ThatPandaGuy wrote

BUC-Chad wrote

No, I fully see it your way that's the thing. Coin sellers make it much easier to obtain coins and enjoy the game without having to put in the effort of having to grind out thousands of games, or trade for hours on end. There is no inflation in your

You've basically proven my point though. Coin sellers do not solely create inflation, they provide accessibility to coins that were already "on the market" in terms of being in a players account.

I think the main thing people are missing here is that EA Sports made 300 MILLION dollars last year from the sale of PACKS in FIFA 13..... Think of it.

$100 US buys 12000 FIFA Points
12000 FIFA Points BUYS approximately 120 packs.
A Pack generally produces around 1500 coins, we'll use 1000 for a conservative measure

$100 goes into $300,000,000 a total of 3,000,000 times.
3,000,000 multiplied by 120 (the total packs from 12000 Points) is 360,000,000
360 MILLION packs with an average of 1000 coins per pack is 360,000,000,000 coins approximately.

So there are approx 360,000,000,000 coins on the market from EA PACK SALES alone. Compare this to the FIFA 12 sales which was 108 million.
(We'll use 12000 FIFA Points as a reference its easier to compare)

108,000,000 / 100 = 1080000
1,080,000 x 120 = 129,600,000
129,600,000 x 1000 = 129,600,000,000

OR 36% the amount of coins that were available from PACKS in FIFA 13.

The main point here is that a significantly higher amount of people play and spend money on FIFA 14 than previous years, and it has been the case FIFA 12 = more than FIFA 11, FIFA 13, more than FIFA 12, etc, etc.

To summarize, DO coin sellers make coins more easily accessible to players, 100%. Are they the cause of the inflation and priced being significantly higher than previous iterations of the FIFA Ultimate Team series... no, they are not.

Coin sellers are not the main source of inflation, of course. The added people will surely boost coins available as well. Take into account the amount of YouTubers though that opened packs. Some YouTubers today open 50,000 FIFA Points a video. Most do about 25,000 though. That is a lot contributing. I'd say from your 36% about 30%-33% would be a more reasonable number due to YouTubers. But even according to that logic, I will say this.

If inflation was 30% then cost should be inflated 30%. Just like $2000 was a lot for a car back in the 50s.

FIFA 12:
Messi: 250k (Average at the end)x30=750k
Where did the extra almost 500k come from? Coin Sellers. All of our points are valid, which is the cause will never be known, but I think that coin sellers are unfair. I have used them when I had a card disappear and EA did not give me a refund instead of buying packs at the end.

The 36% value I pulled was how many coins were put onto the market from PACKS when comparing FIFA 13 to FIFA 12. As in the amount of coins from FIFA 12 produced from PACKS was only 36% of the amount of coins produced from PACKS in FIFA 13. My main point with this was that more than double the amount of coins were put onto the market from PACKS from EA Sports in FIFA 13 than FIFA 12.

Its really just inflation of the actual market in general, consisting of may factors like you said. You may see coin sellers as unfair, understandable, many people see Buying Coins as a "cheaters" way of playing. I personally would much rather buy the coins I need to create the ultimate team I wanted than pay for FIFA Points and receive FAR less value for my actual money in terms of coins.

Do coin sellers inflate the market, no. I don't believe so at all. Do we create a more competitive market in terms of trading etc, I'd say yes. It's your personal preference whether you choose to buy coins / buy packs / or just play with your starter packs and hope to achieve millions.

EDIT:

ThatPandaGuy wrote

MON7Y wrote People still arguing i see

I think coin sellers should stop. EA said they don't like them but aren't shutting them down. I also think they are violating ToS and could possibly get sued.

Not really arguing, more of a pretty good debate actually. Probably one of the better threads on this forum in a while in terms of actual opinions and points.

In terms of Violating TOS it's a grey area. Are we selling a product in which we do not own, sort of. It depends on how you look at it.

Our website states you're not buying the coins, you're merely paying for the service of collecting and delivering the coins to you, the coins remain the property of EA Sports. In talking to actual Lawyers, it's almost impossible to be sued for this. We're providing a service not a product.

Edit to comment on this:

xxRider702xx wrote You keep saying that they "move" coins around. But what do glitched coins do. They move coins around. Its the same thing basically.

