Lavish wrote I'm genuinely curious about the people who are proud of their confederate roots and use the phrase "Heritage not hate".

The confederates lost. They're losers. It's like proudly waving a white surrender flag.

It's not about who won and who lost. If you're going to get rid of your roots because they lost, then YOU'RE the loser.

It's like having a swastika on the side of the reichstag.

"But the confederates didn't ONLY fight for slavery"

And the Nazi's didn't ONLY fight for genocide.

"But it's our heritage"

Your ancestors didn't care about the rights and freedoms of African Americans.
Why do you expect people to respect them and have a symbol of their culture fly on the side of government property?

You wouldn't accept that argument from neo-Nazi's, so why do you expect people to accept it for you?

"But you can't seriously compare the confederate states to Nazi's and us to Neo-Nazi's"

Because slavery is so much more morally acceptable than genocide. No, they are both morally abhorrent.
As for you modern day Americans who are so proud of that flag, it is exactly the same as a Neo-Nazi claiming that the Swastika is part of their heritage and history and that it should be flown on the side of the Reichstag.
You might not agree with slavery, but do you really think that matters to a black person who walks past the capitol building and sees the symbol that hung over their slave ancestors heads?

If we're talking about one group of people loving the crap out of a flag and another group of people being emotionally damaged by that flag being flown, I'm going to side with the latter every single time in having it taken down.
Especially when it's on Government property, and especially when there is clearly a right and wrong side to the issue.

People often forget that the Northerners also had slaves and people of the confederacy also wanted slavery to be gone. The Confederate president himself, Jefferson Davis, came to strongly support ending slavery. So did CSA Secretary of State Judah Benjamin, Governor William Smith of Virginia, and leading CSA Congressmen Ethelbert Barksdale and Duncan Kenner (who was one of the largest slaveholders in the South).

The CSA's two highest ranking generals, Robert E. Lee and Joseph E. Johnston, both disliked slavery and supported emancipation in various forms. Lee called slavery "a moral and political evil." Johnston called it "a curse." (Johnston initially opposed using slaves as soldiers only because he feared it would be disruptive and ineffective, not because he had any sympathy for slavery. He later came to support the proposal.) Other Confederate generals who supported emancipation included General Daniel Govan, General John Kelly, and General Mark Lowrey.

The Confederate Congress specified that black soldiers in the Confederate army were to receive the same pay, rations, and clothing that white soldiers received. In contrast, black soldiers in the Union army were paid much less than white soldiers were paid for over a year. The Union army began using former slaves and free blacks as soldiers in September 1862. They were paid $7 per month. Technically, they were paid $10 a month, but they were forced to pay a clothing allowance of $3, which meant their net monthly pay was only $7. White soldiers, on the other hand, received $13 per month and were not forced to pay a clothing allowance. Thus, in the Union army white soldiers were paid nearly twice as much as black soldiers were paid. Black Union soldiers didnt start receiving equal pay until June 1864. When the Confederate Congress authorized the recruitment of slaves as soldiers, it stipulated that they were to receive the same rations, clothing and compensation as are allowed to other troops (An Act to Increase the Military Force of the Confederate States, March 13, 1865, Section 3). In addition, when the Confederate Congress authorized salaries for black musicians in the Confederate army in 1862, it specified that they were to receive the same pay as white army musicians, stating "whenever colored persons are employed as musicians in any regiment or company, they shall be entitled to the same pay now allowed by law to musicians regularly enlisted."

And for a second, you're going to say "Your ancestors didn't care about the rights and freedoms of African Americans"? Really? Clearly they do care about their rights and freedoms as they classify themselves as AFRICAN Americans, not just Americans like the rest of us.

When you try to compare the Confederacy to the Nazi's, I don't know what the **** you're talking about. Educate yourself before you compare the Confederacy to the Nazis, for that matter, educate yourself before you even talk about the Confederacy.

002 wrote People often forget that the Northerners also had slaves and people of the confederacy also wanted slavery to be gone. The Confederate president himself, Jefferson Davis, came to strongly support ending slavery.

Yes, he just thought that winning the war was the more pressing issue. That's not something to be proud of. As for the north owning slaves, so what? When the emancipation of slavery was on the table, the north accepted and fought for that. The confederacy didn't.

