Posted by John Titor on 01-27-2001 12:45 PM

Greetings. I am a time traveler from the year 2036. I am on my way home after getting an IBM 5100 computer system from the year 1975.

My "time" machine is a stationary mass, temporal displacement unit manufactured by General Electric. The unit is powered by two, top-spin, dual-positive singularities that produce a standard, off-set Tipler sinusoid.

I will be happy to post pictures of the unit.

Posted by Mike Klinge on 01-27-2001 03:01 PM

Hi,

As you are well aware of, I am sure, people can post anything here, whether or not it is true. What proof do you have that you have traveled through time? Rest assured that I want to believe you, but why should I believe?

Thank you for indulging me.

Posted by John Titor on 01-27-2001 09:15 PM

I have been commuinicating online with others who are interested in time travel.

Also, for more information:

[ Register or Signin to view external links. ]

[Edited by Mary Rowland on 01-28-2001 at 03:04 PM]
Posted by Kevin Spooner on 01-28-2001 03:23 AM

Question

Just an obviously curious note: If you were returning from the 1970's to 2036 (um that's 66 years).... and you are using a time-travel machine.... why on earth would you just per chance stop in 2001? Let alone have a web page.

Answer welcome - I didn't know time travel had resting stops between scheduled trips? Hey - I'm not going to disbelieve on that basis, just curious.

Posted by John Titor on 01-28-2001 06:35 AM

My initial flight was from 2036 to 1975 (61 yrs). I then went from 1975 to 2000 (25 yrs.) Later this year, one of two favorable windows will open and I will return to my 2036 (35 yrs.) I am here now for personal reasons. The web page is not mine. I have been speaking online for about three months and the page is a collection of the various documents and pictures I have sent to other individuals.

Also, I realize there is no way for anyone to believe me with absolute certainty so I hope I'm at least entertaining. You may be interested to know that even in 2036, there are a large number of people who dont believe in time travel. Are you sure the world is round?

Posted by Theresa Wood on 01-28-2001 07:33 PM

I read the q&a on the link posted and I found it to be very interesting. Whether you are a time traveler or not is not relevant. This is a very probable scenario of what our future holds if things continue on their present course. Sometimes we need to step out of a situation in order to see it more clearly. A time traveler from the future "seeing" the events of the day helps in understanding the current social/political trends. You hit it square on the head, in my opinion. I enjoyed reading it, thanx!

Posted by Jeret Schisler on 01-28-2001 07:40 PM

Wink

John, Can you please tell me some lotto numbers for 2036? I'll be ready to retire around that time. if I'm still alive. Thanks

Posted by Kevin Spooner on 01-29-2001 02:45 AM

Unhappy

I visited your web page and it immediately struck me with those "photo's" you claimed to have put there or made available or believe in... mind if I ask something to clear my logical thinking mind...

Why is it, given that laser printers etc can print up to 2,400cpi, (or at least 600cpi) and pictures can be scanned at god only knows what (9,600+cpi) why your text and graphics appear to be 1950's reproduction of a faint typewriter in need of a ribbon replacement (God I havn't used the word 'Ribbon' since.... hmmm.)

And then there's the fact that given the obvious typewriter appearance, the 'text' sure wasn't made in 2036.

Oh... please don't use the "oh - technology went by the board by then." approach cause it won't stick.

Please understand that I have examined time travel and parallel world theories extensively and therefore only seek to clarify these points with you.

Posted by John Titor on 01-29-2001 07:47 AM

Please keep in mind the web site is not mine and I apologize for the poor quality of the files. The photo you saw was taken by me with a Polaroid camera manufactured here. The other documents were duplicated by placing a book onto a copy machine at a packaging and shipping store and then scanning and saving them.

As for the printing technology in 2036, you may be surprised at how many people use typewriters however I agree the documents were probably not created that way.

I too am very anxious to hear your thoughts and questions on time travel / gravity displacement and any comments on the Everett Wheeler Graham model.

Posted by Lee Heggy on 01-29-2001 12:14 PM

2036 sounds more like 1836 with all the 'good stuff' of modern life thrown in. Personally I prefer our current time-line even with all of it's excess and decadency it's an exciting time to be alive and I can still multiply and divide in my head.

Posted by John Titor on 01-29-2001 03:48 PM

Although the documents posted were printed from a computer printer, is it really that hard to believe that manual typing is just a bit more common in thirty years? After the war, many things like manual printing machines, bicycles, sailboats and hand tools were valued a great deal. I have noticed more people in California are installing wood burning stoves.

I realize my claims are a bit ridiculous but my intent is not really to be believed. However, if I had an opportunity to talk to a time traveler, I might ask questions like: How exactly does the singularity sensor measure the expansion of the inner event horizon or why does the reality of multiple worlds support the religious dogma that there are no good or bad people just good and bad desicions or what were the political motivations that changed the U.S. Constitution?

Posted by Mike Kolesnik on 01-29-2001 06:38 PM

Red face

Ho hum...ANOTHER time travler.
Well, time to run him thru the BS o'meter.

Did you ever notice how time travlers never specify events that happen in the NEAR future? As in a week to a month or so. The reason why is because then people could check on these "events" to determine if they have happened or not.
Well John, answer a few questions that any person from the future should know (or at least have easy access to)

1. What was the final death count in the recent India earthquake?
2. What is the "Ginger" (IT) invention?
3. Who wins the Stanley Cup (Hockey) this year?

Posted by Kimberly Nease on 01-29-2001 07:26 PM

Angry

Super questions. This "time traveler" should have NO trouble at all answering these questions, especially the GINGER one so get cracking John.

Kim

Posted by John Titor on 01-29-2001 09:10 PM

How do you figure I have easy access? I can appreciate your skepticism but I must admit Im confused by your choice of questions. I fail to understand why a time traveler would be expected to know the details you ask. Right now, do any of you know the details of the first week in February for 1970? For that matter, could you tell me from memory if it rained in Atlanta last week? Is a sports almanac a required or expected piece of equipment for all time machines?

At least you didnt ask the standard what stocks should I buy question. Interesting that no one ever asks which stocks to sell. Im sure my answers will be quite unsatisfying but you should know I do not want your unshakable faith nor do I think anyone should give it so easily if a time traveler were able to answer those questions.

In fact, over this medium, its impossible to prove Im a time traveler, therefore, its impossible to believe. Actually, I depend on that a great deal so I dont have to worry about being picked up by your friendly law enforcement officers. What do you think they would do with two micro-singularities?

So here goes...

(1). I have no idea.
(2). It looks like some sort of motorized scooter. What do you think IT is?
(3). I know this one but I think it would be unfair and immoral for anyone to win a bet based on something Ive told them.

Posted by Stephen McKay on 01-29-2001 10:16 PM

I'm sure it would be unfair and immoral if we had certainty, but the truth is anyone placing a bet on your answer would still be gambling on whether you are in fact from the future. Spill the beans!

Posted by Kevin Spooner on 01-30-2001 04:57 AM

Talking

I can understand the ethics at hand here quite well. If you know, for instance, that someone is going to have a fatal accident, or meet with an unpleasant incident at a specific time, would you tell them the specifics? I wouldn't. If you knew when Microsoft was going to break, or where the next and largest ever earthquake was to hit - would you tell? There is the matter of ethics indeed. Who want to force life-changes that are not natural to their path? Paths which intermingle with all other life, indeed creation played out on this earth. No indeed you wouldn't.

Yet if a person already knew, as I do, that they are in the history books, as I am, but not known widely or available within the community yet - there is a simple challenge. And no - I am not talking from any egotistical sense - just one of knowing. However, whether time travellers wish to demonstrate based on the above is up to them. I would certainly be forthright in my confirmation to them (private email is allowed given the circumstances.)

But gentlemen and ladies... it also seems that certain 'time travellers' traverse linear time whereas others appear to travel cross-dimensionally. Interesting and one worth discussion.

I personally challenge said time traveller(s) to demonstrate their proof by confirming to me what is already known to me as per my own history but not yet in public circulation.

And I should add given that scenario - you can not bend or manipulate my future path because you would not be telling me anything I did not already know. Fun aye ???

Posted by John Titor on 01-30-2001 06:21 AM

(To the moderators: I apologize for the links, I understand and it wont happen again. I will be happy to submit the same material if theres a place to post it here.)

In my experience, when it becomes necessary to convince someone what I do for a living the only way to do that is to be related to them. Everything else is immediately written off as a parlor trick, even if theyre standing in front of a cooling distortion unit and I show them a dollar bill with the year 2029 on it.

In the last few months, I have had numerous extended conversations online and there are quite a few things Ive said which can easily be checked out but havent. I get no pleasure out of being right when it comes to CJD disease, war in the Middle East or suffering people in far away lands. Theres nothing like the look on someones face when you tell them 100,000 people will be dead tomorrow. In my travels, I have discovered that most people really dont want to know about the future because if its different than what they want it ticks them off. Actually, I dont blame them.

The means by which I travel in time is very physical. I require a machine to do it. It weighs about 500 pounds and gets quite hot. I do not own it and I did not build it. Within limits, I will be happy to discuss how it works and how future science thinks time works. No we have not completed string theory yet but (N-10) seems to work pretty well.

As far as the future goes, your worldline is about 2.5% different than mine. This is a roughly cumulative measurement based on my arrival in 1975. As far as I can tell right now, you are headed toward the same events I would call my history in 2036. However, the very nature of time travel states that every worldline is unique and you are very much in control of what you do and how you get there. Heck, the fact that Im here makes it different from mine.

I have nothing to sell, and there is nothing I want anyone to do. For all other time travelers out there, I have no tests for you and I would enjoy discussing your feelings and experiences after the war. To everyone else, while Im here, I am very interested in your philosophy, religious outlooks and speculations on technology.

Posted by Kevin Spooner on 01-30-2001 12:36 PM

Wink

Ah... the war. Now that's interesting. Is it worth mentioning the visions I observed in this or similar respect?

Now as to answering my previous post... I simply placed a task there that if done would not alter my time-line but for sure answer one thing - I believe in the reality of Alien technology as I was one of several verifiable people to OBSERVE the same occurence. I believe in astral/spiritual travel as a person who has done so and spoken to others of the same. I believe in the potential of time travel BUT have not received anything that would make me properly convinced yet.

But then... perchance I missed some other posts prior to this BBS (although I did on ocassion read the old system when it was active.)

You tell of war... and your desire to study the inhabitants of this time-line prior to 'the war'. Is the general population more interested in (a) mind-baffling time-travel technology, or (b) the events and observances of a time-traveller? A bit of both perhaps?

Care to shed some light on your view on 'The War' and why it is that technology appears to have gone - or become the seclusive property of controlling authorities? Interesting. I note also the American Computer Corporation announcing an alternative storage/processing system 12,000 times faster than current systems...apparently by non-human intelligence. Now as a technician, that IS interesting but of the apparent 3,000 the director sent out.... wonder if there's one left for a genuine techo to study?

Posted by John Titor on 01-30-2001 02:09 PM

Sometimes I imagine what it would be like to approach the Wright Brothers in 1910, before their first flight, and make the suggestion that in a mere thirty years, man would be on the brink of flying through the air at the speed of sound.