Glitched coins might creat cards and people will still buy the the dupped card. Or you might get extra money here and there but its not as fast as buying coins. Buying coins you get those coins almost instantly compared to doing a glitch and it taking time just to actually earn any money. Either way its unfair but buying coins cause the market to rise and fall more than glitching does.

Glitched coins are developed out of nothing, they are not moving coins around, they are developed through scripts that create offline match earnings. Which basically creates the coins out of no where. So nothing is moved around, the coins are created from this instance.

Buying coins does not cause the market to rise and fall more than glitching does, case in point.... look at the consumables glitch, so many people glitch consumables the market was fluctuating significantly every hour... coin selling would not do this.

Glitching coins via consumable glitch, or the match earnings glitch inflates the market plain and simple, not to mention the legitimate avenues of inflation such as actual Match Earnings, and Pack Openings.[/quote]

The cards come from nothing, but they moeny to buy these cards came form somewhere. So my point is proven. yes its true that the cards do cause inflation, but that money came from somewhere.
The way youre saying it, is like this

i get a free gold pack from Ea and i open it. I get 2k from the pack. Thats 2k coins for me to putback into the market. These 2k coins came form no where. So in your own words. I glitched the system and im causing inflation since these 2k coins came form no where.

xxRider702xx wrote Edit to comment on this:

xxRider702xx wrote You keep saying that they "move" coins around. But what do glitched coins do. They move coins around. Its the same thing basically.

Glitched coins might creat cards and people will still buy the the dupped card. Or you might get extra money here and there but its not as fast as buying coins. Buying coins you get those coins almost instantly compared to doing a glitch and it taking time just to actually earn any money. Either way its unfair but buying coins cause the market to rise and fall more than glitching does.

Glitched coins are developed out of nothing, they are not moving coins around, they are developed through scripts that create offline match earnings. Which basically creates the coins out of no where. So nothing is moved around, the coins are created from this instance.

Buying coins does not cause the market to rise and fall more than glitching does, case in point.... look at the consumables glitch, so many people glitch consumables the market was fluctuating significantly every hour... coin selling would not do this.

Glitching coins via consumable glitch, or the match earnings glitch inflates the market plain and simple, not to mention the legitimate avenues of inflation such as actual Match Earnings, and Pack Openings.

The cards come from nothing, but they moeny to buy these cards came form somewhere. So my point is proven. yes its true that the cards do cause inflation, but that money came from somewhere.
The way youre saying it, is like this

i get a free gold pack from Ea and i open it. I get 2k from the pack. Thats 2k coins for me to putback into the market. These 2k coins came form no where. So in your own words. I glitched the system and im causing inflation since these 2k coins came form no where.[/quote]

No, that is not what I'm saying at all.... You clearly do not understand what the match earnings glitch is. The glitched coins / match earnings glitch replicates hundreds if not thousands of offline "games" per day producing an insane amount of coins. This is not done by an actual human, but it is done through a script / method that has been created by these individuals to maximize profits.

Glitched coins do not move coins around... they produce them at an extremely high daily amount out of no where. Sure your 2k coins that came from the free pack will add to the marketplace, however a creation of coins like this is generally supplemented by the LOSS of coins / elimination of coins from the marketplace when someone buys PACKS with their coins. A healthy offset is produced and therefore any inflation from those coins are negated.

In terms of the glitched coins, the quantity is so vast that it is almost impossible to negate them which leads to inflation. These coins are not being moved around as coins that already exist in the game, these coins are produced through glitches and are basically newly created coins entering the marketplace at a high quantity on an almost daily basis.

BUC-Chad wrote

xxRider702xx wrote Edit to comment on this:

xxRider702xx wrote You keep saying that they "move" coins around. But what do glitched coins do. They move coins around. Its the same thing basically.

Glitched coins might creat cards and people will still buy the the dupped card. Or you might get extra money here and there but its not as fast as buying coins. Buying coins you get those coins almost instantly compared to doing a glitch and it taking time just to actually earn any money. Either way its unfair but buying coins cause the market to rise and fall more than glitching does.

