Rhetoric wrote

Heresy wrote

Rhetoric wrote

Heresy wrote Just another case of the tail wagging the dog !.

So what happens if a white guy goes onto a red indian reservation and shoots a whole bunch of it's residents while wearing a stars and stripes t-shirt ???..,Would they ban the stars and stripes ?.

Or is it only one particular race that can be the victim of racism in America ?.

This debate has been going on since long before Dylann Roof shot up the church.
That event was just the trigger which brought the issue into the public eye.

and your analogy is faulty. There is nothing about the US flag or what is represents which says that Red Indians shouldn't be alive.
The Confederate flag was flown by people who actively endorsed and fought for slavery.

Dylann Roof wearing it exemplified that belief, someone wearing US flag top during a terrorist attack says nothing about his beliefs when it comes to racial issues.

Fair point !!..
I accept that my comment was a little shallow.
But your a little off on the US flag.
The stars and stripes was flown while Americans wiped many of the red indian tribes of the face of the planet.(How can anybody say that killing Indians to make way for the white man was not racial?).
At the end of the day a flag is a flag and nothing more ,It's the people and their perspective of it that turns it into something racial.
We can not deny or bury our history ,We can only learn from it and hope to not make the same mistakes.

I defer to the wisdom of Yin and something he said on another thread about this.
The Confederate flag represents something which is now gone, it can't improve on its reputation because it is set in history.
The stars and stripes can still improve on what it stands for, there is still time for it to change, or add, new values.

Damn !!..,Good answer .
I bow to your wisdom on this subject.

Refugees wrote You people are stupid, the confederate flag Represents the south fighting to keep slavery alive. Thats all to say you guy im in the 11th grade and you f*cking idoits still think its a heritage lmfao. Thats sad i bet your family told you to believe that dumb sh*t

I guess since you only want to point out one thing in the flag history, than the American flag represents stone cold killers with no remorse based on what we did in Heroshima and Nagisaki, or maybe it represents racism based on segregation, perhaps it represents thevery based on all the land we stole from the indians. I can go on all day.

My point is, you can't just take one thing from a flags history and say that is what it represents. Perhaps you should brush up on your history.

If you want to go on the premises that the confederates where racist, then why did the confederate Congress specified that black soldiers were to receive the same pay as the white soldiers?

Do some research on the confederacy and come back to me. Also, don't come back to me saying how they all owned slaves, because the north did too.

002 wrote

Refugees wrote You people are stupid, the confederate flag Represents the south fighting to keep slavery alive. Thats all to say you guy im in the 11th grade and you f*cking idoits still think its a heritage lmfao. Thats sad i bet your family told you to believe that dumb sh*t

I guess since you only want to point out one thing in the flag history, than the American flag represents stone cold killers with no remorse based on what we did in Heroshima and Nagisaki, or maybe it represents racism based on segregation, perhaps it represents thevery based on all the land we stole from the indians. I can go on all day.

My point is, you can't just take one thing from a flags history and say that is what it represents. Perhaps you should brush up on your history.

If you want to go on the premises that the confederates where racist, then why did the confederate Congress specified that black soldiers were to receive the same pay as the white soldiers?

Do some research on the confederacy and come back to me. Also, don't come back to me saying how they all owned slaves, because the north did too.

this was over when this was posted

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Some of you that might recognize me on this site might remember how my avatar has had a confederate flag from 2012-2015. I am from North Carolina and a southerner. For a long time I believed that it represented heritage and southern pride. I have changed my stance and am now against it. I will explain why.

-The flag represented a unrecognized country that committed treason on the US.
-It is not even the real flag of the Confederacy
-Between 1865 and the 1920s it was rare to see the flag until the second rise of the KKK
-It represents "The South" and may I remind you what the South is known for
-The flag did not appear on southern government owned property until the Civil Rights Movement
-The Confederacy was fighting for the right to own slavery in the first place and started a war killing hundreds of thousands of Americans so that a few hundred plantation owners in the south could keep their cheap labor at the expense of some kids life

If you want to fly the flag your front yard, that is your right under the first amendment. But a flag that for most of America represents hate, discrimination, slavery, treason and bigotry should not be flying over public land in front of a capital building. The argument of southern heritage is a lie that you have been fed and bought. Take the flag down and put it where it belongs, a museum.

About what you said about the US ya it had a lot of bad things in its history but it is the current country I live in and we try to learn and fix the bad things. We are trying to fix the fact a flag that has been used by white supremacist organizations since the 1920s has been on public land for over 60 years. We are trying to insure that all people should be able to love who they want and be together as they please because this is supposed to be free country. Over a hundred years ago we drove native people from their lands and in the 1970s tried to sterilize some of these people. Today we try to give them scholarships and allow them to govern their own lands in designated territories. We have invaded a country in the last ten years and it led to the deaths of hundreds of thousands of civilians. Now many of the people who supported that war want to keep the confederate flag up. The country has made mistakes and wishes to improve. It once tried to get rid of slavery that it had for hundreds of years, but some in the south thought otherwise. Lastly I doubt the US would ban its own flag but I don't have a problem removing the flag of traitors from public land.