I'm reading up on these names and it's funny how they all tried to use the emancipation of slaves as a means to an end. That doesn't make them good people, it makes them bad people whose interests were achieved [or in this case not achieved] by doing a good thing.

Robert E. Lee might have opposed slavery, good for him, but his soldiers were still allowed to capture free blacks to be enslaved. What a great guy! That's like a Nazi saying that they think Jews should be free, and then shooting one in the head.

002 wrote The Confederate Congress specified that black soldiers in the Confederate army were to receive the same pay, rations, and clothing that white soldiers received. In contrast, black soldiers in the Union army were paid much less than white soldiers were paid for over a year. The Union army began using former slaves and free blacks as soldiers in September 1862. They were paid $7 per month. Technically, they were paid $10 a month, but they were forced to pay a clothing allowance of $3, which meant their net monthly pay was only $7. White soldiers, on the other hand, received $13 per month and were not forced to pay a clothing allowance. Thus, in the Union army white soldiers were paid nearly twice as much as black soldiers were paid. Black Union soldiers didnt start receiving equal pay until June 1864. When the Confederate Congress authorized the recruitment of slaves as soldiers, it stipulated that they were to receive the same rations, clothing and compensation as are allowed to other troops (An Act to Increase the Military Force of the Confederate States, March 13, 1865, Section 3). In addition, when the Confederate Congress authorized salaries for black musicians in the Confederate army in 1862, it specified that they were to receive the same pay as white army musicians, stating "whenever colored persons are employed as musicians in any regiment or company, they shall be entitled to the same pay now allowed by law to musicians regularly enlisted."

002 wrote And for a second, you're going to say "Your ancestors didn't care about the rights and freedoms of African Americans"? Really? Clearly they do care about their rights and freedoms as they classify themselves as AFRICAN Americans, not just Americans like the rest of us.

Of course they cared, they only enslaved them. Every single pro-black thing the confederacy did during the war can be put down to appeasement or 'the ends justify the means.' The ends being the continuation of slavery. These uncle toms who joined the confederate army should be just as ashamed of themselves as their white counterparts.

002 wrote When you try to compare the Confederacy to the Nazi's, I don't know what the **** you're talking about. Educate yourself before you compare the Confederacy to the Nazis, for that matter, educate yourself before you even talk about the Confederacy.

They were, for the most part, a bunch of slave owning morons. That is no better or worse than the Nazi's to me. If you want to fly that symbol on your own property then go right ahead, but not on public property.

Anyway, I'm not going to be responding to this thread any more. I've had this argument before on this website and its just going to go around and around in circles. I'm actually pretty certain it was you that I had this argument with last time. So yeah, have a good one.

002 wrote

Lavish wrote I'm genuinely curious about the people who are proud of their confederate roots and use the phrase "Heritage not hate".

The confederates lost. They're losers. It's like proudly waving a white surrender flag.

It's not about who won and who lost. If you're going to get rid of your roots because they lost, then YOU'RE the loser.

Actually that would sorta make me the winner since I don't celebrate my ancestors who were losers who surrendered.
Not only were they losers, but they were traitors.

Bourne wrote

Click to View Content

002 wrote

Lavish wrote I'm genuinely curious about the people who are proud of their confederate roots and use the phrase "Heritage not hate".

The confederates lost. They're losers. It's like proudly waving a white surrender flag.

It's not about who won and who lost. If you're going to get rid of your roots because they lost, then YOU'RE the loser.

It's like having a swastika on the side of the reichstag.

"But the confederates didn't ONLY fight for slavery"

And the Nazi's didn't ONLY fight for genocide.

"But it's our heritage"

Your ancestors didn't care about the rights and freedoms of African Americans.
Why do you expect people to respect them and have a symbol of their culture fly on the side of government property?

You wouldn't accept that argument from neo-Nazi's, so why do you expect people to accept it for you?

"But you can't seriously compare the confederate states to Nazi's and us to Neo-Nazi's"

Because slavery is so much more morally acceptable than genocide. No, they are both morally abhorrent.
As for you modern day Americans who are so proud of that flag, it is exactly the same as a Neo-Nazi claiming that the Swastika is part of their heritage and history and that it should be flown on the side of the Reichstag.
You might not agree with slavery, but do you really think that matters to a black person who walks past the capitol building and sees the symbol that hung over their slave ancestors heads?