Glitched coins are developed out of nothing, they are not moving coins around, they are developed through scripts that create offline match earnings. Which basically creates the coins out of no where. So nothing is moved around, the coins are created from this instance.

Buying coins does not cause the market to rise and fall more than glitching does, case in point.... look at the consumables glitch, so many people glitch consumables the market was fluctuating significantly every hour... coin selling would not do this.

Glitching coins via consumable glitch, or the match earnings glitch inflates the market plain and simple, not to mention the legitimate avenues of inflation such as actual Match Earnings, and Pack Openings.

The cards come from nothing, but they moeny to buy these cards came form somewhere. So my point is proven. yes its true that the cards do cause inflation, but that money came from somewhere.
The way youre saying it, is like this

i get a free gold pack from Ea and i open it. I get 2k from the pack. Thats 2k coins for me to putback into the market. These 2k coins came form no where. So in your own words. I glitched the system and im causing inflation since these 2k coins came form no where.

No, that is not what I'm saying at all.... You clearly do not understand what the match earnings glitch is. The glitched coins / match earnings glitch replicates hundreds if not thousands of offline "games" per day producing an insane amount of coins. This is not done by an actual human, but it is done through a script / method that has been created by these individuals to maximize profits.

Glitched coins do not move coins around... they produce them at an extremely high daily amount out of no where. Sure your 2k coins that came from the free pack will add to the marketplace, however a creation of coins like this is generally supplemented by the LOSS of coins / elimination of coins from the marketplace when someone buys PACKS with their coins. A healthy offset is produced and therefore any inflation from those coins are negated.

In terms of the glitched coins, the quantity is so vast that it is almost impossible to negate them which leads to inflation. These coins are not being moved around as coins that already exist in the game, these coins are produced through glitches and are basically newly created coins entering the marketplace at a high quantity on an almost daily basis.[/quote]

I see everyones point hear and you have influenced me, but from your last post you said "In terms of the glitched coins, the quantity is so vast that it is almost impossible to negate them which leads to inflation."

Now look at this: Instead of that ONE PERSON having those GLITCHED COINS, the guy SELLS THEM TO A COIN VENDOR and they DISTRIBUTE THE GLITCHED COINS.

Now from my statement, we can interpret two things:
1. There are glitched coins being sold.
2. Those glitched coins are being distributed.

Lets go deeper.

Maybe coin sellers are not DIRECTLY CAUSING INFLATION, but SPEEDING INFLATION UP A DRASTIC AMOUNT.

I think I found our answer.

P.S. The caps are not because I am being a douchebag, but for me to help clearly state the point of the sentences.

ThatPandaGuy wrote

BUC-Chad wrote

xxRider702xx wrote Edit to comment on this:

xxRider702xx wrote You keep saying that they "move" coins around. But what do glitched coins do. They move coins around. Its the same thing basically.

Glitched coins might creat cards and people will still buy the the dupped card. Or you might get extra money here and there but its not as fast as buying coins. Buying coins you get those coins almost instantly compared to doing a glitch and it taking time just to actually earn any money. Either way its unfair but buying coins cause the market to rise and fall more than glitching does.

Glitched coins are developed out of nothing, they are not moving coins around, they are developed through scripts that create offline match earnings. Which basically creates the coins out of no where. So nothing is moved around, the coins are created from this instance.

Buying coins does not cause the market to rise and fall more than glitching does, case in point.... look at the consumables glitch, so many people glitch consumables the market was fluctuating significantly every hour... coin selling would not do this.

Glitching coins via consumable glitch, or the match earnings glitch inflates the market plain and simple, not to mention the legitimate avenues of inflation such as actual Match Earnings, and Pack Openings.

The cards come from nothing, but they moeny to buy these cards came form somewhere. So my point is proven. yes its true that the cards do cause inflation, but that money came from somewhere.
The way youre saying it, is like this

i get a free gold pack from Ea and i open it. I get 2k from the pack. Thats 2k coins for me to putback into the market. These 2k coins came form no where. So in your own words. I glitched the system and im causing inflation since these 2k coins came form no where.

No, that is not what I'm saying at all.... You clearly do not understand what the match earnings glitch is. The glitched coins / match earnings glitch replicates hundreds if not thousands of offline "games" per day producing an insane amount of coins. This is not done by an actual human, but it is done through a script / method that has been created by these individuals to maximize profits.

