strict gun laws, like Israel, Canada, the UK, Japan, Australia, and most of Europe, and then compare that to the US. Obviously, removing guns does make a difference in gun violence, but some of you ignorant Americans just can't see that. No one says that removing guns entirely and completely removes gun violence, but it will reduce the amount of gun violence America is facing. The more people that are not killed by guns, the better. "Legal or not, people will still get what they want". That may be, but in many of these countries, you have to take a mental test, have to be a certain age, can only be permitted one under police/hunting use and many more restrictions. The fact is, it's much easier for someone who is mentally unstable whose life is not that great to say "Well, I'm going to kill some people" if he has a gun. Without a gun, the restrictions will make him/her think some more about what they have done. And again, as I've shown you, removing guns makes a huge difference.

If you Americans set your precious amendment aside, and realized you do not have the right to own guns, you could save the lives of people in your country.

Amendments aren't laws, so they shouldn't be changed. They are rights that were set in stone by our founding fathers. I do have the right to own guns. Without guns you are basically giving your country the right to own you. This country is suppose to be ran by the citizens, not the government. The government is just suppose to be the representative of the people. With the laws going around that the government can assassinate, torture, or imprison indefinitely any citizen of the United States they choose, I'm going to be smart enough and say we need the guns. You get rid of our guns, we can easily become a Nazi country. The south has very open gun laws, and I have yet to see a type of shooting like that around here. Of course it will make a difference in homocides throughout the country, but that's not the argument here. That Constitution is America. That is who we are. Those are our rights, and no one has the right to take them away. If they try, that will be terrorism and could start a war.

So? The founding fathers weren't right on every single issue that was handed to them. Even if it is an amendment, it's still wrong and should be changed to reflect what is best for the community today. One of the purposes of a government is to protect its citizens, and by having virtually no gun control, the US is doing the opposite. You say that the country is supposed to be run by the citizens, not the government. However, if we look at the [ Register or Signin to view external links. ] , out of the top 10 or so countries on that list, most if not all have strict gun laws. If the most democratic countries in the world can adopt strict gun laws, and still be democratic and care for their people, I can't see why the US cannot do the same.

Yeah, about the whole torturing thing, I don't see the Japanese or British governments torturing their citizens. How will taking away guns make you become a Nazi type government? I believe the US legal system is a bit more strict than that, and that's a huge exaggeration. Every single country that has undergone a transformation in gun laws, such as Canada and Australia has not dealt with a Nazi-type government. Out of all the countries that have strict gun laws, how many have ever had to deal with a fascist government? Now, according to this [ Register or Signin to view external links. ] , out of the top 6 states in terms of gun homicide rate, 4 are in the [ Register or Signin to view external links. ] . Now, not only this, but out of the bottom 20 states or so, only 2 (West Virginia and Delaware) are in the southern US.

What this means is that if the even if the south has slightly more open gun laws, it has a negative impact. The south also has some mass shootings, as proven with [ Register or Signin to view external links. ] . Um the argument is reducing the amount of homicides. If you're saving more lives, is that not a good thing? Or do you simply not care about the innocent people who are killed because of these open gun laws?

I'm sorry, but if that constitution is America, then that constitution of yours is wrong. No one has the right to take your "guns" away? I live in a country with strict gun control, and I don't care, infact, I support their decision. Like I said before, it is not your right to own a gun, and there is no reason for you to be owning a gun (other than police/army/hunting use). If you say self-defence, then again, I can show you to all the countries that have much more strict gun laws than the US and show you how much safer it is in those countries. If you try to take them away, it becomes terrorism? LOL, are you kidding me? Do you really think taking away guns will start a war? Even Australia, which was a very gun influenced culture, still saw decreases in gun violence once it revised it's gun laws, and no war was initiated there.