What tools would I be able to show them that would convince them? Would a picture of a jet airplane do it? Would complicated math and physics equations do it? Would it take a ride? Perhaps there will be a way to share the photos again but I dont expect it would convince anyone. I would only hope they would spark conversation and make the reality of time travel a little more personal.

Although I have no personal experience with non-mechanical time travel, I cannot discount it. Physics has a way of making the impossible a reality.

Im not here to study anyone. My objective was in 1975 and the reason Im here now is my family. I find my preconceptions of what I would encounter interesting. Being exposed to a society through its art, music and advertising is one thing and experiencing it is another.

Im not sure the physics of time travel is really that hard to grasp. Most of the working theory has been around on a large scale since 1970 and the technical breakthroughs are happening on your worldline right now.

Technology is not gone in 2036 nor is it the private domain of government leaders. Computer printers just didnt work very well on 12 volts and many people just got used to doing things the old way. After the war, the main problem was distribution. Can anyone tell me how many companies in the United States still manufacture bicycle tires today? Anyone who still has a bike in 2008 will find out.

Posted by Mike Kolesnik on 01-30-2001 07:58 PM

Red face

The wave rider spun a similar yarn and reeled Art in, hook, line and sinker. Then Art had him on the show. He started off ok but quickly went downhill into the Wacko Zone. After he told Art that Marilyn Monore is not only alive but that she shot JFK there was a LONG silence from Art. I could hear the gears turning in Art's head as he finally realized that he had been suckered.

It was the most glorious moment of silence!

Art recovered and proceeded to blast him.

Now, Back to "John". Some items, John.

If I traveled back in time I would absolutely want to know the history of the period and location. Since you have revealed yourself you have obviously been trying to convince people of you credibility. So since you had fore knowledge of your intentions you should have been ABSOLUTELY sure of having easy-to-verify NEAR future history. Showing crappy pictures of dollar bills from the future is child's play.
Anybody with a $500 computer can do that. You sound like one of those religious cult nuts whose story keeps changing.
The "temporal divergence" you mention makes it an easy answer for every probing question. " Well, because of the temporal divergence, the whole world just changed, THAT's why none of my predictions come true.
There is a medical term for people like you.
Look it up!

1. So General Electric makes your TT machine. Well if that's the case then being masters of mass production they should have made millions of them because EVERYONE would want one.

2. If the machine does exist we should be FLOODED with TTer's right now!

3. CJD That story has been know since the late 1940's. No great news there.

4. Middle east problems? That's a no brainer.

You are spitting out the same things Ed Dames did.
None of his predictions came true either...

Yawn...

Posted by Kevin Spooner on 01-31-2001 02:14 AM

Galvanisation is something occasionally found on a packet of building-grade nails (like 'galvanised flathead') But with the lack of tangible evidence I'm thinking of shifting my belief in just what (or who) should be termed galvanised?

I have not seen a constructively frameworked document outlining required ethics which any trained TT would of necessity agree to. I have not seen a TT willing to forward a single piece of physical time travel device to this particular technician since first posting anything over five years ago. I have not heard of any governing declaration of use for TT devices from the future.

I have seen 'interesting' crude pictures, photo's of items with curly cords and really pre-1990 style equipment with perchance a few common dials, needles, and circuits in probably arc-welded metal boxes. I have seen diagrams, descriptions, interpretations, crude 'make your own' manuals, and the like - and yet nothing, not one iota of anything that could without question come from some future.

I am not p***ed off - not yet. I am calm (breathe man breathe!) and wait in anticipation of some correct answers to some simple questions and for goodness sake... some undoubtable proof. Then - only then - would constructive discussion really begin.

Posted by John Titor on 01-31-2001 06:30 AM

Im not aware of any predictions I made or perhaps we do not agree on the definition. What anyone chooses to do based on something I might say will not affect me in the least. My goal is not to believed and I submit that your life would not be any better (and perhaps worse) if you did believe me. You placed tests before me that I must pass. Why? What do I have to gain by passing them?

The fact is there is nothing I can say or show you or let you drop hydrochloric acid on that will make you believe me and I really dont want that. It would be nice to discuss your view on religion, politics, physics and the mechanical requirements of time travel but in order to engage in those types of conversations, I must apparently tell you who wins the hockey game next week. Im just guessing that if were to write out the ten lines for Fermats final proof you wouldnt be very impressed either.

(1) Industrialized mass production does not produce the uncountable tonnage of useless consumer items so gleefully absorbed by your society. I would estimate there are about 10 units like mine (C204) and twenty larger units (C206). The main difference is the sensitivity and number of the main Cesium clocks. I would estimate that some sort of public time travel will be common around 2045.

(2) Im not aware of any other time travelers here now. But if they are here, Im sure theyre pouring over sports history books so they can go back in time another week and start a friendly conversation on the web.

(3) The Mad Cow story here is yet to begin but dont worry, the fruited jellitine deserts are safe.

(4) Im glad to see its so easy for to dismiss the Middle East. Yes, I suppose it is a no brainer but pretty soon it will be a no arrmer and a no legger.

Ethics is an excellent topic of discussion and I hope we can move past a collective insistence of applying everything to this frame of reference.

Posted by Melinda Floyd on 01-31-2001 10:50 AM

Of course I only speak for myself, but I think it's irrelevant and pointless to argue whether or not this man is a Time Traveler or not. This thread sure beats anything else on the BBS right now, and it doesn't matter if what John is claiming is fact, a hypothetical exercise or pure BS. He's raised some very interesting points that I think would be beneficial for discussion:

1) Civil War--considering the current political climate of our country, this is feasible. Figuring in the pervading apathy regarding what has happened in the last couple of months (the serious implications should have at least 'clicked' by now), I think something much more drastic would have to happen to get Americans off their couches and away from their TV's (or computers) in order to fight for ANYTHING.
2) Mass Production--I was thinking the other day how much we waste in this country via mass production. I was in a store standing in front of a wall covered with utterly useless 'stuff' and the absurdity of it struck me so much I had to laugh. I've always admired Gandhi's belief in doing away with industrializing India in favor of keeping to a much smaller (but more widely spread among the people) production of textiles (ie; 'craftsmen').
3) Ethics and Holistic thinking--shouldn't the more prosperous lend a helping hand to those in less fortunate circumstances, and shouldn't this be done worldwide? I know we in America have allowed ourselves to be lied to regarding what is important and what is not. We seem to be more valued in this society for what kind of, and how many material possessions we accumulate than for the intangible/non-material but longer lasting treasures we might possess.
4) Anything is possible. Why not? If you think for yourself, someone like John shouldn't be a threat. Haven't you had 'futuristic' dreams? Do you suspect that you are living in other timelines or 'realities'--some very similar, some so different that you don't even have a frame of reference in order to understand them with? Do you remember doing this particular incarnation millions of times before? Is sanity just too boring for you?=)

Anyways, I only briefly touched on some of the things John has brought up in his posts (and from the link he posted). Yeah John, I'd like to discuss what ethics and the human condition would be like in the future.

Posted by Vanessa Bunn on 01-31-2001 03:41 PM

John Titor,

A serious reply please. When you determine the time to which you want to travel do you "dial in" the date to which you want to go, can you "jump" to a new date, say in 1000 year increments. Can you "sample" the time period by stopping only for a few moments before continueing your trip and can you take passengers with you????? please answer honestly.

Posted by John Titor on 01-31-2001 07:13 PM

The distortion unit reaches its target destination by using very sensitive gravity sensors and atomic clocks. The basic unit of calculation is the second. So yes, in a sense you do dial in in a date and the computer system controls the distortion field. At maximum power, the unit I have is capable of traveling about 10 years an hour.

Unfortunately, time travel is not an exact science. There is inherent error and chaos in the computers ability to make accurate calculations. Based on the current technology of the clocks and sensors, distortion units are only accurate to about 60 years or so. So no, in 2036, we are unable to travel back 1000 years due to the error rate in the system. The divergence between the worldline of origin and the target worldline would be too great. If one were to try and travel back that far, history would look nothing like what you would expect.

The unit has mass limits but the 204 is capable of transporting about three people and equipment. I dont think you would like 2036 very much.

Posted by Charles Moltrup on 01-31-2001 09:02 PM

Wink

Why would you want a IBM 5100 I can find them at auctions for next to nothing, i think they were the first 286 CPU's.
Why didn't you stop in this year first and by one.Well I have a good question for you in 2036 do you still use toliet paper to wipe your ass.

Posted by Kevin Spooner on 02-01-2001 04:58 AM

I'm pleased to see certain persons take little offence and in fact upon re-reading my posts recently I have noticed they don't read as intended - I am for the record pleasant but usually quiet company! Sorry if I upset you (I hope not.)Dear God... please hurry up and make these computers write not what is typed... but what is meant.... hmm.

I have a natural inquisitive mind and enjoy and technical challenges. I am also a Spiritualist and to that end enjoy both spirit and mind... which is why I for one am naturally curious about the future, time travel, parallel universes, and spiritual matters. I believe that most people visiting this site do so for a mixture of reasons - including the DESIRE to know.

You mentioned previously the year 2008 - what's significant given your observed 2.5% difference between this time line and your own?

You mentioned a certain model (204) travel unit - what is the source of power and what type of 'engine' is used?

If as you claimed, most of the requisite information has been around since 1970's - and yet time travel is not public until ? 2045... why is it that a time traveller can not divulge design information that would demonstrate its reality. Are there missing common elements/materials yet to be discovered or engineered?

Posted by John Titor on 02-01-2001 08:36 AM

The 5100 had a very simple and unique feature that IBM did not account for and decided it was not in their best interest to advertise (which in hindsight was not very smart). This accidental feature was thus removed from any future desktop computers. In order to take advantage of this feature, the 5100 I have now required a couple of special tweaks that had to be done by one of the software engineers in 1975. Anyone who is familiar with this feature and was told to keep their mouth shut about it will be able to tell you what it is.

Yes we still have toilet tissue and some people still suffer from extreme anal fixation.

I have noticed and gotten used to the act of verbal conflict as a cathartic entertainment. I dont totally understand it but I take no offense by it either. Perhaps we could just arm wrestle some day and still be able to have a pleasant conversation.

The year 2008 was a general date by which time everyone will realize the world they thought they were living in was over. The civil war in the United States will start in 2004. I would describe it as having a Waco type event every month that steadily gets worse. The conflict will consume everyone in the US by 2012 and end in 2015 with a very short WWIII.

The source of power for the C204 that allows it to distort and manipulate gravity comes from two microsingularities that were created, captured and cleaned at a much larger and circular facility. The dual event horizons of each one and their mass is manipulated by injecting electrons onto the surface of their respective ergospheres. The electricity comes from batteries. The breakthrough that will allow for this technology will occur within a year or so when CERN brings their larger facility online.

Perhaps it would have been clearer to state that the math has been around since 1970. I would urge you to examine the properties of Kerr black holes and Tipler cylinders. An actual working prototype was first tested in 2034. On my worldline, time travel is not a public recreation but we are all aware that it exists. You may be disappointed to know that the ability to manipulate gravity is not the technical challenge that had to be overcome. Miniaturizing the clocks and sensors, creating clever ways to vent x-rays and creating a computer system dependable enough to calculate the changes required to the field were the main challenges. There are no missing piecesjust missing energy levels and a few very interesting subatomic particles.