Glitched coins do not move coins around... they produce them at an extremely high daily amount out of no where. Sure your 2k coins that came from the free pack will add to the marketplace, however a creation of coins like this is generally supplemented by the LOSS of coins / elimination of coins from the marketplace when someone buys PACKS with their coins. A healthy offset is produced and therefore any inflation from those coins are negated.

In terms of the glitched coins, the quantity is so vast that it is almost impossible to negate them which leads to inflation. These coins are not being moved around as coins that already exist in the game, these coins are produced through glitches and are basically newly created coins entering the marketplace at a high quantity on an almost daily basis.

I see everyones point hear and you have influenced me, but from your last post you said "In terms of the glitched coins, the quantity is so vast that it is almost impossible to negate them which leads to inflation."

Now look at this: Instead of that ONE PERSON having those GLITCHED COINS, the guy SELLS THEM TO A COIN VENDOR and they DISTRIBUTE THE GLITCHED COINS.

Now from my statement, we can interpret two things:
1. There are glitched coins being sold.
2. Those glitched coins are being distributed.

Lets go deeper.

Maybe coin sellers are not DIRECTLY CAUSING INFLATION, but SPEEDING INFLATION UP A DRASTIC AMOUNT.

I think I found our answer.

P.S. The caps are not because I am being a douchebag, but for me to help clearly state the point of the sentences.[/quote]

No worries on the caps, it makes sense.

Having first-hand knowledge of the actual coin selling industry / market, I can definitely say that some coin shops run specifically off off the glitched coins. A lot of the forum "coin-shops" are considered to be glitched coins.

Although not directly inflating the market, coin shops do make gaining access to the vast amount of coins easier. Unfortunately the match earnings glitch has been around since FIFA 12, however it hasn't been anywhere as badly abused as it has this year. This is definitely the biggest factor in terms of inflation within the marketplace. Sure selling coins provides access to these glitched coins (if the sellers buy them), however they will leak into the market either way. I do agree that it does somewhat expedite the process.

It's primarily the glitching / abuse of these glitches that causes this inflation. Although you do have to look at the sheer volume of players playing Ultimate Team, that alone has brought a ton of coins onto the marketplace that weren't actually there with FIFA 12. (I use fifa 12 because 13 was pretty bad with coins) With these coins on the market, the value of the coins decreases so it costs more for better players.

Good discussion though, glad the thread has been kept open and not immediately closed / deleted.

Excellent discussion and it's nice to see a very civilized and intelligent debate. Both of you have very great points and i'm very impressed with the extent of each of your arguments.

However, with that being said, BUC-Chad let me ask you a question. If coin-sellers did not exist, say there was no way virtually possible to buy coins to gain advantage. Instead you needed to earn coins by trading and playing the game. Do you think we would see Ronaldo selling for 1.7-2M? Ribery/Bale for 860K Ibra/Messi upwards 1M?

I feel that the answer is no, they would be a lot more affordable and although still high in cost, but more reasonably in reach of purchasing.

If we are unable to buy coins, then we are unable to afford anything over 800K realistically unless you are an excellent trader, which there is a select few. You can't learn to trade overnight, but you can sure become a millionaire within minutes using a coin seller.

My point is, with no coin sellers there would be a lot less people with millions in this game and in turn, it would force players who are lucky enough to pack Ronaldo or expensive players to drop their price to a more reasonable offer. If i were to get Romario or a legend, I would leave a crazy offer up for days because I know there's people who glitch the coins somehow or are sponsored by a coin source to obtain endless coins.

BUC-Chad wrote

ThatPandaGuy wrote

BUC-Chad wrote

xxRider702xx wrote Edit to comment on this:

xxRider702xx wrote You keep saying that they "move" coins around. But what do glitched coins do. They move coins around. Its the same thing basically.

Glitched coins might creat cards and people will still buy the the dupped card. Or you might get extra money here and there but its not as fast as buying coins. Buying coins you get those coins almost instantly compared to doing a glitch and it taking time just to actually earn any money. Either way its unfair but buying coins cause the market to rise and fall more than glitching does.