Lol, I have no right to own a gun? Seriously? That right was given to me by the top guys that established this country. Have you read the NDAA? The can torture, assassinate, and imprison any U.S. citizen they want without due process. During the Connecticut shooting, they managed to take out a ban that kept us from being indefinitely detentioned without a trial. This meaning now we can be imprisoned for as long as they wish without any type of trial. That itself is against our Constitution and is creating some very big controversy at the moment. We are losing are rights left and right. The government is even working to have drones within our country for surveillance purposes. Cool, you think guns are wrong so you are against them, but it doesn't mean it's right. I personally hate all the gun crimes myself, but it's the fact that it's in the Constitution and they are our rights. If I entered a country and their Constitution banned guns, I would agree with it 100% as well. It's the people that kill, not the guns and not everyone with guns. I can't argue with a country that has the right to bare arms, because it is their right. Maybe if they make handguns mandatory, maybe our crime rate would drop like Switzerland's did. If Operation Northwoods or 9/11 decides to happend again, I think the people have the right to be armed and defend themselves. The next "invasion" could be in our homeland in an all out war. Also, Wikipedia not a great, reliable source for statistics, not that I care, but just saying. This isn't about statistics, this is about what this country is. If people have a big problem with it, there are other countries to move to. I have actually thought about either Canada or England. I can't argue with a country's constitution, but I can leave if I feel worried. Also, some great and true quotes for this (by the founders and other men of their time):

We should not forget that the spark which ignited the American Revolution was caused by the British attempt to confiscate the firearms of the colonists. - Patrick Henry

"The constitutions of most of our States assert that all power is inherent in the people; that... it is their right and duty to be at all times armed." --Thomas Jefferson

To disarm the people is the best and most effectual way to enslave them. George Mason

Americans have the right and advantage of being armed unlike the citizens of other countries whose governments are afraid to trust the people with arms. James Madison

The Constitution shall never be construed to prevent the people of the United States who are peaceable citizens from keeping their own arms. Samuel Adams

The usual road to slavery is that first they take away your guns, then they take away your property, then last of all they tell you to shut up and say you are enjoying it. James A. Donald

After a shooting spree, they always want to take the guns away from the people who didn't do it. I sure as hell wouldn't want to live in a society where the only people allowed guns are the police and the military. William S. Burroughs

Look, I'm not really too familiar with the US amendment, but it can be changed and modified as society evolves and people's perceptions change.

[ Register or Signin to view external links. ]

Ofc, I can't judge another country's constitution without knowing a lot about it, so I'm sorry about the remarks I did make about your constitution. Now, about the whole NDAA thing, that is only if they are accused of terrorism. That doesn't make it right, but similar countries that now have strict gun laws have had laws like the one that you've described in the past.

Besides, what's the point that you are trying to make? That the US will suddenly destroy their reputation and power and turn into a fascist nation? Come on, that seems really unrealistic. Also, if that were to happen, WW3 would start. That will not and can't happen just because they take away some silly guns. Remember that the US is a huge opponent of communism. I have a hard time believing that guns are the only thing that holds your nation together.

Again, even if it is in a constitution, if a constitution permitted the right to enslave any person you wanted, would you not be against that constitution? There are other crimes that are not gun-based, but in terms of weapons, guns are one of the most efficient and deadly. You can kill 20+ people before any police get there, as the recent Conneticut shooting showed us, but you can't do the same thing with a knife or blade. I'm pretty sure Switzerland has strict gun laws too. If you look at the facts, the more guns a nation has, the more gun violence there will be (in general). Why do you think that if everyone had guns, that would suddenly decrease gun violence? If anything, it would make it worse.

Also, about the various quotes at the end, um, yeah, all these other countries have strict gun laws, and their people aren't enslaved. If anything, they have more control of their country and government than the Americans, like I showed you in the Democracy Index. You say that it is your right to own a gun, and without it, the government can turn into a Nazi-type government. Yet, in the countries that you initally don't have the right to own one, people usually have more control over their government. The governments aren't afraid to trust their people with arms, they have just looked at the facts and have seen that removing guns makes a difference. If it protects their people, there's nothing bad about it. Even if it's your right to own a gun, I don't see the positive effects of owning one.

The purpose of government is to enable the people of a nation to live in safety and happiness. Government exists for the interests of the governed, not for the governors.- Thomas Edison