If we're talking about one group of people loving the crap out of a flag and another group of people being emotionally damaged by that flag being flown, I'm going to side with the latter every single time in having it taken down.
Especially when it's on Government property, and especially when there is clearly a right and wrong side to the issue.

People often forget that the Northerners also had slaves and people of the confederacy also wanted slavery to be gone. The Confederate president himself, Jefferson Davis, came to strongly support ending slavery. So did CSA Secretary of State Judah Benjamin, Governor William Smith of Virginia, and leading CSA Congressmen Ethelbert Barksdale and Duncan Kenner (who was one of the largest slaveholders in the South).

The CSA's two highest ranking generals, Robert E. Lee and Joseph E. Johnston, both disliked slavery and supported emancipation in various forms. Lee called slavery "a moral and political evil." Johnston called it "a curse." (Johnston initially opposed using slaves as soldiers only because he feared it would be disruptive and ineffective, not because he had any sympathy for slavery. He later came to support the proposal.) Other Confederate generals who supported emancipation included General Daniel Govan, General John Kelly, and General Mark Lowrey.

The Confederate Congress specified that black soldiers in the Confederate army were to receive the same pay, rations, and clothing that white soldiers received. In contrast, black soldiers in the Union army were paid much less than white soldiers were paid for over a year. The Union army began using former slaves and free blacks as soldiers in September 1862. They were paid $7 per month. Technically, they were paid $10 a month, but they were forced to pay a clothing allowance of $3, which meant their net monthly pay was only $7. White soldiers, on the other hand, received $13 per month and were not forced to pay a clothing allowance. Thus, in the Union army white soldiers were paid nearly twice as much as black soldiers were paid. Black Union soldiers didnt start receiving equal pay until June 1864. When the Confederate Congress authorized the recruitment of slaves as soldiers, it stipulated that they were to receive the same rations, clothing and compensation as are allowed to other troops (An Act to Increase the Military Force of the Confederate States, March 13, 1865, Section 3). In addition, when the Confederate Congress authorized salaries for black musicians in the Confederate army in 1862, it specified that they were to receive the same pay as white army musicians, stating "whenever colored persons are employed as musicians in any regiment or company, they shall be entitled to the same pay now allowed by law to musicians regularly enlisted."

And for a second, you're going to say "Your ancestors didn't care about the rights and freedoms of African Americans"? Really? Clearly they do care about their rights and freedoms as they classify themselves as AFRICAN Americans, not just Americans like the rest of us.

When you try to compare the Confederacy to the Nazi's, I don't know what the **** you're talking about. Educate yourself before you compare the Confederacy to the Nazis, for that matter, educate yourself before you even talk about the Confederacy.

002 wrote People often forget that the Northerners also had slaves and people of the confederacy also wanted slavery to be gone. The Confederate president himself, Jefferson Davis, came to strongly support ending slavery.

Yes, he just thought that winning the war was the more pressing issue. That's not something to be proud of. As for the north owning slaves, so what? When the emancipation of slavery was on the table, the north accepted and fought for that. The confederacy didn't.

I'm reading up on these names and it's funny how they all tried to use the emancipation of slaves as a means to an end. That doesn't make them good people, it makes them bad people whose interests were achieved [or in this case not achieved] by doing a good thing.

Robert E. Lee might have opposed slavery, good for him, but his soldiers were still allowed to capture free blacks to be enslaved. What a great guy! That's like a Nazi saying that they think Jews should be free, and then shooting one in the head.

002 wrote The Confederate Congress specified that black soldiers in the Confederate army were to receive the same pay, rations, and clothing that white soldiers received. In contrast, black soldiers in the Union army were paid much less than white soldiers were paid for over a year. The Union army began using former slaves and free blacks as soldiers in September 1862. They were paid $7 per month. Technically, they were paid $10 a month, but they were forced to pay a clothing allowance of $3, which meant their net monthly pay was only $7. White soldiers, on the other hand, received $13 per month and were not forced to pay a clothing allowance. Thus, in the Union army white soldiers were paid nearly twice as much as black soldiers were paid. Black Union soldiers didnt start receiving equal pay until June 1864. When the Confederate Congress authorized the recruitment of slaves as soldiers, it stipulated that they were to receive the same rations, clothing and compensation as are allowed to other troops (An Act to Increase the Military Force of the Confederate States, March 13, 1865, Section 3). In addition, when the Confederate Congress authorized salaries for black musicians in the Confederate army in 1862, it specified that they were to receive the same pay as white army musicians, stating "whenever colored persons are employed as musicians in any regiment or company, they shall be entitled to the same pay now allowed by law to musicians regularly enlisted."