Posted by Mel Reckling on 02-01-2001 10:42 AM

JOHN,

I always thought a good question to ask a time traveler
would be: When is the next triple crown won in horse racing and what is that horse's name. Those events are few and far between and generally remembered. They should stand out in most people's minds. This could be a good little test. A winner of some obscure 10k race in Utah nobody would remember, but Derby winners and especially Triple Crown winners hold international prominence.

Posted by John Titor on 02-01-2001 11:28 AM

Unfortunatly, winners of historical sports betting events are not high on the priority list of people in 2036. As a thought experiemnt, If I did tell you who the winning horse was and you killed it before the final race, would that make me a liar or would it support my statement that our worldlines are about 2% different? Do you know who won that race 30 years ago?

Posted by Matt Hagemeier on 02-01-2001 11:55 AM

John. a fee questions: what is the political climate like in the U.S in your current timeline? I mean, what form of government is there?

Posted by Charles Moltrup on 02-01-2001 12:04 PM

Talking

Sorry about the flip question you do know your computers but still why didn't you buy a CRAY computer second hand they are much more reliable.Have a nice flight BACK TO THE FUTURE

Posted by Grant Nelson on 02-01-2001 07:21 PM

John, you are right about the significance of the 5100 so I tend to believe most of what you say about the near future will also come to pass in my personal time line.

I propose a little experiment.

I will come look you up if I happen to be in Florida in 2036 and we can talk computers or go fishing.

PS Next time somebody asks which team won a particular game just tell 'em it was the one that scored the most points.

Posted by John Tooker on 02-02-2001 02:21 AM

Thumbs up

Hey,
You're a traveller too? Have you ever interacted with any of the pre 1983 staff, at Montauk? If so, you may have met me. When I was working there, I was a R&D assistant to Dr. Von Neumann, and was known as Daniel John Waters, and had a rank of Lt. Col., in the Psi Corps.
I looked exactly like Jack Parsons, in that incarnation, and was in on the "rebellion" that Al Bielek, Preston Nichols, et al were on, and was working with Duncan Cameron on the specific night everything went down.
I discovered this largely via recovered memories, and psychical research, but my website, and story, can be read at [ Register or Signin to view external links. ] , but I have no hard evidence that this person existed. Which is why I'm trying to contact other travellers.
BTW, this isn't my original timeline, as I believe that I jumped timelines, not long after doing some work with Steve Gibbs, on his trip up to Calgary, Canada.
John

Posted by John Tooker on 02-02-2001 02:24 AM

Thumbs up

Hey,
You're a traveller too? Have you ever interacted with any of the pre 1983 staff, at Montauk? If so, you may have met me. When I was working there, I was a R&D assistant to Dr. Von Neumann, and was known as Daniel John Waters, and had a rank of Lt. Col., in the Psi Corps.
I looked exactly like Jack Parsons, in that incarnation, and was in on the "rebellion" that Al Bielek, Preston Nichols, et al were on, and was working with Duncan Cameron on the specific night everything went down.

John

Posted by Kevin Spooner on 02-02-2001 04:03 AM

Angry

And I just loved wasting my time looking at how to be informed about cannibis... wanna try again? Perhaps check the link?

Posted by John Titor on 02-02-2001 06:34 AM

If you could change one thing about your government right now, what would it be?

The United States is still a representative republic in 2036 but it was touch and go for a while. After the war, the U.S. had divided into 5 general areas based on their economic and defensive strengths. Many people blamed the government organization for the war and the last Constitutional Congress was held in 2020 to officially scrap the Constitution and start over. Fortunately, this exercise in anger pointed out how hard it was to come up with anything better. It was decided the document wasnt at fault. As a result, there have been a few small changes to the Constitution and the executive branch but you would easily recognize it. The average citizen is more educated about the Constitution and aware of the rights and responsibilities it gives them. Federal power has been decentralized and the focus of daily politics is in the state senates. Federal law has also been streamlined but much harder to change or make additions to.

The people who sign my paycheck told me why we needed a 5100 and sent me off to get one. I was not in a position to make alternate suggestions. As I recall, isnt the Cray a rather large system? We need something portable. The 5100 isnt required for its reliability, its needed to translate between APL, UNIX and a few obscure IBM mainframe languages.

The fishing is great and youre more than welcome to join us but the me here is only three. Ill have to tell him your coming.

Posted by James R.Quayle III on 02-02-2001 06:49 AM

Cool

Greetings TT Titor,I have not been on this site in a long while,I am acquantinces with Al Bielek,and I have been in close quarters with beings not human and not from this place or time.The Humans who talk with you on this post have not asked you yet how you feel about your travels?How has it effected you emotionally,Do you age ?Does the hair grow on your face faster,do your nails grow quicker,Does the air taste different in different time periods?How is the food in the future,Have you tried to eat things not found in your time?Do you know me in the future?I plan on living 120 years,so i am sure going to look for you later 35 years from now i will be 66,I was born in 1970.I have met a few other TT people(TimeTravel),I did not ask them about lotteries or sh1t like that(How petty)I like my time,but i see Traveling into Another Time and Space as too much for most humans,to think on different levels,to not lose oneself,to not fall in love or like with peoples from different times.That must be the hardest,to not be able to connect with others that would be traumatized by the info given by a TT person.Wether your from here nor there matters not, thanks for helping the ones from this Time think of what they are and where they may be heading.Agentq3 Blessed Be in your travels!

Posted by Mel Reckling on 02-02-2001 07:52 AM

John,
I know sports questions are not good for you, so how about a couple of other questions? Does GW survive his presidency or is there an attempt on his life? That should be historically documented. Do the current inhabitants of this here planet travel to Mars between now and 2036? If that is the case when does that happen? n,

Posted by Chris Greycheck on 02-02-2001 09:42 AM

Question

OK, this John Titor guy obviously is really into science fiction, a scientist, or is actually a TT'er.

Trust me, I would *really* love to believe that you are from the future. So as Mike suggested, instead of going on about fantastic time machine components and WW3, why not actually gain some credibility by correctly telling NEAR future events? Indeed, you are very convincing with your stories of what you claim will be, but unless you actually *prove* who you claim to be, quit wasting our time...you may as well be beating your head against the wall.

Although, if you consistently tell of near-future events, you will rightly gain all our respect, and we will be hanging off your every word...

As I said, I want to beleive, but don't give us the typical "I don't need to prove myself, I am not here to do that" Well you should be!...Why come on here and spend all that time with your stories, if everyone discounts you as a crackpot. If you want us to actually *listen* to you, then prove yourself! I know that the *first* thing that I would do if I claimed to be a time traveller, is *consistently* tell of *near*-future events...whether it's politics or entertainment...just give us *anything* that we can all relate to...

I don't mean to sound cynical and negative, but if you want us to beleive you, then just do what I suggest, and quit being so evasive.

Thanks.

[Edited by Chris Greycheck on 02-02-2001 at 10:07 AM]
Posted by John Titor on 02-02-2001 10:09 AM

Yes, I age and my hair and nails grow at normal rates. Please keep in mind that gravity distortion does involve some dilation effects but jumping between worldlines are timelike trips, not spacelike trips. The air is about the same although I do smell and taste industrial odors here my parents cannot. The food in the future is grown and raised naturally inside the community structure. This is done primarily for safety reasons. I am amazed at the risks people here are willing to take with processed food. All of the food I eat here is grown and prepared by myself or my family. Unfortunately, I do not know if we are acquainted on my worldline. Yes, love is a challenge. Whats harder is knowing you could go back and correct a mistake but at the cost of the you on that worldline you want to live your life over again on.

The questions about the president and space travel are reasonable but now we come to a conflict between physics and ethics. First, the ethics:

I have seen a television program about a man who is able to speak with the dead. When I watch the show, I am more afraid about the possibility that what he is doing is real not weather or not he is doing it. Since I will be leaving this worldline in the coming year, I could easily tell you that the President lives or dies in the next four years. In fact, I could probably find some way to even charge you for it. When the day comes for my prediction to be realized it will either happen or not. If it does happen, then your ability to judge your environment is crippled by your acceptance of me as a knower of all things and gifted with the ability to tell the future. If I am wrong, then everything I have said that might possibly have made you think about your world in a different way is suddenly discredited. I do not want either. Although I do have personal reasons for being here and speaking with you, the most I could hope for is that you recognize the possibility of time travel as a reality. You are able to change your worldine for better or worse just as I am. Although this will make me a far less interesting time traveler, these are the rules I personally try to hold to:

1. I will not disclose any information that will cause someone to personally gain by its knowledge. This means no stock or sports tips.

2. I will not disclose any detailed information that would allow someone to avoid death by probability. This means no earthquake or bomb information.

3. I will not disclose any information that may compromise any future actions by individual people or threaten their family and well-being. I will not disclose names or events associated with individuals.

Now for the physics: The grandfather paradox is impossible. In fact, all paradox is impossible. The Everett-Wheeler-Graham or multiple world theory is correct. All possible quantum states, events, possibilities and outcomes are real, eventual and occurring. The chances of everything happening someplace at sometime in the superverse is 100%. (For all you scientists out there, if Schrodingers cat had a time machine, he might not be in the box at all.)

Therefore, there is a worldline where you are alive and another worldline where you have gone back in time to kill your relative and the you on the new worldline wont be born but you the killer is still running around there. Differences between worldlines are measured from the perspective of the time traveler in terms of divergence percentage. The higher the divergence, the more un-like your destination worldline looks like compared to your worldline of origin.

Therefore, any prediction I might make has a slight chance of being incorrect anyway and you now have the ability to act on it based on what Ive said. Can you stop the war before it gets here? Sure. Will you do it? Probably not.

As far as space travel goes... no, we are not on Mars yet but were trying very hard so we can avoid another Hells Kitchen outcome from an overpopulated Earth

Posted by Chris Greycheck on 02-02-2001 10:26 AM

John,

As I read more and more of your posts, I am admittedly intrigued, but increasingly annoyed by your insistance.

OK, fine, there are ethical issues, relating to lotto numbers and gambling, so tell us something like how many will be found dead in the earthquake in India. Tell us
something that happens in politics on a national level.
Surely you can tell us *something* that has a neutral moral effect on society.

You stated:

"Although I do have personal reasons for being here and speaking with you, the most I could hope for is that you recognize the possibility of time travel as a reality"

Tell us something we don't know!! Look at what message board you are on!! How redundant can one be? Of course it's not unreasonable that most of us on here certainly think that time travel is a possibility!!..come on...

"2. I will not disclose any detailed information that would allow someone to avoid death by probability. This means no earthquake or bomb information"

Why not? What the hell is wrong with you? If I knew someone was going to be in a situation where they may die, and there was a chance I could stop it, I have the moral obligation to do something about it.

John, it's becoming clearer to me that you are simply a fraud...how sad indeed...you can still save yourself, but you better do it soon.

Posted by John Titor on 02-02-2001 10:53 AM

Perhaps it would be better if you just considered me a fraud. I really dont have a problem with that. If that were the case, could we then have discussions that you were comfortable with?