The U.S. isn't a third world country like most of the others, so having control over this government would be quite difficult. We are one of the most advanced, corrupt, and power hungry. We are moving towards a Nazi nation, but just in a different manner than Hitler. Hit;er used his words and power. The U.S. is using the media, tragic events, and "the fight on terror" to get us where they want. Our media is so messed up it's unreal. They can change their story on a dime without any physical evidence. It always works as well. This is most likely where you stop reading, but I'm one that believes 9/11 was set up. Just look at it's story, then look at Operation Northwoods. VERY similar situations and circumstances. Just look at 9/11's "evidence" as well. IDs and passports surviving a completely destroyed aircraft, seems legit. If slavery was in my constitution, I would think our people would rise up and take back the government and make a new constitution. If they change our gun rights, I can see where that could take place again (though I can see where it won't just because people are afraid. They talk big and bad wanting guns, but won't fight for their rights) I would fight against slavery, and I am 50/50 on guns. It's in the Constitution, so I am going to back up the people's rights. I don't understand why Switzerland having strict gun laws, but almost everyone owns a gun, has anything to do with the very little gun crimes that happen there. They are strict, but almost everyone carries a gun (mandatory.) By what you were saying, more guns equal more crime, but just not there. True, the NDAA is for terrorism, but it says any U.S. citizen of the United States. Wording is a big thing when talking about important documents. Also, I believe even terrorists have right to due process and a trial. Those are also rights under the Constitution. I know I'm throwing that out there all of the time to justify these things, but it's the doctrine of the country. Maybe I'm old fashioned. Maybe I respect too much what they wanted this country to be, and it's just not turning out that way. I'm sure this isn't the country they had in mind.

The UK, Japan, Australia, Canada, etc are first-world countries. I would say that all of them are advanced and first-world nations. As for the media, sure, there's FOX News, but there are some legitimate stations that don't do that. As for the 9/11 thing, I've heard it before, but IDK, would a country really kill it's own people? I'm pretty sure some international organization would have found out by now, and done something. Hell, if Osama didn't even do anything, and they had no proof of him being there, then why would the US kill him because of 9/11, and why would Osama accept the blame? As for Switzerland, they still have about half the guns per capita compared to the US. Also, most men there are enlisted in the militia, so they have to have guns. As well, who says that the U.S. will be the same as Switzerland if more guns come into play? Switzerland is an outlier. Besides, obviously, the same policies in Switzerland don't work in the US, nor did it work in most countries, especially countries with similar cultures to the Americans, so that's where the gun control comes in.

And yes, everyone should have the fair right to a trial. But who says that the US will ever extend that to citizens, or even regular criminals for that matter? I'm sure the UN will have something to say about that.

Establish wrote

AAmbitionsIsBack wrote

Establish wrote

AAmbitionsIsBack wrote There is an amendment that gives us the right to bear arms. Also GUNS don't kill people, people kill people. Whether its with a gun or a simple homemade pipe bomb, its still the humans fault. Banning guns is going to do nothing. Drugs are illegal and look... criminals still get them when they feel like it. Legal or not, people will get what they want. Also they plan on banning assault rifles? The killer from the most recent shooting used a single shot rifle, basically a pistol. People can do the same damage with pistols obviously. One last note. This was brought up in my civics class today: since George bush left office(most recent bush), over 170 CHILDREN, just children have been killed while trying to kill fugitives throughout the world with drones, WHY are they not banned.
Post your thoughts. I would have posted this a few days ago, but i have been busy studying for some finals. But please post your thoughts about banning guns!

Alright, first of all, you Americans are ridiculous with your amendments. Laws can be changed if they are wrong or do not reflect today's society. For example, the Jim Crow laws were wrong, and were thus removed in America after a Civil Rights movement. America has the highest rate of gun ownership in the world, [ Register or Signin to view external links. ] . Now, you say that guns will not stop anything? That's a stupid statement that is not backed up by sources and facts. Compare the UK, Canada, Japan, and others to the US. What do those nations/continents have in common that America doesn't? Strict gun laws. And honestly, the gun violence is much lower in those countries. Here's some proof:
[ Register or Signin to view external links. ]

As the article says, The U.S. gun homicide rate is 30 times that of France or Australia, according to the U.N. Office on Drugs and Crime, and 12 times higher than the average for other developed countries. Japan, who has some of the most strict gun control, has a gun homicide rate of almost 0. Go ahead, and go to this [ Register or Signin to view external links. ] . Click homicides by firearms. Compare the countries that have strict gun laws, like Israel, Canada, the UK, Japan, Australia, and most of Europe, and then compare that to the US. Obviously, removing guns does make a difference in gun violence, but some of you ignorant Americans just can't see that. No one says that removing guns entirely and completely removes gun violence, but it will reduce the amount of gun violence America is facing. The more people that are not killed by guns, the better. "Legal or not, people will still get what they want". That may be, but in many of these countries, you have to take a mental test, have to be a certain age, can only be permitted one under police/hunting use and many more restrictions. The fact is, it's much easier for someone who is mentally unstable whose life is not that great to say "Well, I'm going to kill some people" if he has a gun. Without a gun, the restrictions will make him/her think some more about what they have done. And again, as I've shown you, removing guns makes a huge difference.