002 wrote And for a second, you're going to say "Your ancestors didn't care about the rights and freedoms of African Americans"? Really? Clearly they do care about their rights and freedoms as they classify themselves as AFRICAN Americans, not just Americans like the rest of us.

Of course they cared, they only enslaved them. Every single pro-black thing the confederacy did during the war can be put down to appeasement or 'the ends justify the means.' The ends being the continuation of slavery. These uncle toms who joined the confederate army should be just as ashamed of themselves as their white counterparts.

002 wrote When you try to compare the Confederacy to the Nazi's, I don't know what the **** you're talking about. Educate yourself before you compare the Confederacy to the Nazis, for that matter, educate yourself before you even talk about the Confederacy.

They were, for the most part, a bunch of slave owning morons. That is no better or worse than the Nazi's to me. If you want to fly that symbol on your own property then go right ahead, but not on public property.

Anyway, I'm not going to be responding to this thread any more. I've had this argument before on this website and its just going to go around and around in circles. I'm actually pretty certain it was you that I had this argument with last time. So yeah, have a good one.

Winning the war was for the good of the people.

You don't think emancipation is a bad thing? The fact or process of being set free from legal, social, or political restrictions; liberation.? Ok, what ever you say.

You don't understand how wars or armys work, do you? Each person is their own individual, they all have differing beliefs. People from the North wanted to keep slavery, see how that works?

You are literally making me dumber lol. Your saying that the people trying to end slavery are the people trying to get it in full swing? I don't know how you're reading things, but perhaps you should go over it a couple times.

"They were, for the most part, a bunch of slave owning morons. That is no better or worse than the Nazi's to me.
If you want to fly that symbol on your own property then go right ahead, but not on public property. " What? Again, look into the facts before you say anything. According to the 1860 census, only 31 percent of Southern families owned slaves. Seventy-five percent of the families that owned slaves, owned less than ten and often worked side by side with them in the fields. Approximately half of the free blacks in America lived in the South. The percentage of Southern citizens who held slaves was probably no more than 25 percent (some scholars put the percentage as low as 10 percent).

Go ahead, don't respond, because you don't know a damn thing about the topic at hand.

Lavish wrote

002 wrote

Lavish wrote I'm genuinely curious about the people who are proud of their confederate roots and use the phrase "Heritage not hate".

The confederates lost. They're losers. It's like proudly waving a white surrender flag.

It's not about who won and who lost. If you're going to get rid of your roots because they lost, then YOU'RE the loser.

Actually that would sorta make me the winner since I don't celebrate my ancestors who were losers who surrendered.
Not only were they losers, but they were traitors.

It's not "celebrating" your ancestors, it's about being proud of where you came from. Yeah, they lost a war, BFD. Do you know why the confederacy lost? Because they didn't have the manpower.

U.S. Grant also had several slaves, who were only freed after the 13th amendment in December of 1865. When asked why he didn't free his slaves earlier, Grant stated "Good help is so hard to come by these days."

Contrarily, Confederate General Robert E. Lee freed his slaves (which he never purchased - they were inherited) in 1862!!! Lee freed his slaves several years before the war was over, and considerably earlier than his Northern counterparts. And during the fierce early days of the war when the South was obliterating the Yankee armies!

Lastly, and most importantly, why did NORTHERN States outlaw slavery only AFTER the war was over? The so-called "Emancipation Proclamation" of Lincoln only gave freedom to slaves in the SOUTH! NOT in the North! This pecksniffery even went so far as to find the state of Delaware rejecting the 13th Amendment in December of 1865 and did not ratify it (13th Amendment / free the slaves) until 1901!

