steffess92 wrote

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Lecter wrote

steffess92 wrote

Lecter wrote

steffess92 wrote I have to disagree, humans should be prioritized over animals because 1. They live a hell of a lot longer. and 2. They have the potential to make things happen and do good things for the world. Let's face it, animals are wild and don't know right from wrong.

But what I DO HATE to see is cruelty to animals, I would much rather see the human that's being cruel to animals die rather than the poor defenseless animal.

Galapagos tortoises can live for 170 years.
Should they be prioritized over us?

Potential doesn't make a difference.
I could have the potential to become brilliant at playing the piano, if I don't act on that potential then it might as well have not been there.
The fact that we don't act on our potential, and are still stuck fighting over silly things when we could put all of our energy into working for the future, is why we are not important, or different from animals.

LOL It seems to me that you just hate the world in general, please don't commit suicide and seek professional help.

ON topic: having the potential to be a brilliant piano player doesn't make the world a better place, if you read my post properly you would realize that; and as for tortoises being prioritized that's just silly, I meant animals and general; NOT one specific species...

God... People these days, you contradicted yourself by ranting on people "fighting over silly little things", that my friend is A SILLY LITTLE THING.

I don't hate the world in general, I hate what humans are doing to it.
To me, insanity is looking at a rainforest and thinking, 'What a beautiful wasteland this is going to be.'

The potential to be a piano player was something called an example.
I could have said the potential to be the world's best astrophysicist, chemist, the world's best economic company CEO, the world's best anti-animal cruelty activist, and my point would still be valid.
Humankind doesn't act on the potential that it has, just like if I didn't act on the potential that I had to become any one of those things ^ then the potential would matter.

Animal cruelty and humans destroying the planet is a silly little thing?
Sorry, I'll just go and invent interstellar space travel over a cup of coffee, bye.

No... I didn't say animal cruelty or humans destroying the planet is "a silly little thing" your taking the whole argument out of context to make it look more in your favor.

I said your tortoise and piano player arguments where silly little things in comparison to what I said, 'two silly examples' is a better way to put it. You still massively contradicted yourself, there's no escaping that with your lengthy andf well written comebacks.

You should be an author

Thank you, that's actually one of my goals.
Anyone who has understood my examples knows what I'm talking about, if you sincerely don't then I suggest you re-read them.
When you can point out a flaw in them other than 'silly' then I'll give it another go :]

-Pawn wrote

Mensch wrote All life has value. Some things tend to be worth more than others.

Who has the right to say that one life form has more value than another? I value all life. Ants are life, theoretically they can have just as much value as us. Not all people can agree with that, but I sure believe it.

Believing something doesn't make it true. Some ants are worth more than some people. It's not about the species, but the contribution that the life form makes.

How can we be better than "Animals" if we are animals ourselves? I Treat anyone the way they treat me so if my dogs behave well towards me which they do i behave back towards them.

Lecter wrote
Thank you, that's actually one of my goals.
Anyone who has understood my examples knows what I'm talking about, if you sincerely don't then I suggest you re-read them.
When you can point out a flaw in them other than 'silly' then I'll give it another go :]

That's the thing... The only flaw I see in your two examples is silly compared to what I was saying/meaning. I give up lol; this is indeed a silly argument that will have no winner and benefit no-one.

Good luck with becoming an author if it really is one of your goals... not that you'll need it; you really do have a gift with your way of words, your very smart indeed; I'll give you that much albeit we disagree.

I honestly treat all life equally... Except for spiders.

Anyway... I like to think that humans and animals are the same thing... In a sense it is true. One man said that we "evolved" from apes like millions of years ago.. So doesn't that make us animals too? We aren't that different from animals.

I think People are NOT better than animals. But I can see why other people actually think so..

Well think about it though most young children dont have the strength to kill another child on the other hand a dog could kill a child

Honestly, scientifically speaking, humans are better than most animals. We're on top of the food chain, and have the most complex social and civil structures. I personally believe that animals can be replaced. I don't think we should purposely mistreat them because they can be replaced, but I'm not going to become a vegetarian to save a couple cows.

Humans are better than animals, but that doesn't mean we should mistreat other animals. If animals attack humans, odds are they're going to get put down. It's just survival of the fittest...

USN wrote Honestly, scientifically speaking, humans are better than most animals. We're on top of the food chain, and have the most complex social and civil structures. I personally believe that animals can be replaced. I don't think we should purposely mistreat them because they can be replaced, but I'm not going to become a vegetarian to save a couple cows.

Humans are better than animals, but that doesn't mean we should mistreat other animals. If animals attack humans, odds are they're going to get put down. It's just survival of the fittest...

Very well said couldnt agree more

-Pawn wrote

Mensch wrote All life has value. Some things tend to be worth more than others.

Who has the right to say that one life form has more value than another? I value all life. Ants are life, theoretically they can have just as much value as us. Not all people can agree with that, but I sure believe it.

so you treat stepping on an ant the same as murder? that spider you just killed in your house, well that is murder time to go to jail.

Lecter wrote

DNF wrote

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Lecter wrote

Silver wrote And I disagree with you Lecter. This earth was put here to be support life. We shouldn't stop breeding because it would make Earth better. Earth was made for living animals to enjoy life. Why waste that?