If you Americans set your precious amendment aside, and realized you do not have the right to own guns, you could save the lives of people in your country.

Well based on your "facts" why are drugs so high in the US compared to other countries even though they are illegal? Same with guns, Obama **** himsel in the butt when he said he was going i make strict laws. First off, the day and days after,soooooo many more rifles werre sold and are still being sold. So guess what? Making new laws isn't going to change anything now, especially with more and more people buying them. I know my brother went out and bought a rifle, just because of the laws. This is my opinion and i do believe that people are the problem.
Also, i do think, am not completely sure, newer kills a lotttttt more people than shootings do. Meaning drunk driving. But yet they don't ban beer etc??

This isn't about drugs, this is about guns. Again, like the other guy, you guys are going off topic here. Drugs are completely different from guns, and that has nothing to do with anything. My facts are right, and making new laws will change things, just like it did in Canada, Australia, and tons of other countries. If you are right about alcohol, then still, that is again, something completely different. The fact is, if you had the chance to minimize death by enacting simple laws, then would you do it? If the amount of killings with a certain type of method can be reduced, then why are you Americans trying to portray that as a bad thing?

You don't know America if you think gun bans will work. Everybody and their brother has a gun here making guns illegal will just make gun transactions discrete and underground. The only gun restrictions I'd agree on would be reasonable magazine sizes for semi-auto rifles. 10-15 rounds is enough, and I'd say is fair for civilian use. But that won't stop psychopaths anyways.

its our rite to bear arms 2nd amenment this will never go far trust me

The logic here is flawed.

AAmbitionsIsBack/Foam wrote Guns don't kill people, people kill people.

People do kill people. However, people with guns kill more people.

If someone wants to hurt a lot of people, they will have a much easier time doing so if they have a gun. Most people would not be able to successfully rob a bank by strangling every person inside the bank; it would be far easier to just shoot everyone. Additionally, the reason shootings are as devastating and as tragic as they are is because guns make killing people much faster; by the time the police arrive at the scene of a shooting, the majority of the people the gunman wanted to kill will most likely be dead.

With that said, I don't think that guns should be banned altogether, I just think that it should be much harder for people to acquire them.

I agree. Guns shouldn't be banned for how could we protect ourselves when all of these "thugs" aka bad people will always manage to acquire guns.

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AAmbitionsIsBack wrote There is an amendment that gives us the right to bear arms. Also GUNS don't kill people, people kill people. Whether its with a gun or a simple homemade pipe bomb, its still the humans fault. Banning guns is going to do nothing. Drugs are illegal and look... criminals still get them when they feel like it. Legal or not, people will get what they want. Also they plan on banning assault rifles? The killer from the most recent shooting used a single shot rifle, basically a pistol. People can do the same damage with pistols obviously. One last note. This was brought up in my civics class today: since George bush left office(most recent bush), over 170 CHILDREN, just children have been killed while trying to kill fugitives throughout the world with drones, WHY are they not banned.
Post your thoughts. I would have posted this a few days ago, but i have been busy studying for some finals. But please post your thoughts about banning guns!

Alright, first of all, you Americans are ridiculous with your amendments. Laws can be changed if they are wrong or do not reflect today's society. For example, the Jim Crow laws were wrong, and were thus removed in America after a Civil Rights movement. America has the highest rate of gun ownership in the world, [ Register or Signin to view external links. ] . Now, you say that guns will not stop anything? That's a stupid statement that is not backed up by sources and facts. Compare the UK, Canada, Japan, and others to the US. What do those nations/continents have in common that America doesn't? Strict gun laws. And honestly, the gun violence is much lower in those countries. Here's some proof:
[ Register or Signin to view external links. ]

As the article says, The U.S. gun homicide rate is 30 times that of France or Australia, according to the U.N. Office on Drugs and Crime, and 12 times higher than the average for other developed countries. Japan, who has some of the most strict gun control, has a gun homicide rate of almost 0. Go ahead, and go to this [ Register or Signin to view external links. ] . Click homicides by firearms. Compare the countries that have strict gun laws, like Israel, Canada, the UK, Japan, Australia, and most of Europe, and then compare that to the US. Obviously, removing guns does make a difference in gun violence, but some of you ignorant Americans just can't see that. No one says that removing guns entirely and completely removes gun violence, but it will reduce the amount of gun violence America is facing. The more people that are not killed by guns, the better. "Legal or not, people will still get what they want". That may be, but in many of these countries, you have to take a mental test, have to be a certain age, can only be permitted one under police/hunting use and many more restrictions. The fact is, it's much easier for someone who is mentally unstable whose life is not that great to say "Well, I'm going to kill some people" if he has a gun. Without a gun, the restrictions will make him/her think some more about what they have done. And again, as I've shown you, removing guns makes a huge difference.