It is very important to keep in mind that the Confederate Battle Flag was simply just that. A battle flag. It was never even a National flag, so how could it have flown over a slave nation or represented slavery or racism? This myth is continued by lack of education and ignorance. Those that villify the Confederate Battle Flag are very confused about history and have jumped upon a bandwagon with loose wheels. If anything it should be glorified as that flag treated the blacks better than the union flag.

The US flag flew over a slave nation for over 85 years! The North tolerated slavery and acknowledged it as a Division Of Labor. The North made a vast fortune on slavery and it's commodities. It wasn't until the South decided to leave the Union that the North objected. The North knew it could not survive without the Southern money. That is the true definition of hypocrisy. A very interesting fact on slavery is that at the time the War of 1861 -1865 officially commenced, the Southern States were actually in the process of freeing all slaves in the South. Russia had freed it's servants in 1859, and the South took great note of this. Had military intervention not been forced upon the South, a very different America would have been realized then as well as now.

002 wrote

Lavish wrote

002 wrote

Lavish wrote I'm genuinely curious about the people who are proud of their confederate roots and use the phrase "Heritage not hate".

The confederates lost. They're losers. It's like proudly waving a white surrender flag.

It's not about who won and who lost. If you're going to get rid of your roots because they lost, then YOU'RE the loser.

Actually that would sorta make me the winner since I don't celebrate my ancestors who were losers who surrendered.
Not only were they losers, but they were traitors.

It's not "celebrating" your ancestors, it's about being proud of where you came from. Yeah, they lost a war, BFD. Do you know why the confederacy lost? Because they didn't have the manpower.

U.S. Grant also had several slaves, who were only freed after the 13th amendment in December of 1865. When asked why he didn't free his slaves earlier, Grant stated "Good help is so hard to come by these days."

Contrarily, Confederate General Robert E. Lee freed his slaves (which he never purchased - they were inherited) in 1862!!! Lee freed his slaves several years before the war was over, and considerably earlier than his Northern counterparts. And during the fierce early days of the war when the South was obliterating the Yankee armies!

Lastly, and most importantly, why did NORTHERN States outlaw slavery only AFTER the war was over? The so-called "Emancipation Proclamation" of Lincoln only gave freedom to slaves in the SOUTH! NOT in the North! This pecksniffery even went so far as to find the state of Delaware rejecting the 13th Amendment in December of 1865 and did not ratify it (13th Amendment / free the slaves) until 1901!

It is very important to keep in mind that the Confederate Battle Flag was simply just that. A battle flag. It was never even a National flag, so how could it have flown over a slave nation or represented slavery or racism? This myth is continued by lack of education and ignorance. Those that villify the Confederate Battle Flag are very confused about history and have jumped upon a bandwagon with loose wheels. If anything it should be glorified as that flag treated the blacks better than the union flag.

The US flag flew over a slave nation for over 85 years! The North tolerated slavery and acknowledged it as a Division Of Labor. The North made a vast fortune on slavery and it's commodities. It wasn't until the South decided to leave the Union that the North objected. The North knew it could not survive without the Southern money. That is the true definition of hypocrisy. A very interesting fact on slavery is that at the time the War of 1861 -1865 officially commenced, the Southern States were actually in the process of freeing all slaves in the South. Russia had freed it's servants in 1859, and the South took great note of this. Had military intervention not been forced upon the South, a very different America would have been realized then as well as now.

I don't know why you're coming at me with all this shit about slavery.
The only things I pointed out are the fact that people are proud to wave the flag of losers and traitors.

Lavish wrote

002 wrote

Lavish wrote

002 wrote

Lavish wrote I'm genuinely curious about the people who are proud of their confederate roots and use the phrase "Heritage not hate".

The confederates lost. They're losers. It's like proudly waving a white surrender flag.

It's not about who won and who lost. If you're going to get rid of your roots because they lost, then YOU'RE the loser.

Actually that would sorta make me the winner since I don't celebrate my ancestors who were losers who surrendered.
Not only were they losers, but they were traitors.

It's not "celebrating" your ancestors, it's about being proud of where you came from. Yeah, they lost a war, BFD. Do you know why the confederacy lost? Because they didn't have the manpower.

U.S. Grant also had several slaves, who were only freed after the 13th amendment in December of 1865. When asked why he didn't free his slaves earlier, Grant stated "Good help is so hard to come by these days."