Glitched coins are developed out of nothing, they are not moving coins around, they are developed through scripts that create offline match earnings. Which basically creates the coins out of no where. So nothing is moved around, the coins are created from this instance.

Buying coins does not cause the market to rise and fall more than glitching does, case in point.... look at the consumables glitch, so many people glitch consumables the market was fluctuating significantly every hour... coin selling would not do this.

Glitching coins via consumable glitch, or the match earnings glitch inflates the market plain and simple, not to mention the legitimate avenues of inflation such as actual Match Earnings, and Pack Openings.

The cards come from nothing, but they moeny to buy these cards came form somewhere. So my point is proven. yes its true that the cards do cause inflation, but that money came from somewhere.
The way youre saying it, is like this

i get a free gold pack from Ea and i open it. I get 2k from the pack. Thats 2k coins for me to putback into the market. These 2k coins came form no where. So in your own words. I glitched the system and im causing inflation since these 2k coins came form no where.

No, that is not what I'm saying at all.... You clearly do not understand what the match earnings glitch is. The glitched coins / match earnings glitch replicates hundreds if not thousands of offline "games" per day producing an insane amount of coins. This is not done by an actual human, but it is done through a script / method that has been created by these individuals to maximize profits.

Glitched coins do not move coins around... they produce them at an extremely high daily amount out of no where. Sure your 2k coins that came from the free pack will add to the marketplace, however a creation of coins like this is generally supplemented by the LOSS of coins / elimination of coins from the marketplace when someone buys PACKS with their coins. A healthy offset is produced and therefore any inflation from those coins are negated.

In terms of the glitched coins, the quantity is so vast that it is almost impossible to negate them which leads to inflation. These coins are not being moved around as coins that already exist in the game, these coins are produced through glitches and are basically newly created coins entering the marketplace at a high quantity on an almost daily basis.

I see everyones point hear and you have influenced me, but from your last post you said "In terms of the glitched coins, the quantity is so vast that it is almost impossible to negate them which leads to inflation."

Now look at this: Instead of that ONE PERSON having those GLITCHED COINS, the guy SELLS THEM TO A COIN VENDOR and they DISTRIBUTE THE GLITCHED COINS.

Now from my statement, we can interpret two things:
1. There are glitched coins being sold.
2. Those glitched coins are being distributed.

Lets go deeper.

Maybe coin sellers are not DIRECTLY CAUSING INFLATION, but SPEEDING INFLATION UP A DRASTIC AMOUNT.

I think I found our answer.

P.S. The caps are not because I am being a douchebag, but for me to help clearly state the point of the sentences.

No worries on the caps, it makes sense.

Having first-hand knowledge of the actual coin selling industry / market, I can definitely say that some coin shops run specifically off off the glitched coins. A lot of the forum "coin-shops" are considered to be glitched coins.

Although not directly inflating the market, coin shops do make gaining access to the vast amount of coins easier. Unfortunately the match earnings glitch has been around since FIFA 12, however it hasn't been anywhere as badly abused as it has this year. This is definitely the biggest factor in terms of inflation within the marketplace. Sure selling coins provides access to these glitched coins (if the sellers buy them), however they will leak into the market either way. I do agree that it does somewhat expedite the process.

It's primarily the glitching / abuse of these glitches that causes this inflation. Although you do have to look at the sheer volume of players playing Ultimate Team, that alone has brought a ton of coins onto the marketplace that weren't actually there with FIFA 12. (I use fifa 12 because 13 was pretty bad with coins) With these coins on the market, the value of the coins decreases so it costs more for better players.

Good discussion though, glad the thread has been kept open and not immediately closed / deleted.[/quote]

It's nice to see a discussion like this. It doesn't make the forum dead. I may have to use this in a paper I write for my business and finance classes. I must ask though what vendor do you work for?

X-Pac wrote Excellent discussion and it's nice to see a very civilized and intelligent debate. Both of you have very great points and i'm very impressed with the extent of each of your arguments.

However, with that being said, BUC-Chad let me ask you a question. If coin-sellers did not exist, say there was no way virtually possible to buy coins to gain advantage. Instead you needed to earn coins by trading and playing the game. Do you think we would see Ronaldo selling for 1.7-2M? Ribery/Bale for 860K Ibra/Messi upwards 1M?