((Why not? What the hell is wrong with you? If I knew someone was going to be in a situation where they may die, and there was a chance I could stop it, I have the moral obligation to do something about it.))

I can think of a couple of examples.

If the Egyptians knew the Red Sea was going to drown them, do you think they would have pursued Moses?

If you could go back in time to 1941 and tell the radar operators to take a second look at the radar screen on December 7th, would you? Before you say yes and accept that parade in your honor down main street, perhaps you should go forward in time and see if the U.S still had the motivation to make the A-bomb before Hitler did.

Posted by James R.Quayle III on 02-02-2001 10:59 AM

Thank you for your timely reply,and i feel if i am not someone you recognize as a future name known then how about
you let me know if Newport Beach is a bad place to be in case of a war?Nuked area?Probably,i bet.What area is a good one to be in when the nukes fall?Have you met any other time travelers besides yourself?Have you ever had an alien encounter?Because i have had some very interesting meetings with ET's.agentq3Thank you again for your time john titor

Posted by Craig Cuthbert on 02-02-2001 11:00 AM

John -

Can you give us some brief personal stories of your past? For instance, in relation to history what were some of your growing up sagas?

Can you tell us how China and Africa make their way into the 21st Century?

Jazz -Swing -BeBop -R&B -Rock 'n Roll -Disco -Rap/HipHop - ....what comes next???

Do Crop Circles play a part in labeling these micromeasurements in time of gravity/energy?

Posted by Chris Greycheck on 02-02-2001 11:09 AM

Question

John,

I am certainly not uncomfortable in thinking that you are a fraud, although it would bring me (and others) great comfort if you could prove yourself.

You chose only to reply to my statement of the moral obligation to help others if you knew they were going to die, (but still not directly, as I was saying that if you knew someone who was going to be in a life-threatening situation, especially a family member or friend, it's your duty to get them out of it...I was not talking about people who knew of their imminent deaths...and your 1941 example was not clear...

Yet you didn't bother to reply to me when I said that you were being redundant when you say that your wish is to get others to believe that time travel is a possibility. Again, I will say, that the whole premise of this board is based on the paranormal, and if anything, most of us *already* believe that time travel is a possibility, ncluding myself...so your many posts on this board are on the basis of redundancy.

Again I will ask: Tell us something that is morally neutral, like a near-future event in Hollywood or politics...something...come on, I am giving you chance after chance, I want to beleive...

I am trying to be objective about this, but as you continually evade and dodge the real questions, you become less and less credible.

Posted by James Boley on 02-02-2001 11:17 AM

John,

I applaud your story. It would make for a great book or Hollywood movie.

You keep mentioning ethics as an excuse not to divulge information of the near future, however you still freely talk about other items such as the physics behind your machine or facts about the far future.

I have a hard time believing that time travel, if possible and if it will be done, would be done in such a lax way. What would happen if you, while traveling on personel business, died while visiting yourself. Or what if a scientist reading this thread who in the future will develop time travel alters his patterns of study and changes the future, thus changing you thus changing everything?

The mere chance of a severe dominoe effect would, I believe, limit time travel on a very strict and limited manner, if it is allowed at all! Why would a group of seemingly inteligent people risk changing there present on the desire to see themselves in the past?

While entertaining, your story is bogus.

Posted by Randy Empey on 02-02-2001 11:36 AM

Based on the models John professes to beleive and to be the basis on the tech. that got him here, many of your reasons for disbelief, particular those just mentioned by James . . . are easily shot down or at least deflected.

If it is not the truth for John, it is atleast an ingeniously well constructed story.

Lets talk about those things John has been repetitiously asking to talk about . . . since, John's being a TT may be his reality, but at the same time, never be part of one of us critique's realities.

Posted by John Titor on 02-02-2001 11:41 AM

I fail to understand why my words generate so much conflict. I think its far better for you to consider what I say as fantasy so there is no question of credibility. How is my credibility going to affect your life? I dont want you to believe me and it doesnt affect me in the least if you did.

I dont know any other way to tell you that I am unaware of what happens in the next week, especially in Hollywood. Just curiousthat's a common question, why do you think I would know something about that?

Yes, its very possible that what I say would spin your future off into a different direction. But since what I say is bogus that shouldnt be a problem.

On a philosophical level, the existence of multiple worlds implies a moral balance in the superverse. For every worldline you perform a good action, there is a worldline where you perform a bad action. There are no good and bad people, just good and bad decisions. We can only be responsible for what we do as individuals on the worldline we are on now. So take heart! Somewhere out there is a worldline where Im spilling all the beans on Hockey, the stock market and Hollywood and youre all off to Vegas and Wall Street making millions of dollars.

I do very much enjoy these conversations and Im working on the other questions

Posted by Matt Hagemeier on 02-02-2001 11:50 AM

john, I really don't have much complaint about government, Although not perfect I still beilieve this is the best place to live on the planet. One thing the governemt needs to do is decriminelize drugs. The drug war is a useless wat.

So is the civil war started by those anti-gov types?

The next question is religion, if time travel is possible, what does that do to the reilgious? If I exist on many time lines, which one is really me? Did God create one "me", or many "me's"

What about movies, TV, Sports, Nebraska Cornhusker football, please don;t tell me there us no husker football in 2036.

Posted by James Boley on 02-02-2001 01:05 PM

John,

Rereading my last post, bogus came off a little strong. I did not mean to conflict with you per se, but tell you I don't believe your story.

There are a couple of questions I would like answered.

First if you don't care if we believe you or not, why are you posting here? What purpose do you have to tell part of your story?

Next, I assume that you would have superiors over seeing your work. What do they think of your use of the equipment for personel reasons?

Are you afraid of altering your reality in our future or your present in the slightest?

You have mentioned that there is a flux of change for every 60 years. This would suggest to me that you are also traveling across dimensions or as Star Trek lingo suggests, alternate realities. 8^) If you are doing this, is there any concern of yours or your comrades that you are affecting our future? Would that concern you if it did not affect you?

Is there such a thing, in your reality, as crimes against time? For example, killing an enemy while he is a child? Or changing the past to make your present more pleasant (lotteries and gaming franchises have been mentionned)?

I have said I do not believe your story, but I hope you will still answer my questions.

Posted by Craig Cuthbert on 02-02-2001 03:23 PM

50% of the world lives on $2.00 a day and a good portion of those not even that (general One-Worlder figure per Jimmy Carter on NPR the other day). Many of these people think the whole notion of a western world is a big myth. People living in tribes in parts of Africa, South America, and Western China would laugh if you were to tell them there are cities with more than a million people in them - they have automatic vehicles for transport - some even fly -, they communicate electronically, wash and cook using machines etc. That's RIGHT HERE ON THIS PLANET. Should we go tell them about us? This concept right away illustrates some illusions about our (Western Worlders') presence in the world.

John can you say more regarding this phenomenon and how future societies (might) handle the new frontiers of technology in our world?

About 4 or 5 years ago Art Bell had on a guest involved in researching feral humans. He told of a remote Venezuelan tribe that refused to believe there was a city such as Caracas. HE described how the senior tribesman tried to relate to the notion that there was such a type of civilization anywhere near them.

A couple of years before that I had some adventures here in the US. I began traveling around the country staying at Youth Hostels and working where I could. I found myself riding freight trains in the Pacific Northwest and had a last minute rider in my car. He threw his stuff in, climbed aboard and we had quite a few hours of conversation. He was a migrant worker who was starting the Apple Orchard season. (A not uncommon occupation for unskilled labor both foreign and domestic in the Northwest -though most non-immigrant workers will head out on the fishing boats for good/hard-earned money).

HE told me about leaving his little village in Oaxaca many years ago. When he left he was convinced that the jungle surrounding his village just continued on forever and was really surprised when he found other landscapes- cities-cultures. HE spent quite a few years listening to talk radio shows on his little walkmans, working and travelling. I was really surprised about how much he knew of history, politics, science and even overseas cultures.

I also have to say that, what I saw of Freight Train Riders, during this period. represented a fairly evolved subculture, and one not very involved in what we would consider the NORMAL world.

PBS ran the Jazz series a few weeks ago. When Louis Armstrong finally made the leap out of New Orleans and Kansas City to travel to New York to play with "King" Oliver's band he was FOB (fresh off the boat), in a way. Dressed funny, and gawking at all the huge buildings of which was convinced were all Universities - huge Towers of Learning.

My father grew up in a little! town in the hills of western Pennsylvania. His parents were not the most educated tools in the shed. He has told me since that often when he was little he wondered whether all the stories about places like France, Germany etc. were just made up tales that got passed around on the radio and in print. Of course that could have been just him <g>.

Just some examples, to me at least, about how little we know of the world ... of which we think we know so much.

Posted by Craig Cuthbert on 02-02-2001 04:06 PM

The previous examples were all - of the uneducated "others" in the world, obviously.

WE, of course, are a part of that group which ranks itself at the very pinnacle of evolutionary capabilities.

Posted by Lee Heggy on 02-02-2001 04:29 PM

I am from 4535...no wait, thats my address. Sorry.

Posted by Grant Nelson on 02-02-2001 07:20 PM

James wrote "John, I applaud your story. It would make for a great book or Hollywood movie."

James. it did ! good prediction from one remote viewer. [ IT, the movez: was popularized in late 20th century good returns at the box office and widely circulated on illegal DVD discs . Just before the lights went out in 2001 it played to appreciative audiences in LA & NY.

John, I been thinking about the "fission" trip and wanted to tell you about one of my favorite places. I always try and land on the Shell Mound just north of Cedar Key every so many seconds.
For some reason it always works. Minimal distortion. Maybe its because the People have eaten oysters on this spot of 10 x 4 years or maybe more if one believes the Miami Circle evidence. Why just the other day some neighbors were burning some ol' logs they got out of the drying up lake bed and you know what ? The arch*e*olo*gee people landed like ***** on **** and wanted to know what the ++++ they were doing burning thousand year old native american dug out canoes for to keep warm. in the oil crisis.
They said a "little child" had told them to do it. Noonans Lake. General Noonan was only there for ten days during the last Civil War. The People enjoyed this land for many many many moons. Go figure. 10 days 10,000 years. is this a log factor ?

You could send me the current GPS co ordinates for where I'm talking about and also set your cessium clock to remind you where to meet up in 2036. Since you been there and done that I will let you pick a day. My birthday for example.

note that I have email and am a real person, unlike some journalists you may have encountered.

You all come on over and visit while I'm here. grant

PS Maybe the only place [bicycle distance] in 1976 to go for computer tech was either U.F. Gainesville or up Tallahassee way. You know, where the high energy magnetics lab is located? In 1976 you would have maybe dealt with NERD*c or some such entity. Welcome back.

[Edited by Grant Nelson on 02-02-2001 at 07:45 PM]
Posted by Anthony D'Amato on 02-02-2001 07:30 PM

Hi I am from Beliviue, looking for John Titor.

Posted by Craig Cuthbert on 02-03-2001 09:09 AM

John - read your page. Guess you're saying the troubles we avoid(ed) during the Y2K scare might be seen as similar to the consequences of not having had Pearl Harbor saved.