002 wrote

Refugees wrote You people are stupid, the confederate flag Represents the south fighting to keep slavery alive. Thats all to say you guy im in the 11th grade and you f*cking idoits still think its a heritage lmfao. Thats sad i bet your family told you to believe that dumb sh*t

I guess since you only want to point out one thing in the flag history, than the American flag represents stone cold killers with no remorse based on what we did in Heroshima and Nagisaki, or maybe it represents racism based on segregation, perhaps it represents thevery based on all the land we stole from the indians. I can go on all day.

My point is, you can't just take one thing from a flags history and say that is what it represents. Perhaps you should brush up on your history.

If you want to go on the premises that the confederates where racist, then why did the confederate Congress specified that black soldiers were to receive the same pay as the white soldiers?

Do some research on the confederacy and come back to me. Also, don't come back to me saying how they all owned slaves, because the north did too.

Yes the US has done many horrible things in the past few hundred years. But the confederacy is gone and dead. Now that flag was taken up by some white supremacists in the 1920s and some racist politicians put it on public land as a sign of intimidation during the civil rights movement. It was not even the confederate flag in the first place.

Also were you just denying that the confederates were racists? With the black soldiers they made the 1st Louisiana Native Guard in 1861 and it was disbanded in early 1862 without seeing combat. The unit was made for propaganda and many of its members fled the south and joined the union army. In early 1865, Robert E. Lee desperately requested some black slaves to enlist for their freedom in exchange. They were not paid and only a few hundred enlisted before the war ended.

Beet wrote

002 wrote

Refugees wrote You people are stupid, the confederate flag Represents the south fighting to keep slavery alive. Thats all to say you guy im in the 11th grade and you f*cking idoits still think its a heritage lmfao. Thats sad i bet your family told you to believe that dumb sh*t

I guess since you only want to point out one thing in the flag history, than the American flag represents stone cold killers with no remorse based on what we did in Heroshima and Nagisaki, or maybe it represents racism based on segregation, perhaps it represents thevery based on all the land we stole from the indians. I can go on all day.

My point is, you can't just take one thing from a flags history and say that is what it represents. Perhaps you should brush up on your history.

If you want to go on the premises that the confederates where racist, then why did the confederate Congress specified that black soldiers were to receive the same pay as the white soldiers?

Do some research on the confederacy and come back to me. Also, don't come back to me saying how they all owned slaves, because the north did too.

Yes the US has done many horrible things in the past few hundred years. But the confederacy is gone and dead. Now that flag was taken up by some white supremacists in the 1920s and some racist politicians put it on public land as a sign of intimidation during the civil rights movement. It was not even the confederate flag in the first place.

Also were you just denying that the confederates were racists? With the black soldiers they made the 1st Louisiana Native Guard in 1861 and it was disbanded in early 1862 without seeing combat. The unit was made for propaganda and many of its members fled the south and joined the union army. In early 1865, Robert E. Lee desperately requested some black slaves to enlist for their freedom in exchange. They were not paid and only a few hundred enlisted before the war ended.

A white Union private made thirteen dollars a month; his black counterpart made seven dollars until Congress rectified the discrepancy in 1864. A Confederate private ostensibly made eleven dollars a month, but often went long stretches with no pay at all.

All countries have their racist people. Look at all the people in America who are racist against Candaians, Mexicans, Iraqis, and all other nationalities.

I am good friends With Chris Singleton which his mother was killed in the south Carolina shooting and he told me when I asked him about it "The flag didn't kill my mother " and he said he had no problem with it as I have no problem with it.

xblindmanxx wrote I am good friends With Chris Singleton which his mother was killed in the south Carolina shooting and he told me when I asked him about it "The flag didn't kill my mother " and he said he had no problem with it as I have no problem with it.

While he raises an interesting point I can't help but see a relation to the 'Scientist X agrees with me so you're wrong' type of argument you see in evolution debates.
An appeal to authority doesn't make the point any more true, or false.

The flag didn't kill his mother, no, but it propagates a culture of racism and violence against blacks.
It's no secret that the flag rose to prominence and is still prominent among members of the KKK - and more unaffiliated racists - alike.
Dylann Roof thought flags were of great importance, seen burning and spitting on the US flag while venerating the Confederate flag.

I do think your friend is right though. The flag is a small part of a much larger issue, and while I still believe it should have been removed as a common courtesy there are far more influential ways in which people can combat racism.