If you Americans set your precious amendment aside, and realized you do not have the right to own guns, you could save the lives of people in your country.

Amendments aren't laws, so they shouldn't be changed. They are rights that were set in stone by our founding fathers. I do have the right to own guns. Without guns you are basically giving your country the right to own you. This country is suppose to be ran by the citizens, not the government. The government is just suppose to be the representative of the people. With the laws going around that the government can assassinate, torture, or imprison indefinitely any citizen of the United States they choose, I'm going to be smart enough and say we need the guns. You get rid of our guns, we can easily become a Nazi country. The south has very open gun laws, and I have yet to see a type of shooting like that around here. Of course it will make a difference in homocides throughout the country, but that's not the argument here. That Constitution is America. That is who we are. Those are our rights, and no one has the right to take them away. If they try, that will be terrorism and could start a war.

So? The founding fathers weren't right on every single issue that was handed to them. Even if it is an amendment, it's still wrong and should be changed to reflect what is best for the community today. One of the purposes of a government is to protect its citizens, and by having virtually no gun control, the US is doing the opposite. You say that the country is supposed to be run by the citizens, not the government. However, if we look at the [ Register or Signin to view external links. ] , out of the top 10 or so countries on that list, most if not all have strict gun laws. If the most democratic countries in the world can adopt strict gun laws, and still be democratic and care for their people, I can't see why the US cannot do the same.

Yeah, about the whole torturing thing, I don't see the Japanese or British governments torturing their citizens. How will taking away guns make you become a Nazi type government? I believe the US legal system is a bit more strict than that, and that's a huge exaggeration. Every single country that has undergone a transformation in gun laws, such as Canada and Australia has not dealt with a Nazi-type government. Out of all the countries that have strict gun laws, how many have ever had to deal with a fascist government? Now, according to this [ Register or Signin to view external links. ] , out of the top 6 states in terms of gun homicide rate, 4 are in the [ Register or Signin to view external links. ] . Now, not only this, but out of the bottom 20 states or so, only 2 (West Virginia and Delaware) are in the southern US.

What this means is that if the even if the south has slightly more open gun laws, it has a negative impact. The south also has some mass shootings, as proven with [ Register or Signin to view external links. ] . Um the argument is reducing the amount of homicides. If you're saving more lives, is that not a good thing? Or do you simply not care about the innocent people who are killed because of these open gun laws?

I'm sorry, but if that constitution is America, then that constitution of yours is wrong. No one has the right to take your "guns" away? I live in a country with strict gun control, and I don't care, infact, I support their decision. Like I said before, it is not your right to own a gun, and there is no reason for you to be owning a gun (other than police/army/hunting use). If you say self-defence, then again, I can show you to all the countries that have much more strict gun laws than the US and show you how much safer it is in those countries. If you try to take them away, it becomes terrorism? LOL, are you kidding me? Do you really think taking away guns will start a war? Even Australia, which was a very gun influenced culture, still saw decreases in gun violence once it revised it's gun laws, and no war was initiated there.

Lol, I have no right to own a gun? Seriously? That right was given to me by the top guys that established this country. Have you read the NDAA? The can torture, assassinate, and imprison any U.S. citizen they want without due process. During the Connecticut shooting, they managed to take out a ban that kept us from being indefinitely detentioned without a trial. This meaning now we can be imprisoned for as long as they wish without any type of trial. That itself is against our Constitution and is creating some very big controversy at the moment. We are losing are rights left and right. The government is even working to have drones within our country for surveillance purposes. Cool, you think guns are wrong so you are against them, but it doesn't mean it's right. I personally hate all the gun crimes myself, but it's the fact that it's in the Constitution and they are our rights. If I entered a country and their Constitution banned guns, I would agree with it 100% as well. It's the people that kill, not the guns and not everyone with guns. I can't argue with a country that has the right to bare arms, because it is their right. Maybe if they make handguns mandatory, maybe our crime rate would drop like Switzerland's did. If Operation Northwoods or 9/11 decides to happend again, I think the people have the right to be armed and defend themselves. The next "invasion" could be in our homeland in an all out war. Also, Wikipedia not a great, reliable source for statistics, not that I care, but just saying. This isn't about statistics, this is about what this country is. If people have a big problem with it, there are other countries to move to. I have actually thought about either Canada or England. I can't argue with a country's constitution, but I can leave if I feel worried. Also, some great and true quotes for this (by the founders and other men of their time):