I'm getting the impression that you believe the Earth and humans were created by a deity, if I'm wrong about that please correct me, but you said 'made' as though the Earth has a purpose.
I don't believe that the Earth has a purpose, I think it formed at just the right point in space where it could support life. That's it.
I don't believe that there is anything special about that life, and there is an abundance of everything but enjoyment in the natural world.

fknvlink wrote Humans are better then every animal in every way. That is not to say we shouldn't punish people for the mistreating of animals tho. We are the top of the food chain and if a certain animal can't handle that then maybe it is better off not existing. If you think that we are a disgrace... [yadayadayada something about a bridge.]

ok, the earth wasn't put here it was created by chances. secondly how are we not better then animals. We are smarter. I am talking on a species level not a personal one.

Humans aren't better than every animal in every way.
Run faster than a Cheetah, see better than a Hawk, swim faster than a dolphin.
The only reason that we are 'better' is because we use technology, and right there, I think is the mistake.
When an animal develops the cognitive ability, and population size, needed for them to destroy the planet looking for resources how can that not be seen as a mistake?

Cokes wrote All evolution is by chance so whether it's a mistake or not I guess is a matter of opinion. But as far as humankind, I'd say we've come pretty far in terms of how we can in society. Back in ancient times we were not very nice people and we did some unthinkable acts that would not be acceptable in today's society.

Evolution isn't exactly by chance, it's species' ability to change to fit their environment over a large amount of time.
This is why I disagree with people [not you] when they say that, "Animals which can't survive are better off dying out" We are at the point now in which if that were true then every animal on Earth would be extinct because nobody can match us.

Humans are off the evolutionary scale, while it is still affecting us, we are more heavily influenced by the development of technology, but humans really aren't that smart.
It took us 90 Billion lives to work out that bacteria existed.
It took us 60 Billion lives to invent the wheel.
Over the past 500 years we've had a technological explosion of one obvious leap to the next, and we have the audacity to stand up on top of it and call ourselves better than everything else.

Humans aren't that civilized, in Western society we are mainly quelled by the laws imposed on us.
Like I've said though, if you take people out of society then our true nature shines through.
Just look at Ukraine, or any country in the Middle East.
If humans are so innately civilized then why is this happening?
It's because we aren't.

If the only reason that we can be nice to one another is because society says so then how can we act like we're so much better than every other animal on Earth?

If humans weren't civilised then god almighty why is the world not a anarchy ridden place. Society is what we conform to, radicalism and extreme cases suggest that we aren't nice to each other, the rest of the world gets along in harmony.

As for your Ukraine part; comes to cowardice, fear of a ruler. Not because the whole country is a bunch of beans who are war hungry.

As for the intelligence of humans, I completely disagree with your statement about our intelligence. We are the most intelligent species, until there is another species capable of what we are the point you made is nulled. Yes, cheetahs run faster than humans, that is evolution; "Survival of the fittest". This comes form the point that cheetahs evolved to be fast to catch their prey. Giraffes have long necks to reach food from a greater height. The list goes on and on.

Oh how I would love to live in your world.
It's all puppy dogs and rainbows isn't it?
Please look outside, the world is not a nice place, and that is even with an overarching morality, whether it be through society or religion, I would absolutely hate to see the world without either of them making people be nice to one another.

The Ukraine part was actually to show that there is conflict in our nature, not the reasons why it's happening, that's another topic entirely.

You can't say that we are intelligent because no other creature can tell you otherwise, intelligent is something that we have defined ourselves as.
Neil DeGrasse Tyson uses the example of the difference between a Chimp and a human being about 1 and a half percent, that's the difference in DNA between them and us, so all of our intelligence that goes beyond what they can do is in that 1.5%, a 1.5% difference takes us from stacking boxes on top of one another to building the Hubble telescope.
Imagine if an alien race came along and, back on their planet, they had a race of creatures with around the same intelligence as us, but the aliens were 1.5% more intelligent than they are.

We would be like Chimps to this race, of course we see ourselves as intelligent, we have nothing to compare ourselves to in terms of cognitive problem solving except a Chimp, and occasionally a Dolphin.

My point about the Cheetah was that animals can do things better than us, it would be nice if you read my posts in context with what I'm replying to.
Survival of the fittest doesn't work any more if the Cheetah is running after you, about to catch you, and you turn around and use a gun to shoot it.
Ever since we started sharpening sticks into spears, that is where evolution ended, and something else began, and for the past 200,000 years that something else has turned this planet into a nightmare, that is why I believe humankind was a mistake.

Of course the world isn't a nice place, that really doesn't take anyone with a high school education to know? Adding alien life into the argument is pointless, I need not reply to that.

The cheetah point; if you use the tools you have to your advantage then how is that a problem, as a human we are typically stronger than the being itself, we lack the speed and agility which is where they prove fatal to us. We use the tool of our imagination to defeat the cheetah, as such we are a more intelligible species...

Trying to belittle me with remarks about how you see my viewpoint won't work on me, no matter how many up votes you get from people sharing your view.

I think the argument has reached it's pinnacle here, it is one view point versus the other and I see no point further debating what neither of us can prove, I salute your intelligence