---"This is one example of a theory involving "time shells" progressing in size and intensity around a gravitational point from all matter. The more massive the object, the larger and more influential the time shells around it (like an onion). ---

Like an isobaric map of potential time lines and "intentions".

"Perhaps I should let you all in on a little secret. No one likes you in the future.

LOL

Figures...
I'm not sure I like many of us right now.

Posted by Craig Cuthbert on 02-03-2001 09:15 AM

Exclusive of everyone here, that is. :-)

Posted by Mel Reckling on 02-03-2001 09:29 AM

JOHN,
Two more questions. Is there official disclosure or any sudden revelations in the area of an ET prescence and how is the world view of our space in the whole scheme of things. In other words do we by 2036 know for sure we're not alone? I do remember who won the triple crown about 30 years ago; Secretariat in 1973, also I think Affirmed did it in 1978. I don't think it has been done since. I have no way to prosper from knowing whether GW makes it through his presidency, I just thought it would be a good question. Odds are in your favor to say he doesn't. I'm just trying to formulate non-invasive ways to see if you are who you say you are. I have a keen interest in this amazing field and unfortunately we have seen too many people who, if you are for real, have made it difficult for you. To tell you the truth I hope you are for real.

Posted by Kevin Spooner on 02-04-2001 11:37 PM

Question

But then I suppose anyone dealing in transvectoring across multiple timeflows eventually crosses itself in the fore or aft directions. We know that time is a maleable product and so too are the options of this linear flow. So then... if that is the case how could one establish that *this* timeline is *the* prime and all the others are variants that may cross on periods like a biorhythym. More I suspect they are all prime in and of themselves and we simply have attached to this particular one.

Personally I like the Spiritualist ideal of pre-physical choice - I chose to be here, I chose this existence, extending that to...I chose this timeline. Maybe also their perspective of being a part of God within their own makeup to the extent of being able to choose futures is also evident - how do you know you have not cognitely chosen your personal direction a billion times and not even realised at this moment all the choices you have made along time to get to this point thus far.

Its a bit like realising that what to Spirit are Spiritual powers is in the weaker sense to the Physical (us) with its Psychic powers... we only know so much but in the Spiritual worlds we know so much more... consciousness expansion.

Just my tuppence inbetween our venerable TT's absence. Cheers all.

Posted by John Michael Davis on 02-05-2001 12:38 AM

Talking

I don't believe in the possibility of time travel - the transendence of time/space a total other framed reference but an individual revelation that really translates everyday realities - then but to visit the age of the dinasours on some planet - that would to me be traveling time - veiwing our own development on swell universal fractals - and we are the et's - syncronizing galactic calandrical systems - what of the machine - that we have been born here - living the first years of our lives among them - room and board - all at once and eternal.

Posted by Kevin Spooner on 02-05-2001 01:28 AM

Really? If you do not believe in Time travel then I suggest for discussion that you CHOOSE not to believe. Do you believe in ET's or UFO's - choices. Do you believe that the rest of the world or the known universe exists - choices. Do you believe you were born of sin - choices. You choose not to believe - this is not the same as the ability for it to exist.

Ah then the critic would say... ok TT... demonstrate. Yes I'd love a demonstration - but more - the specifics on its design and a guide on correct ethics and use. I have not seen a Time Travel device that I am aware of - but that does not mean I do not believe - especially in the potential.

All things can be created, all things can be - the difference is I chose not to make the choice of yes or no - I believe or I don't until it slaps me like a wet fish.

And where is our venerable TT John T? Hope you are well friend - and yes, I was very serious about ethics and technology. But alas, all requests have met with zero in my hands to work with. But still - I choose to be patient.

Posted by Craig Cuthbert on 02-05-2001 07:30 AM

Potential Hazard of being a Time Traveler --- Always putting things off until you can "get back" to doing them. LOL

Posted by John Titor on 02-05-2001 11:28 AM

As far as the war goes, my best advice is to find at least 5 people within 100 miles of you that you trust with your life.

No, I havent met any other time travelers here and although from my perspective thats highly unlikely, its not impossible. No, I dont have any additional information concerning crop circles, ETs or UFOs. I find those subjects rather interesting myself and its one of the reasons I was drawn to this web site.

((Can you give us some brief personal stories of your past? For instance, in relation to history what were some of your growing up sagas?))

I was born in 1998 so I do share some childhood memories with all of you. I remember going to Disney World at Christmas and I remember going to the beach in Daytona.
When the civil conflict started and got worse, people generally decided to either stay in the cities and lose most of their civil rights under the guise of security or leave the cities for more isolated and rural areas. Our home was searched once and the neighbor across the street was arrested for some unknown reason. That convinced my father to leave the city.

From the age of 8 to 12, we lived away from the cities and spent most of our time in a farm community with other families avoiding conflict with the federal police and national guard. By that time, it was pretty clear that we were not going back to what we had and the division between the cities and the country was well defined. My father made a living by putting together 12-volt electrical systems and sailing commodities up and down the coast of Florida. I spent most of my time helping him.

Outright open fighting was common by then and I joined a shotgun infantry unit in 2011. I served with the Fighting Diamondbacks for about 4 years. (Hearing in my right ear isnt as good as I would like it). The civil war ended in 2015 when Russia attacked the U.S. cities (our enemy), China and Europe. As unusual and bad as my childhood might seem, I wouldnt trade it for anything.

Africa is not a pleasant place to be in 2036 although I would characterize it as recovering.

The music you enjoy now is quite popular and available its just not produced in anywhere near the same amount. There is a revival of local and classical music. Many people have learned to play their own. I personally enjoy Big Band, some Classical and interesting lyrical pieces from the 1970s and 1980s.

((if time travel is possible, what does that do to the reilgious? If I exist on many time lines, which one is really me? Did God create one "me", or many "me's"))

This is an excellent question that causes a great deal of controversy. Since every possible outcome, event and possibility is happening and will happen, then all good and all evil balances out in the superverse. After the reality of multiple worlds sank into our collective thought, the one basic change to all religious dogma is the concept that good and evil does not exist as an organized force in our lives nor can it be used as a useful way to judge what God may think of a situation. Good and evil are personal experiences that can only guide what we do as individuals and how we relate to others. This outlook also makes it impossible for me to judge any other person or event. We cannot see the entire universe as God sees it therefore we will never be Gods or be capable of judging anything outside of ourselves. My actions can only be judged as good and bad by me and my God.

There is also an area of thought that maintains all of the yous out there will make up the you that eventually returns to God. In that manner, it is frustrating to know that you are capable of and acting on all of the thoughts and ideas you have regardless of what the you here is doing. How good or evil do you think you can be?

There is even an idea (supported in physics apparently but I have a hard time with this one) that there is some sort of communication going on between all of the yous that are out there. Some people think that memories, intuition and conscious are actually attempts by one version of you to talk to another.

Yes, we still have football and you will easily recognize it in 2036.

I am posting here because I enjoy talking with people without having to hide who I am, its safe for me and my family and I can gather historical information from you and the web.

Yes, I have superiors. However, from their perspective, I will only have been gone a split second. The only real risk I am taking is spending too long outside my main line and risking a probability error (dying, accident, etc.). Based on the physics of gravity displacement, I cant leave when I ever I want anyway and I do have some leeway into how I conduct my mission.

It is impossible for me to change any worldline that I am not on. Nothing I do here will affect my home. The 60 year flux is a limitation of my machine, not of physics. Jet planes cant fly into space, my machine is not reliable past a 60 + year destination.

Youve been to Cedar Key? You must be aware I dont know any personal information about you. If I was just going to guess, I would say it's important to avoid the rattlesnake or you might be walking back to shore. You may be happy to know that although the bridge is gone, Cedar Key is still there.

The computer is from 1975, Rochester Mn.

Yes, the Pearl Harbor example relates to Y2K. Have you considered that I might already have accidentally screwed up your worldline?

((Potential Hazard of being a Time Traveler --- Always putting things off until you can "get back" to doing them.))

Whats even worse is having the ability to go back and help the you there and you wont listen to yourself.

Posted by James Boley on 02-05-2001 01:32 PM

Is there any sort of a log in your machine to show where and when you stopped? Will your superiors check that?

Is there crimes against time? Can you get in trouble for altering a time line?

Philisophical question. While in your alleged time travels you meet a man an convince him to go somewhere with you, causing him not to meet his future wife. Because of this a certain child is not born, and denied existance. Are you guilty because of this change? You may have known this unborn child in the future. It may have even been your friend.

And if that child would grow up to stop this civil war in the future, and mankind is better for it (no doubt saving several of your friends and family members), would you feel guilty?

Maybe this is a better question. Does what happen here affect your future?

Posted by John Titor on 02-05-2001 02:09 PM

Yes, there is a log and my report and debriefing will agree with it. I have no reason to lie about where I am and why Im here.

There are no crimes against time. However, if I were to go on some sort of a murder spree and I admitted it when I returned, then I would be held responsible for the crime of murder.

I am no more able to affect your worldline than you are. Yes, I could make the changes you suggested but you must remember that there are an infinite number of worldlines out there where I didnt and I dont. In fact, theres even a worldline out there where youre the time traveler and Im the one writing the question.

I think the war would be good for you and your society. I dont want to stop it.

Nothing I do here will affect any other worldline. My original worldline will always be the same and yes I can make changes here that would make this worldline different from mine but so can you.

Posted by Chris McWhirt on 02-05-2001 05:56 PM

John,
1) What effect will following technologies have
MEMs(microelectromechanicals)
quantum computers
fuel cells

2) WHich GE group builds time machine?

Posted by Mike Kolesnik on 02-05-2001 07:48 PM

... and how many Suckers he reels in!

People, I can't belive your gullibility.
Please apply some basic Common Sense, Logic
and a detective's view of "John's" statements.

Before I waste more of my precious time uncovering this Fakir I need some help from any of you. I'm looking for at least ONE post where the poster has gone thru "John's" statements and found some contradictions. (there are MANY)
I need to know if any of you are worth saving from this *Prophet*

Who is "John"?
1. A bored college student (or group) on a dare or assignment?

2. A former Y2k doom and gloomer finding a new flock?

3. A Member of Skeptical Enquirer playing an early April Fool's Joke?

4. A mentally disturbed individual enjoying his 15 minutes of Fame?

5. I real time traveller? (HA! see below)

Some Items:
(In spite of Star Trek storylines)

1. There are NO "alternate worldlines" There are ONLY Possibilities and Probabilities. One of the Possibilities MAY occur and, one and ONLY one of the Probabilities WILL occur. There are NO multiple worldlines, histories, or whatever occuring at this or any time. There are no proven, half-proven, or .001% proven data for multiple Earths.
There are only Star Trekein blabberings.

Once an event occurs it NEVER changes( except for What special happenings?- you should know this John!)

2. Hey "John", show me the symbol and formula for the relationship between Gravity and Magnetism. It should be child's play for you and a fundamental part of ANY TT machine. It is Quite simple.

3. I know a certain FACT about time travel, you haven't mentioned it and it is an absolutely VITAL part of TT. Tell me what it is. I'll give you a hint: It has TWO special requirements!
------------------

WAKE UP PEOPLE AND THINK FOR YOURSELF!!!!