Contrarily, Confederate General Robert E. Lee freed his slaves (which he never purchased - they were inherited) in 1862!!! Lee freed his slaves several years before the war was over, and considerably earlier than his Northern counterparts. And during the fierce early days of the war when the South was obliterating the Yankee armies!

Lastly, and most importantly, why did NORTHERN States outlaw slavery only AFTER the war was over? The so-called "Emancipation Proclamation" of Lincoln only gave freedom to slaves in the SOUTH! NOT in the North! This pecksniffery even went so far as to find the state of Delaware rejecting the 13th Amendment in December of 1865 and did not ratify it (13th Amendment / free the slaves) until 1901!

It is very important to keep in mind that the Confederate Battle Flag was simply just that. A battle flag. It was never even a National flag, so how could it have flown over a slave nation or represented slavery or racism? This myth is continued by lack of education and ignorance. Those that villify the Confederate Battle Flag are very confused about history and have jumped upon a bandwagon with loose wheels. If anything it should be glorified as that flag treated the blacks better than the union flag.

The US flag flew over a slave nation for over 85 years! The North tolerated slavery and acknowledged it as a Division Of Labor. The North made a vast fortune on slavery and it's commodities. It wasn't until the South decided to leave the Union that the North objected. The North knew it could not survive without the Southern money. That is the true definition of hypocrisy. A very interesting fact on slavery is that at the time the War of 1861 -1865 officially commenced, the Southern States were actually in the process of freeing all slaves in the South. Russia had freed it's servants in 1859, and the South took great note of this. Had military intervention not been forced upon the South, a very different America would have been realized then as well as now.

I don't know why you're coming at me with all this shit about slavery.
The only things I pointed out are the fact that people are proud to wave the flag of losers and traitors.

Because it makes no sense lol, you could say that about any flag in existence, but what I'm pointing out is that it's not all the flag "stands" for if you will. They lost the war but at least they fought the right war. To me it shows people seen things where wrong and fought to change it. They would rather live on their feet than die on their knees. Where you see a flag flown by losers, I see strength and pride.

002 wrote They lost the war but at least they fought the right war. To me it shows people seen things where wrong and fought to change it. They would rather live on their feet than die on their knees. Where you see a flag flown by losers, I see strength and pride.

They rebelled against the US. They're seditious and treacherous traitors.

Lavish wrote

002 wrote They lost the war but at least they fought the right war. To me it shows people seen things where wrong and fought to change it. They would rather live on their feet than die on their knees. Where you see a flag flown by losers, I see strength and pride.

They rebelled against the US. They're seditious and treacherous traitors.

They where part of the US, hence why it was a CIVIL war. The same thing you just said could be said about the US right now. You have yet to tell me why the Confederates are worse than the US today.

002 wrote

Bourne wrote

Click to View Content

002 wrote

Lavish wrote I'm genuinely curious about the people who are proud of their confederate roots and use the phrase "Heritage not hate".

The confederates lost. They're losers. It's like proudly waving a white surrender flag.

It's not about who won and who lost. If you're going to get rid of your roots because they lost, then YOU'RE the loser.

It's like having a swastika on the side of the reichstag.

"But the confederates didn't ONLY fight for slavery"

And the Nazi's didn't ONLY fight for genocide.

"But it's our heritage"

Your ancestors didn't care about the rights and freedoms of African Americans.
Why do you expect people to respect them and have a symbol of their culture fly on the side of government property?

You wouldn't accept that argument from neo-Nazi's, so why do you expect people to accept it for you?

"But you can't seriously compare the confederate states to Nazi's and us to Neo-Nazi's"

Because slavery is so much more morally acceptable than genocide. No, they are both morally abhorrent.
As for you modern day Americans who are so proud of that flag, it is exactly the same as a Neo-Nazi claiming that the Swastika is part of their heritage and history and that it should be flown on the side of the Reichstag.
You might not agree with slavery, but do you really think that matters to a black person who walks past the capitol building and sees the symbol that hung over their slave ancestors heads?

If we're talking about one group of people loving the crap out of a flag and another group of people being emotionally damaged by that flag being flown, I'm going to side with the latter every single time in having it taken down.
Especially when it's on Government property, and especially when there is clearly a right and wrong side to the issue.