We should not forget that the spark which ignited the American Revolution was caused by the British attempt to confiscate the firearms of the colonists. - Patrick Henry

"The constitutions of most of our States assert that all power is inherent in the people; that... it is their right and duty to be at all times armed." --Thomas Jefferson

To disarm the people is the best and most effectual way to enslave them. George Mason

Americans have the right and advantage of being armed unlike the citizens of other countries whose governments are afraid to trust the people with arms. James Madison

The Constitution shall never be construed to prevent the people of the United States who are peaceable citizens from keeping their own arms. Samuel Adams

The usual road to slavery is that first they take away your guns, then they take away your property, then last of all they tell you to shut up and say you are enjoying it. James A. Donald

After a shooting spree, they always want to take the guns away from the people who didn't do it. I sure as hell wouldn't want to live in a society where the only people allowed guns are the police and the military. William S. Burroughs

Look, I'm not really too familiar with the US amendment, but it can be changed and modified as society evolves and people's perceptions change.

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Ofc, I can't judge another country's constitution without knowing a lot about it, so I'm sorry about the remarks I did make about your constitution. Now, about the whole NDAA thing, that is only if they are accused of terrorism. That doesn't make it right, but similar countries that now have strict gun laws have had laws like the one that you've described in the past.

Besides, what's the point that you are trying to make? That the US will suddenly destroy their reputation and power and turn into a fascist nation? Come on, that seems really unrealistic. Also, if that were to happen, WW3 would start. That will not and can't happen just because they take away some silly guns. Remember that the US is a huge opponent of communism. I have a hard time believing that guns are the only thing that holds your nation together.

Again, even if it is in a constitution, if a constitution permitted the right to enslave any person you wanted, would you not be against that constitution? There are other crimes that are not gun-based, but in terms of weapons, guns are one of the most efficient and deadly. You can kill 20+ people before any police get there, as the recent Conneticut shooting showed us, but you can't do the same thing with a knife or blade. I'm pretty sure Switzerland has strict gun laws too. If you look at the facts, the more guns a nation has, the more gun violence there will be (in general). Why do you think that if everyone had guns, that would suddenly decrease gun violence? If anything, it would make it worse.

Also, about the various quotes at the end, um, yeah, all these other countries have strict gun laws, and their people aren't enslaved. If anything, they have more control of their country and government than the Americans, like I showed you in the Democracy Index. You say that it is your right to own a gun, and without it, the government can turn into a Nazi-type government. Yet, in the countries that you initally don't have the right to own one, people usually have more control over their government. The governments aren't afraid to trust their people with arms, they have just looked at the facts and have seen that removing guns makes a difference. If it protects their people, there's nothing bad about it. Even if it's your right to own a gun, I don't see the positive effects of owning one.

The purpose of government is to enable the people of a nation to live in safety and happiness. Government exists for the interests of the governed, not for the governors.- Thomas Edison