Posted by Kathleen Sander on 02-05-2001 11:15 PM

Do you live within the vicinity of your 2-year old self? Have you seen yourself face to face or do you have any intentions of doing so?

Posted by Kevin Spooner on 02-06-2001 04:05 AM

Angry

Dear Mike Kolesnik,

Either you are a person who knows about time travel in the flesh so to speak or you contradict yourself by making out hat you do. You have challenged John Titor into revealing specific answers which you claim to have current knowledge of. Further you make yourself out to be some kind of 'saviour' wondering if any of us require 'saving' so long as we meet your expectations of us. Even more you state there are contradictions in John's writing.

Personally I don't need saving from you and in fact I am not following lines of gullability. Rather I too have asked direct questions and placed challenges to all time travelers.

Further, any segmented regular writing of this nature on any BBS will create natural discrepencies - even I suspect in your own and mine to boot. Such is life in the slow lane with us mere mortals.

Please place here you seal of Godliness incarnate for others to marvel at and rather than attack others (which is not in keeping with fair play) please feel free to join our quest for knowledge... which I suspect you are attempting to do in a rather vicious manner.

God bless and may knowledge strike us like a wet fish soon !

Posted by Craig Cuthbert on 02-06-2001 06:05 AM

I'm trying to figure out why I haven't seen Mike Kolesnik's name in any of the esteemed journals that debate Time Travel. You know, the one's chaired by graduates of MIT, Princeton, Yale, Stanford...? Surely having the answers to the nature of *"reality" would be worth pursuing with others whose careers are based on research. Isn't this the same type of reasoning used by debunkers against anything THEY find unreasonable?

C'mon Mike, unsnit those panties and ask yourself why you care whether this is true or not.

AS far as Mr. Titor is concerned ... How do you finance your excursion? I would venture its not totally on the level with current financial accounting procedures.

That said, I apologize, though I feel I have to withhold some of my investigative curiosities, as I have a niece who is exactly your age and I could sense the possibility of a confluence that at this point which could precipitate greater than expected divergences.

Around the mid-nineties I came to my conclusion re: the "isobaric" nature of both gravity and time. Like anything, I suspect the gradients involved are miniscule by our finite standards, though 10% or 15% divergence over 60 years sounds about right.

* "There are NO "alternate worldlines" There are ONLY Possibilities and Probabilities. One of the Possibilities MAY occur and, one and ONLY one of the Probabilities WILL occur. There are NO multiple worldlines, histories, or whatever occuring at this or any time. There are no proven, half-proven, or .001% proven data for multiple Earths."

Posted by John Titor on 02-06-2001 06:35 AM

[[[ATTENTION! The following is a secret message for all mindless robot slaves controlled by time travelers. If you are unable to read this, please disregard it. This is an emergency, can someone do me a favor and look up everything they can find on Maxwells equations, relativity and the formulas for volts and amps. I left all my physics books back in the time machineand remember, just because I control your mind doesnt mean I think youre an idiot. MESSAGE OVER.]]]
Yes, there are significant advances in computer science. It's interesting how easy it is to be fixated on the machine itself without any curiosity about many of the support systems. This is not really big news but if / then is out and if /then /maybe is in.

Yes I am with the me on this worldline and he is three now. I find that fact to be rather hard for people to get along with so I dont bring it up directly. This is the second time I have met myself.

The machine is owned by the military. I am part of a unit stationed in Tampa Florida. The real energy is in creating the machine, not operating it. Its interesting you should bring up the divergence percentage. You may find itentertainingly interesting to know that the divergence can be more accurate with more sensitive gravity sensors and clocks. The C206 uses 6 Cesium clocks and an active method of timing the changes in the atom.

Posted by James Boley on 02-06-2001 06:47 AM

Why does your kind time travel?

You mentioned that in the future, or in your future for the sake of the arguement, that you still believe in God. How does God play in these infinite number of 'time lines'. Are there infinite number of Gods? One for each timeline?

How does a persons soul play into this? Are you suggesting there are infinite number of my souls around?

Posted by Charlotte Boren on 02-06-2001 07:11 AM

(1) Who wins the Triple Crown for the next 20 years?

(2) Who will be elected president for the next 20 years?

(3) Will there still be Harley-Davidsons around when you are born?

(4) Please list the price of gold for the last 20 of your years and I can tell you the condition of the stock market in the future.

(5) Will it still be fairly lawful for me to own and use handguns when are beginning your time travel adventures?

(6) Is it possible for you to bump into yourself when you are time travelling? Saw a Jean Claude Van Dam movie about that once. I think it was called "Time Cop". Whatever you do, don't shake hands with yourself, if you do meet. You melt.

(7) I go on vacation in May. Can I go with you the next time you leap? I have an ex-husband I want to punch in the nose when he walks up to the 1981 me the first time we met and says "Hi." I'll get the 1981 me pushed out of the way with a 1981 broom or something. It won't take much to convince the 1981 me that this is the 2001 her. I know her past too well---regrets and happiest moments. (Wonders if Scott Bakula is just as cute today as he was in "Quantum Leap".)

[Edited by Charlotte Boren on 02-06-2001 at 07:23 AM]
Posted by John Titor on 02-06-2001 08:33 AM

We time travel to solve problems. A great deal of effort is going into repairing the environment and infrastructure.

I think there is only one God. I also think that our soul may be a combination of all the collective thoughts and actions of the infinite yous. If that is true, it becomes very difficult to define death until all worldlines come to an end.

[(1) Who wins the Triple Crown for the next 20 years?] I dont know. Even if I did, you could stop the horse(s) anyway and make it untrue.
(2) Who will be elected president for the next 20 years?
Please see number 2.

(3) Will there still be Harley-Davidsons around when you are born?
I was born in 1998.

(4) Please list the price of gold for the last 20 of your years and I can tell you the condition of the stock market in the future.

I don't understand the importance of this type of information. Please tell me your opnion why this is interesting and worth remembering for 30 years.

(5) Will it still be fairly lawful for me to own and use handguns when are beginning your time travel adventures?

I thought owning a handgun was legal in the United States? Yes, being familiar with firearms (along with the other responsibilities of the Constitution) becomes an important part of peoples lives in thirty years.

(6) Is it possible for you to bump into yourself when you are time travelling? Saw a Jean Claude Van Dam movie about that once. I think it was called "Time Cop". Whatever you do, don't shake hands with yourself, if you do meet.

Yes that is possible and there are no limitations on interacting with them. I find it interesting that there is some sort of collective negativity with the idea of doing that. Could it be that we are not really that comfortable with ourselves and therefore we cannot imagine meeting, liking or helping another one of us on another worldline?

(7) I go on vacation in May. Can I go with you on your journys through time? Anybody else want to go along?
I could probably manage three people with me. However, I would have to dump a great deal of archival material to get you in. Im not sure you would like 2036 very much.

Posted by Matt Hagemeier on 02-06-2001 02:33 PM

John, the life you desrribe in 2036, sounds very much like life my grandparents described in the WW2 era. interesting indeed.

What was the reason for Russia's involvement in the civil war? Why did they bomb China and Europe?
Did the U.S counter attack with thier own nucler weapns?

Posted by John Lensk on 02-06-2001 03:25 PM

Question

Dear John,

I am very intrigued by your story, but some things dont make very much sense to me. This IBM 5100 computer you talk of having to go back in time to get is the first thing that does not make sense to me. What does the old 5100 computer do that computers of your time isnt able to do? Im sure the future will have a wide use of emulation technology, inwhich you could easily emulate this old computer and all of its uses. What would the original computer do that an emulated version of it not be able to do?

Posted by Kathleen Sander on 02-07-2001 01:02 AM

Could your parents tell something seemed familiar about you or have you only seen your 3-year old self? I guess you would have to re-meet your parents and be a friend of the family. Any changes in how children are taught? Education still "taught" in a classroom?

Posted by James Boley on 02-08-2001 08:27 AM

I still don't buy your story. There are inconsistancies that are to large to write off.

Some of the first posts you mentioned that you hoped your story would be at least interesting. It is.

Posted by John Titor on 02-08-2001 09:40 AM

Russia and China have always had a very strange relationship. Even the news I see now indicates that continued weapons deals to allies, border clashes and overpopulation will lead to hostilities. The West will become very unstable which gives China the confidence to expand. Im assuming you are all aware that China has millions of male soldiers right now that they know will never be able to find wives. The attack on Europe is in response to a unified European army that masses and moves East from Germany. Also, please be aware that from my viewpoint, Russia attacked my enemy who was in the U.S. cities. Yes, the U.S. did counter attack.

Based on what I know about the 5100, it has a few very interesting and worthwhile properties that make it worthwhile for a time traveler to recover. Also, please keep in mind that civilization is recovering from a war. Yes, we do have the technology but many of the tools were lost.

As you are probably aware, UNIX will have a timeout error in 2038 and many of the mainframe systems that ran a large part of the infrastructure were based on very old IBM computer code. The 5100 has the ability to easily translate between the old IBM code, APL, BASIC and (with a few tweaks in 1975) UNIX. This may seem insignificant but the fact that the 5100 is portable means I can easily take it back to 2036. I do expect they will create some sort of emulation system to use in multiple locations.

When I arrived, I approached my father and was easily able to prove to him who I was. I am currently with my parents and the me who is three. They are very aware of what I am doing, why I am here and when I will be leaving. It may interest you to know that my father still does not truly believe the machine works even after touching and seeing it. Yes, education is still taught in a classroom but the entire focus and system looks nothing like what you have now. Dont worry, you wont miss it.

((I still don't buy your story. There are inconsistancies that are to large to write off))

I understand your viewpoint and I respect it. However, I am confused by a twist in the way the language is used. Another fellow who posted earlier was a bit upset over what I was saying because he thought I was soon going to ask for money by selling something. Since I dont have anything to sell I am curious why, Idont buy your story, is the natural way to say what you did. I am aware that its off the cuff to say but wouldnt it be better to say I dont believe your story? Why is the other way so common?

Posted by James Boley on 02-08-2001 10:01 AM

I don't believe your story.

Posted by Matt Hagemeier on 02-08-2001 10:52 AM

John, Does the U.S still have adversaries or "outside" threats 2036? If so, who, what, and why?

Korea United?

How does the U.S media cover the civil war? Is it unibased or does it favor one side?

Are you creating a alternate timeline by just interacting with us?

Posted by Jack Stansbury on 02-08-2001 11:40 AM

Everyone that is reading or posting wants to what the future has in store for them and their family and friends. John only can tell us that he is from 2036. Well John give us some good stuff. Thats all we want. We need meat .

Jack

Posted by Thurstan Davies on 02-08-2001 01:13 PM

Dear John Titor,

Thank-you for your interesting forum entries.

I am currently living and working in the Middle East and I imagine that I will become one of the 3 Billion that die during WWIII.

I am not asking if I will die or how the Middle East fairs during the conflicts.

I am though interested in the patern of exchange of fire, in that you mentioned US, Russia, China and Europe.

You didn't mention Austrialia... if this continent survived unscathed or in fact any other land, would this be a better place, in your time, to gather the rescoures you require ?