People often forget that the Northerners also had slaves and people of the confederacy also wanted slavery to be gone. The Confederate president himself, Jefferson Davis, came to strongly support ending slavery. So did CSA Secretary of State Judah Benjamin, Governor William Smith of Virginia, and leading CSA Congressmen Ethelbert Barksdale and Duncan Kenner (who was one of the largest slaveholders in the South).

The CSA's two highest ranking generals, Robert E. Lee and Joseph E. Johnston, both disliked slavery and supported emancipation in various forms. Lee called slavery "a moral and political evil." Johnston called it "a curse." (Johnston initially opposed using slaves as soldiers only because he feared it would be disruptive and ineffective, not because he had any sympathy for slavery. He later came to support the proposal.) Other Confederate generals who supported emancipation included General Daniel Govan, General John Kelly, and General Mark Lowrey.

The Confederate Congress specified that black soldiers in the Confederate army were to receive the same pay, rations, and clothing that white soldiers received. In contrast, black soldiers in the Union army were paid much less than white soldiers were paid for over a year. The Union army began using former slaves and free blacks as soldiers in September 1862. They were paid $7 per month. Technically, they were paid $10 a month, but they were forced to pay a clothing allowance of $3, which meant their net monthly pay was only $7. White soldiers, on the other hand, received $13 per month and were not forced to pay a clothing allowance. Thus, in the Union army white soldiers were paid nearly twice as much as black soldiers were paid. Black Union soldiers didnt start receiving equal pay until June 1864. When the Confederate Congress authorized the recruitment of slaves as soldiers, it stipulated that they were to receive the same rations, clothing and compensation as are allowed to other troops (An Act to Increase the Military Force of the Confederate States, March 13, 1865, Section 3). In addition, when the Confederate Congress authorized salaries for black musicians in the Confederate army in 1862, it specified that they were to receive the same pay as white army musicians, stating "whenever colored persons are employed as musicians in any regiment or company, they shall be entitled to the same pay now allowed by law to musicians regularly enlisted."

And for a second, you're going to say "Your ancestors didn't care about the rights and freedoms of African Americans"? Really? Clearly they do care about their rights and freedoms as they classify themselves as AFRICAN Americans, not just Americans like the rest of us.

When you try to compare the Confederacy to the Nazi's, I don't know what the **** you're talking about. Educate yourself before you compare the Confederacy to the Nazis, for that matter, educate yourself before you even talk about the Confederacy.

002 wrote People often forget that the Northerners also had slaves and people of the confederacy also wanted slavery to be gone. The Confederate president himself, Jefferson Davis, came to strongly support ending slavery.

Yes, he just thought that winning the war was the more pressing issue. That's not something to be proud of. As for the north owning slaves, so what? When the emancipation of slavery was on the table, the north accepted and fought for that. The confederacy didn't.

I'm reading up on these names and it's funny how they all tried to use the emancipation of slaves as a means to an end. That doesn't make them good people, it makes them bad people whose interests were achieved [or in this case not achieved] by doing a good thing.

Robert E. Lee might have opposed slavery, good for him, but his soldiers were still allowed to capture free blacks to be enslaved. What a great guy! That's like a Nazi saying that they think Jews should be free, and then shooting one in the head.

002 wrote The Confederate Congress specified that black soldiers in the Confederate army were to receive the same pay, rations, and clothing that white soldiers received. In contrast, black soldiers in the Union army were paid much less than white soldiers were paid for over a year. The Union army began using former slaves and free blacks as soldiers in September 1862. They were paid $7 per month. Technically, they were paid $10 a month, but they were forced to pay a clothing allowance of $3, which meant their net monthly pay was only $7. White soldiers, on the other hand, received $13 per month and were not forced to pay a clothing allowance. Thus, in the Union army white soldiers were paid nearly twice as much as black soldiers were paid. Black Union soldiers didnt start receiving equal pay until June 1864. When the Confederate Congress authorized the recruitment of slaves as soldiers, it stipulated that they were to receive the same rations, clothing and compensation as are allowed to other troops (An Act to Increase the Military Force of the Confederate States, March 13, 1865, Section 3). In addition, when the Confederate Congress authorized salaries for black musicians in the Confederate army in 1862, it specified that they were to receive the same pay as white army musicians, stating "whenever colored persons are employed as musicians in any regiment or company, they shall be entitled to the same pay now allowed by law to musicians regularly enlisted."