The U.S. isn't a third world country like most of the others, so having control over this government would be quite difficult. We are one of the most advanced, corrupt, and power hungry. We are moving towards a Nazi nation, but just in a different manner than Hitler. Hit;er used his words and power. The U.S. is using the media, tragic events, and "the fight on terror" to get us where they want. Our media is so messed up it's unreal. They can change their story on a dime without any physical evidence. It always works as well. This is most likely where you stop reading, but I'm one that believes 9/11 was set up. Just look at it's story, then look at Operation Northwoods. VERY similar situations and circumstances. Just look at 9/11's "evidence" as well. IDs and passports surviving a completely destroyed aircraft, seems legit. If slavery was in my constitution, I would think our people would rise up and take back the government and make a new constitution. If they change our gun rights, I can see where that could take place again (though I can see where it won't just because people are afraid. They talk big and bad wanting guns, but won't fight for their rights) I would fight against slavery, and I am 50/50 on guns. It's in the Constitution, so I am going to back up the people's rights. I don't understand why Switzerland having strict gun laws, but almost everyone owns a gun, has anything to do with the very little gun crimes that happen there. They are strict, but almost everyone carries a gun (mandatory.) By what you were saying, more guns equal more crime, but just not there. True, the NDAA is for terrorism, but it says any U.S. citizen of the United States. Wording is a big thing when talking about important documents. Also, I believe even terrorists have right to due process and a trial. Those are also rights under the Constitution. I know I'm throwing that out there all of the time to justify these things, but it's the doctrine of the country. Maybe I'm old fashioned. Maybe I respect too much what they wanted this country to be, and it's just not turning out that way. I'm sure this isn't the country they had in mind.

The UK, Japan, Australia, Canada, etc are first-world countries. I would say that all of them are advanced and first-world nations. As for the media, sure, there's FOX News, but there are some legitimate stations that don't do that. As for the 9/11 thing, I've heard it before, but IDK, would a country really kill it's own people? I'm pretty sure some international organization would have found out by now, and done something. Hell, if Osama didn't even do anything, and they had no proof of him being there, then why would the US kill him because of 9/11, and why would Osama accept the blame? As for Switzerland, they still have about half the guns per capita compared to the US. Also, most men there are enlisted in the militia, so they have to have guns. As well, who says that the U.S. will be the same as Switzerland if more guns come into play? Switzerland is an outlier. Besides, obviously, the same policies in Switzerland don't work in the US, nor did it work in most countries, especially countries with similar cultures to the Americans, so that's where the gun control comes in.

And yes, everyone should have the fair right to a trial. But who says that the US will ever extend that to citizens, or even regular criminals for that matter? I'm sure the UN will have something to say about that.

It's been a while, but felt like responding to this. Also, I totally respect what you are saying, but I just can't agree. I understand where you're coming from, but I just don't think it's for the best.

The US has already tried to kill it's own people before with Operation Northwoods. One man kept it from happening, and then he was assassinated later, JFK. The military called him weak for not killing his own people to blame it on the Cubans to get into Cuba. 9/11 was eerie similar to the Operation Northwoods plan, in which we got into Afghanistan and the other Middle East countries. I'm just saying it adds up perfectly. I also heard Osama actually denied it until later on, but I would also like to note that Osama looked like he was getting younger in each video he posted. Maybe he was killed and replaced with a look-alike from the government. I'm not jumping to conclusions on that one and believing it, but it's possible. The third world comment was refering to the countries that recently took control of their government in the Middle East and Africa like Libya and Egypt. I can't speak about countries like Australia, England, and Japan, but they don't seem as outgoing as ours in the sense of being in every other country's business. We are everywhere, and that makes us potential targets of something huge. I'm just saying the citizens lack of protection from intruders will be horrible. Also, I'm mainly looking at guns as protection from our own government. I don't think we could threaten our government without guns. They are very powerful people. I think we would have trouble against the government even with the guns. If America was more neutral, I would look at this a bit differently, but we are gaining new laws that are destroying our rights and privacy. That, while in wars, concerns me greatly.

i have one thing to say "guns don't kill people, people do"

it will make the black market rise if someone want's to kill someone you think they really care how they do it ?

people can make a cow crap bomb and be deadlier then a gun


guns don't need control people do.

Shadow- wrote i have one thing to say "guns don't kill people, people do"

it will make the black market rise if someone want's to kill someone you think they really care how they do it ?

people can make a cow crap bomb and be deadlier then a gun


guns don't need control people do.

I redirect you to my earlier post.

funnykidsc wrote The logic here is flawed.

AAmbitionsIsBack/Foam wrote Guns don't kill people, people kill people.

People do kill people. However, people with guns kill more people.

If someone wants to hurt a lot of people, they will have a much easier time doing so if they have a gun. Most people would not be able to successfully rob a bank by strangling every person inside the bank; it would be far easier to just shoot everyone. Additionally, the reason shootings are as devastating and as tragic as they are is because guns make killing people much faster; by the time the police arrive at the scene of a shooting, the majority of the people the gunman wanted to kill will most likely be dead.

With that said, I don't think that guns should be banned altogether, I just think that it should be much harder for people to acquire them.