Regards

Thurstan

Posted by John Titor on 02-08-2001 01:18 PM

I would characterize world politics as two boxers who have just gone multiple rounds and theyre both pretty beat up. Im sure someone out there wants to kill us but no one is very organized yet. There is a great deal of fear over rogue groups coming across un-launched missile systems, 55 gallon drums of Anthrax or portable nuclear weapons.

((Korea United?))
I guess you could say that. Taiwan, Japan and Korea were all forcefully annexed before N Day.

I dont remember a great deal about media coverage during the civil conflicts. I would probably characterize it the same way you see coverage of Waco, Ruby Ridge and Elian Gonzalez.

From my viewpoint, yes, this is an alternate timeline. From your viewpoint, no.

I have thought again about how to revel information that would make me more believable but I always come across the following problems:

1.All of you become much less interesting as sheep. I cant talk to you if youre not skeptical.

2.Anything I say could be acted on beforehand and changed anyway.

3.All the really interesting information is months or years away and Id be gone when it happens.

4.I find it morally wrong to assist someone with anything where they might gain and someone else would lose or die.

5.Theres a slim chance your worldline is just different enough my prediction wont happen.

6.I simply dont know.

Consider that you are a time traveler who goes back in time to the first week of February 1970 and you are confronted with the same problem. What do you remember right now about the second week of February 1970? Naturally, the conflict in Vietnam and the Middle East come up but as someone has already stated here, thats old news. I suppose I could predict the failure of Apollo 13 spacecraft but since time travel is ridiculous, I would be blamed for sabotage. I might even decide to tell you about an earthquake in Peru but then people that would have died by chance will now live and vice versa.

All I can think of is to make something up. So here goes. The space shuttle mission may or may not have a problem connecting the new lab to the space station.

How was that?

Posted by Craig Cuthbert on 02-08-2001 01:22 PM

"Buying a Story" means "I don't buy what you're selling". It's a reaction to a preoccupation we have with issues of "Trust" ...because we have so many interactions with "others" i.e. people who aren't a part of our immediate inner circles. There's a wariness that "another" is deceiving us in some manner, either to con us (gain our confidence for some gain - possibly financial) or work their way into our inner circles and cause some form of havoc. Therefore their story is up for judgement as to whether it is worth "banking on". EG - You may think you could have some sort or beneficial effect by telling people how things may turn out in the future? Don't bank on it.

Art Bell use to have an archive of the night that he had an open line for Time Travelers. I have to say that much of what I listened to, rang true with my own "prophetic" thoughts.

So, this enemy that was attacked in the US by Russia, was it Islamic in nature?

What it IT (Ginger)? The buzz is that it revolutionizes transportation. What change happened in the early '00s that relates to this?

I want to get into the Automated Home technologies business. Any suggestions? Please e-mail me :-)

Posted by Chris Greycheck on 02-08-2001 01:53 PM

Lightbulb

John,

Again I have to congratulate you on your perceived high level of intelligence, and I don't doubt that you may indeed be a physics professor or just some guy who gets off misleading others.

You stated:

"2.Anything I say could be acted on beforehand and changed anyway."

Not true at all...not *anything*...just a few days ago there was an attempt at Bush's life, surely that's going to be a significant historical event. It's the first attack/assasination attempt on the president of the new millenium. Hmmm, yeah, you could have warned us days ago about, and it may have been changed, and not happened...but that's very very doubtful. At the time, no one would have taken you seriously anyway...but if you had of predicted that, and it happened, then even I would likely believe you now.
Or what about telling us something like a hollywood story of someone breaking up, or getting married, good luck trying to change that...or of a company's profits...SOMETHING...

You are VERY evasive, and you don't give even a single "iota" of evidence...nothing...nadda...zero. I remember you saying that your point of this was to come on and get people to at least accept the possibility of time travel, well no kidding, great time traveller...sheesh.. look at what message board you are on!! many including myself certainly beleive that it's possible, but all you do is give fantastic stories and shrug off any attempt at evidence with your lame excuses. What all of us on here want is the truth, not science fiction.

"3.All the really interesting information is months or years away and Id be gone when it happens."

Hey, we'll be the judge of that there John. That's not the point whether the information is interesting, that's subjective, the point is that you should prove yourself. It's true that you claim to be a scientist right? Well isn't one of the aims of scientists is to prove to *others* of their hypothesis or theory. Even if you're not one, you should still make an *attempt* at trying to prove yourself.

"4.I find it morally wrong to assist someone with anything where they might gain and someone else would lose or die."

OK fine...so why don't tell us a way in which we can save lives or help people without harming others...like of car accidents...what plane trip not to take...etc?! And don't come back with the cliched, "well it wouldn't be morally right to change the future"...you are morally obligated to help someone if you can stop it!! You can't argue with that.

John, why don't you quit claiming that you're from the future and actually make any attempt to prove that you are...

This is scary almost, does this guy actually beleive in what he says? or did Art hire some science fiction just to keep these boards interesting? There's obviously some deception going on here...

Posted by Matt Hagemeier on 02-08-2001 02:03 PM

John. are you saying there isn't enough skeptism on this board? Fom what I observe, the skeptics on here out number us "sheep".

There is no way I can know if you are real time traveler, I'm asking you questions because I'm interested in your answers.

My rational, logical mind says you are nothing but a bored cyber geek with a lot of "time" (no pun intended) on your hands, however, part of me also wants to believe that time travel is (or will be) a realtiy as it has always been a facinastion of mine.

I know there is much more to the Universe that I can possibly understand, therefore, my mind always will be open to new possiblities.

Posted by Louis D'Avenio on 02-08-2001 02:25 PM

Thumbs down

John,When does your creative writing course end?????????

Posted by Jack Stansbury on 02-08-2001 02:47 PM

Mr. John the time merchant is he selling truth or lies??
The members of this BBS are people that want to believe, We aren't stupid. John give us the respect that we have given to you. Please tell the truth. However if it is true you are just a geek tell the members so. The truth will set you free !!!!!!!!!

Posted by D'Wayne Bolton on 02-08-2001 02:50 PM

As the 38? year old that you are today, do you remember yourself showing up and visiting yourself as a three year old? Are your parents still living in 2036? Have they ever mentioned your having time traveled back to see them in 2001?

Posted by Jason Plett on 02-08-2001 05:24 PM

Question

Mr. Titor, I find this fascinating. Perhaps, if you do not mind, I would enjoy a ride in your time device. I am sure you wouldn't mind me taking a spin into the future a few years. If you are ever in the Denver area let me know I would like to interview you and take a ride in your machine.

Posted by Robert A. Cook on 02-08-2001 05:42 PM

Yep, Jason hit the nail right on the head, didn't he?

I too would like to take a ride in the rumble seat of your time machine.

I would like to visit the late 'fifties and early 'sixties. I'd like to have coffee with my father and my uncle, with spray-painted gold lamps overhead, encrusted with plastic jewels.

I'd like to watch them smoke their pipes and cigarettes unmolested, and discuss the simple issues of their time.

Sadly, I believe time travel is bull***t.

I wish it were otherwise.

Posted by John Lensk on 02-08-2001 06:45 PM

Question

John is there anything you can let us know about the future? I know you are doing the whole "not gonna tell any real information due to money being made off betting on the information you tell us". But can you just name some people who will be major tv stars or movie stars, or future major politicians or major companies? Or even other major technologies besides the obvious that we arent aware of?

Posted by John Titor on 02-08-2001 06:59 PM

This post addresses what I have seen before the last three. I enjoy the conversation and I will respond.

The pattern of exchange in the war will not be a surprise. Many people will perish as a result of starvation and disease. I would also submit that you already know if youre safe or not. The trick is to not turn off your fear when youll need it the most.

Australia is sort of interesting in what is unknown. After the war, they were not very cooperative or friendly (cant blame them really). It is known they did repulse a Chinese invasion and most of their cities were hit. They have a trading relationship with the U.S. but I would characterize them as reclusive and ticked off.

When people use phrases like See what I mean, Youre not hearing what Im saying or Something smells fishy, they are indicating the primary sense they use to process information about a situation. I find it interesting that my credibility and the phrases that describe it hinge on economic terms and whether or not I have something to sell. I dont. I also dont know how to clarify my position any better so I would suggest that if what I say angers you, it might be best to just consider it fiction. Soon youll get bored and I will leave in a few months. Either way, it wont be an issue.

The enemy that was attacked by Russia in the U.S. was the forces of the government you live under right now.

((...or just some guy who gets off misleading others.))

I do not seek followers to mislead. I seek safety, animosity and good conversation.

(2). To me it would seem obvious that we both have a very different perspective on whats important right now in 2001. I would think thats what makes our interaction interesting. Would I be anymore believable if I told you I had just stopped a horrible event and you wont hear about it because it didnt happen? Again, this is the second time it has come up and I am very curious. Why would you expect a time traveler to know or care about what happens in Hollywood or some individual companies profits? You seem to think I have tomorrows paper in front of me. Is that what time travel means to you?

(3) I never said I was a scientist. If this is about economics somehow and you hope to buy my story, then what do I gain by selling it?

(5) You already know that cars are dangerous and planes crash. Im very confident you are capable of killing yourselves without my intervention. Actually, my moral obligation has nothing to do with you, its between me and God.

Deception? Exactly what standard do you use to measure the truth around you? I have seen other threads with amazing and potentially real experiences on them. Why am I more threatening?

I have no memory of meeting an older me as a three year old. The events between worldlines are isolated and nothing I do here will affect my worldline. Yes, my parents are alive in 2036 but they have no experience with a time traveling me in their 2001 either.

Posted by Ernie Vega on 02-08-2001 09:39 PM

Cool

Hi John:

I've read all the postings here and I sense that what we have here is a failure to communicate. It's been my experience that the majority of posters on this board are genuinely open minded, and ready to believe. Actually I'm intrigued by the escalating level of frustration being experienced here, and wonder where it's going.

In my opinion you have sparked a good discussion here. If you are from the future, then we all have something to learn from you. If you are not, then it's a good game of cat and mouse, and since audience participation is not mandatory, I really have no reason to be upset with you. For me the challenge here is two-fold.

1. To try and somehow get you to validate yourself without violating your ethics.

2. To try to get you to trip yourself up, and prove yourself a hoax.

Either way in the end we all get what we wanted.

Rather than degenerating into a "let's get John mob" I propose we try to devise creative lines of questioning to get to the bottom of the "John Titor" story.

I don't believe animosity is a requirement for a satisfying excercise in thinking. We do need to level the playing field so it would be helpful if you would agree to a few "rules of sportsmanship" (pardon the P.I. sexist reference).

You have more than once noted your disdain for our colloquialisms and cultural inclinations. This is inherently unfair, and you should give it some thought. You being the "TT", have an unfair advantage here. We do live in an economy based society and it's natural for us to use terms like, "Im sold". You used the term "off the cuff" in your comments about "buying in", does this mean in the future "cuffs" have some cultural significance? or is it simply a familiar concept? ....food for thought.

I of course only speak for myself, so here are my questions.