002 wrote And for a second, you're going to say "Your ancestors didn't care about the rights and freedoms of African Americans"? Really? Clearly they do care about their rights and freedoms as they classify themselves as AFRICAN Americans, not just Americans like the rest of us.

Of course they cared, they only enslaved them. Every single pro-black thing the confederacy did during the war can be put down to appeasement or 'the ends justify the means.' The ends being the continuation of slavery. These uncle toms who joined the confederate army should be just as ashamed of themselves as their white counterparts.

002 wrote When you try to compare the Confederacy to the Nazi's, I don't know what the **** you're talking about. Educate yourself before you compare the Confederacy to the Nazis, for that matter, educate yourself before you even talk about the Confederacy.

They were, for the most part, a bunch of slave owning morons. That is no better or worse than the Nazi's to me. If you want to fly that symbol on your own property then go right ahead, but not on public property.

Anyway, I'm not going to be responding to this thread any more. I've had this argument before on this website and its just going to go around and around in circles. I'm actually pretty certain it was you that I had this argument with last time. So yeah, have a good one.

Winning the war was for the good of the people.

You don't think emancipation is a bad thing? The fact or process of being set free from legal, social, or political restrictions; liberation.? Ok, what ever you say.

You don't understand how wars or armys work, do you? Each person is their own individual, they all have differing beliefs. People from the North wanted to keep slavery, see how that works?

You are literally making me dumber lol. Your saying that the people trying to end slavery are the people trying to get it in full swing? I don't know how you're reading things, but perhaps you should go over it a couple times.

"They were, for the most part, a bunch of slave owning morons. That is no better or worse than the Nazi's to me.
If you want to fly that symbol on your own property then go right ahead, but not on public property. " What? Again, look into the facts before you say anything. According to the 1860 census, only 31 percent of Southern families owned slaves. Seventy-five percent of the families that owned slaves, owned less than ten and often worked side by side with them in the fields. Approximately half of the free blacks in America lived in the South. The percentage of Southern citizens who held slaves was probably no more than 25 percent (some scholars put the percentage as low as 10 percent).

Go ahead, don't respond, because you don't know a damn thing about the topic at hand.

Ugh.... ok, I tried not to respond, but wow.

You really don't get it do you?

You see this as, 'Well it wasn't a large percentage so that doesn't really matter.'
Even if it was only 1% of southern citizens who owned slaves, and the confederate army was fighting for their right to own those slaves, that is still too much.
You don't compromise with slavery.

The numbers don't matter, the ideology is what matters.
They were fighting for the right to own people. It doesn't matter how many people they owned, or intended to own.
Just as it wouldn't matter if the Nazi's were fighting for the right to kill all the Jews, but then only ended up killing 10,000, rather than 6 million.
The fact that they thought they could own people, or that the Nazi's thought they could kill people, makes them morally reprehensible regardless of the extent of their intended ownership or murder.
If you fly that flag proudly then you are proud that your ancestors had the hubris to try to own people.

You don't think emancipation is a bad thing? The fact or process of being set free from legal, social, or political restrictions; liberation.? Ok, what ever you say.

Literally what?!

Are you actually being serious? Of course emancipation isn't a bad thing, especially when that emancipation is from slavery.
I don't know if you understand what you just wrote, or if you're pro-slavery, but holy hell. The word 'restrictions' isn't in there just for the fun of it.

You don't understand how wars or armys work, do you? Each person is their own individual, they all have differing beliefs. People from the North wanted to keep slavery, see how that works?

Yes, I see how that works, unfortunately for your position it wasn't the view of the army as a whole.
Let me break this down:

Confederate Army
The official view of the army: Slavery should be legal.
The views of some of the people within the army: Slavery should be illegal.

The Union
The official view of the army: Slavery should be illegal.
The views of some people within the army: Slavery should be legal.

We are talking about a flag which represented the army not the individual people.
If we were talking about a statue of a Union general who was pro-slavery, then I'd want them to take that down, but we're not talking about that.