I feel that the answer is no, they would be a lot more affordable and although still high in cost, but more reasonably in reach of purchasing.

If we are unable to buy coins, then we are unable to afford anything over 800K realistically unless you are an excellent trader, which there is a select few. You can't learn to trade overnight, but you can sure become a millionaire within minutes using a coin seller.

My point is, with no coin sellers there would be a lot less people with millions in this game and in turn, it would force players who are lucky enough to pack Ronaldo or expensive players to drop their price to a more reasonable offer. If i were to get Romario or a legend, I would leave a crazy offer up for days because I know there's people who glitch the coins somehow or are sponsored by a coin source to obtain endless coins.

That's the point I made earlier. Coin selling websites may not be the direct cause of inflation, but they certainly have an impact on it. Coin selling websites have made it so that a larger sum of coins can be easily accessed with a simple click of a button (and an exchange of currency). If they weren't around, and people had to earn their coins legitimately, we'd see players like Messi and Ronaldo a lot cheaper than what they are now.

That's the point I was getting at. Coin sellers should be completely shut down and banned. I'm pretty sure it's against EA's term of service too.

X-Pac wrote Excellent discussion and it's nice to see a very civilized and intelligent debate. Both of you have very great points and i'm very impressed with the extent of each of your arguments.

However, with that being said, BUC-Chad let me ask you a question. If coin-sellers did not exist, say there was no way virtually possible to buy coins to gain advantage. Instead you needed to earn coins by trading and playing the game. Do you think we would see Ronaldo selling for 1.7-2M? Ribery/Bale for 860K Ibra/Messi upwards 1M?

I feel that the answer is no, they would be a lot more affordable and although still high in cost, but more reasonably in reach of purchasing.

If we are unable to buy coins, then we are unable to afford anything over 800K realistically unless you are an excellent trader, which there is a select few. You can't learn to trade overnight, but you can sure become a millionaire within minutes using a coin seller.

My point is, with no coin sellers there would be a lot less people with millions in this game and in turn, it would force players who are lucky enough to pack Ronaldo or expensive players to drop their price to a more reasonable offer. If i were to get Romario or a legend, I would leave a crazy offer up for days because I know there's people who glitch the coins somehow or are sponsored by a coin source to obtain endless coins.

To be honest. The prices MAY be a little bit lower, but you also have to recognize that this isn't FIFA 12 anymore, the market is MASSIVE in comparison to back then. As I stated earlier in terms of total coins from just EA PACK sales, it was approximately 360,000,000,000 coins entered into the market in comparison to the 129,600,000,000 that was entered into the market with FIFA 12. So do I think the prices would be quite high, yes they would be.

Coin selling is one avenue of gaining coins, the next and most popular avenue is definitely autobuying (where we trade to gain almost ALL of our coins on my website) With autobuying it easily creates that constant revenue stream if you know how to do it correctly. Set it up, go to sleep at night, wake up with a ridiculous profit. Greatest profit I've made on ONE card is 875k. Greatest profit I've made in one full 24-hour day is 2.9million coins.

I do agree with you there would be less people with millions, primarily those who buy the millions of coins from sites like my own, however there are definitely other avenues to gain fortunes on FIFA. Without the coin sites, players would try to move to other ways to "get rich quick", primarily autobuying... then the debate will go on again about autobuying ruining the game, etc. (I personally don't think autobuying ruins the market at all, it helps to sustain it, but that's another debate entirely)

ThatPandaGuy wrote
It's nice to see a discussion like this. It doesn't make the forum dead. I may have to use this in a paper I write for my business and finance classes. I must ask though what vendor do you work for?

I along with a partner run our own website BuyUltimateCoins. We try to take a different approach to buying / selling coins than most of the coin websites within the market. It's played to our advantage quite well. Starting up last year with FIFA 13 after monitoring the markets and getting a better understanding of what needed to be done to properly launch and sustain a coin business for FIFA.

This topic is pointless now... The demand for coins is so high that coin sellers are going to stay... With over 1000's of people buying coins a day it would be very hard for ea to keep it under control and ban coin selling.