1. Is John Titor your real name? (just kidding)
2. What is the name of your locality/State/Country?
3. Are you a free man?
4. Have civil liberties become more significant?
5. Do you live in a racist society?
6. What is your form of government?
7. Would you be considered a member of the Patriot movement today?
8. In your time, have people developed their spirituality?
9. Do you know what happens when you die in your time?
10. If any what is the predominant religion?
11. Did Jesus come back?
12. Did we send manned missions to Mars?
13. What did we find on Mars?
14. Did we colonize the Moon?
15. Are we currently being bombarded by mind control devices?
16. Is Psionics a part of your every day life?
17. Is Europe made up of feudal states?
18. Did the N.W.O turn out to be real? or just vapor?
19. Do you have teleportation for the average citizen?
20. Was AIDS created by the government?
21. Are there gays in the military?
22. Are there gay people in your time?
23. What is your race?
24. Is there a Movie industry?
25. Is VR legal?
26. What is the average lifespan?
27. Why are you still using paper money?
28. As far as you know who is the most significant figure of the 21st century.
29. Do you use Tesla technology?
30. Given the differentials values you quoted, why can't your technology compensate by offsetting the target coordinates so the error puts you in the correct "world time"?
31. Do you have the death penalty?
32. What is the most common crime commited?
33. Is race mixing allowed?
34. Is cloning common practice?
35. What is the racial make up of the continental U.S.
36. Is there segregation?
37. What is your education system like?
38. What is the woman's role in your time?
39. Are there equal rights?
40. What sort of birth control do you practice?
41. Are there same sex marriages?
42. What happened to South America?
43. Are there recreational drugs?
44. Do you remember the Beatles?
45. What is the name of the Pope? (name changes)

If you answer these questions you will not violate any of your rules except for question #1, so I'll retract that one.

That's my 2 cents
PS: If you need a real web site I can give you one, all to yourself, for as long as you stay in our time line. E-mail me if you want it.

Posted by Charles Moltrup on 02-08-2001 11:30 PM

How close does asteroid 2000SG344 come to earth in the year 2030 I will be 78 years old by then and want to find a big rock to hide under. PS my time machine works all the time i call it the human mind it takes me to any time line I want and it runs on Imagination. see ya around

Posted by Thurstan Davies on 02-09-2001 01:44 AM

Dear John Titor,

Thnak-you for your words :

"I would also submit that you already know if youre safe or not. The trick is to not turn off your fear when youll need it the most."

After some pondering over your kind reply, I did smile at your words and I did need to hear them, how ever many times I do hear them from one source or another...

May I ask one question, when you saw my name "Thurstan" did you recognise it, I won't ask why or how, or where, just if.

Once again Thank-you, I hope your project suceeds before '38.

Best Regards

Thurstan

Posted by D'Wayne Bolton on 02-09-2001 06:32 AM

Many of the above questions are answered in preceeding posts.
If John is from the future, let's keep his interest and not bore him with the same questions over and over and over and over again.
However, some of the questions are new and I too would like to hear the answers.

Posted by Mel Reckling on 02-09-2001 10:45 AM

John,

Unless you've been here for the last 10 years or so, how would know how we have seen the media coverage of Waco(94?),
Ruby Ridge(93?), Elian?

Posted by Chris Greycheck on 02-09-2001 11:11 AM

John,

I must say that I am impressed as to how calm you remain, then again, that only helps to make you even more believable.
When I was referring to plane crashes, I meant you should be able to tell us of near-future air disasters and their flight numbers, so we can warn anyone that we may know, thus saving their lives. What is so unreasonable about that?
Anyway, I am not totally clear on your point, of being here as your main one was already shown to be redundant (getting us to at least accept the possibility of TT), so what it's going to be now?

Posted by Craig Cuthbert on 02-09-2001 12:33 PM

I would say if this is all legit - and I'm leaning that way as I would rather it be, and I have nothing at stake - that the whole issue is very much about divergence. Onb certain levels divergences matter very little. For instance, did it really matter whether you got gas, last Thurs., at an AMPM (amp 'em) or a Chevromn Quik Mart? If a timeline was altered and on a new line you found yourself gassing up at a Texaco Food Mart AFTER you went to the Library, as opposed the AM/PM (amp 'em) before you went to the school board meeting - would it matter? Suppose you went back in time and suggested to your bonehead cousin that he should get a job at the new service center down the street. And he met some girl there, they got married and now you get to visit them once every year in LAs Vegas? Suppose you suggested he try telemarketing at 1 800 RIGHT-IN-THE MIDDLE-OF-DINNER and he lasted 3.5 weeks and then found a job in Vegas dealing cards and then met some girl there. I guess my point is that different divergences have different "loads" of importance.

Enough ... though true freedom means looking at these consequences on a more continual basis than one would have if one were used to a more routinized existence. I find this whole topic of divergence to be the more intriguing topic (though I would like to know what Chinese pop culture will look like.

Posted by John Titor on 02-09-2001 02:02 PM

For all of you interested in coming back with me to 2036, perhaps we should discuss the trip. Please be aware, the displacement unit moves through time, not space. First, we will be driving the current vehicle (Chevy truck) with the displacement unit in it to Tampa Florida. From there, we will go back to my arrival date on this worldline. Then we will have to drive to Minnesota, sell the current vehicle and get another one that would have been around in 1975. We will then move the displacement unit (500 lbs or so) into the new vehicle and go back to 1975. Once in 1975, well drive back to Tampa and make the final hop to 2036. If youd like to stay in 1975, youre welcome to do that. It can also get quite hot and stuffy during the trip and youll be subjected to a 1.5 to 2 G force the entire time. Youll also need some sort of a re-breather system or oxygen supply.

I have found that many misunderstandings and arguments are based on the differences in understanding over a single word. Two different cultures can have a drastic impact on the meaning of words like proof, trust and credibility. My frustration is in understanding the use of the words. I am trying to follow the logic of all of the comments.

After reading the questions, I want to paint a picture that may help with the general theme of our collective experience in 2036. The war had very profound affects on people and how they relate to each other. As individuals, almost everyone in 2036 is very familiar with death. We all have stories of loved ones that have died from disease, war or acts of inhumanity. Most of us have even taken part in dishing the same thing out to the other side. As a result, we have become far more compassionate to the ones we love but mush less forgiving to those who dont pull their weight. We are more accepting of others differences in our community because we depend on them to survive. We are also more conservative with our resources and closer to God because for a period, life on Earth was Hell.

The other major difference is in the concept of good and evil. With multiple worlds come multiple decisions and outcomes. For every good act, there is an equal and possible bad act on another worldline. Taken to the extreme, this must mean that in Gods eyes, there is no total good and total bad in the superverse. It balances itself out to infinity. I believe we are judged on the decisions we make as individuals and the good/evil I see on my worldline is an illusion that has no worth to God. My reaction to it is whats important to God. Although this may seem rather heartless, it does allow me to see past the evil that people do and acknowledge the core of potential goodness inside them.

2. I am currently based in Tamp Florida in Hillsborough County.

3. Yes I am free but I have obligations as a citizen. Everyone is required to have basic military training and provide a period of time for community service. It is very much like a type of mandatory National Guard service + Peace Corps.

4. Yes civil liberties are more important. You will feel the same after having your house searched a couple of times.

5. We do not live in a racist society but definitely a prejudice one. Everyone carries their own water.

6. Our government looks very much like yours. It is a representative republic.

7. My definition of a patriot is anyone who defends the Constitution against all enemies, foreign and domestic.

8. Religion has become far less centralized. Extremes tend to bring you closer to God so I would characterize religion and spirituality as a much more of a personal institution.

9. I do not know what happens when we die. However, I dont think it will be easy. There may be some very difficult decisions we have to make when we die that we are totally unprepared for.

10. Its difficult to define the most predominant religion. Christianity has fragmented into many groups and people with different beliefs speak mush more openly with others who have different outlooks and opinions. I would imagine there are large groups of Hindus, Buddhists and Muslims but I have not come across them personally.

11. No, Jesus did not come back. At least not that Im aware of. If or when Jesus returns, do you think hell be a lamb or a lion?

12. No mission to Mars but we are working on it. There is a group working on the idea of gravity displacement to get into space but the calculations and error rate are very large obstacles to overcome.

13. We dont know whats on Mars yet.

14. Were not on the moon yet either. A great deal of technical effort is going into cleaning the planet up.

15. Im not aware of any mind control devices being used on you now. However, there are a great many non lethal weapon systems in development that turn out to be quite lethal. Sometimes I watch your television programs that show SWAT teams using new non-lethal weapons. They usually start out with, In the future, the army and police will fight its enemies with new weapons systems When they use the word enemy, theyre talking about YOU! You dont really think the Marines are going to jump out of helicopters overseas with sticky goop, pepper spray and seizure lights, do you?

16. Im not familiar with the term Psionics. Ill look it up and see if we just have another word for it.

17. Yes, Europe is a mess.

18. Yes, I think the New World Order idea tried to establish itself. I would consider them the combination of the old U.S. federal system, Europe, Canada and Australia.

19. When you say teleportation, I assume you mean public transportation. Yes, we have a basic high-speed system.

20. I dont know if the government created AIDS. I tend to think yes but controlling it escaped them as it mutated. You cant have conspiracy to limit the population with a disease without the cure.

21. Yes, homosexuals are in the army. You tend to look past the individual differences of people when thier job is to protect your life.

22. Yes, there are gay people in 2036.

23. I am a white male.

24. Yes, there is an entertainment industry. Again, it is very decentralized. The technology to express yourself with video is so readily available that many people do it all by themselves or in small groups. Much of the distribution is over the web. I would compare it theater here.

25. I dont know what you mean by VR?

26. The average lifespan is about 60 but I expect that will imporve as we get things cleaned up.

27. Yes, paper money is still widely used.

28. The 21st century has awhile to go but the most significant person in my opinion is the farmer-general who led us to victory.

29. Even for you Tesla technology can be found in appliances, motors and generators. I would have to say we have come a long way on Teslas foundation but we dont have electricity rays that cause earthquakes.

30. Getting back to my exact worldline of origin is impossible but it depends on how you define the correct worldline. I can get close enough so neither I nor anyone there would know the difference. It relates to the classic example of cutting a distance in half to reach it. You can always get closer but never there. It also has a lot do with neighboring universes on Penrose diagrams but that requires more math.

31. Yes, we have the death penalty. We also have public punishment.

32. The most common crime is theft.

33. I dont understand what you mean by race mixing.

34. Cloning is not common. However, altering the sperm and egg cell are common. It is very difficult to have children in 2036 for environmental reasons.

35. Its hard to say what the exact racial make up of the U.S. is. I would say its probably the same minus 130 million people or so.

36. No, there is no segregation.

37. The education system is very similar to yours but the organization and implementation is controlled on a community and county level. Various communities also specialize in certain disciplines.

38, 39. My comments on equal rights and womens roles could be quite lengthy and controversial. I wish to discuss that separately. However, women do fight in the military just as the men do but their role on the community level is very conservative.

40. Having children is such a serious issue in 2036 that birth control is almost unheard of. It is very difficult and precious to have and raise children. Again, this is an issue I will be happy to go into later.

41. Yes, there are same sex marriages but its not very common. Again, people have lived through so much hardship that if what someone else is doing does not affect them or harm the community, its not a big issue.

42. South America went relatively unharmed. However, there is still a great deal of internal conflict with conventional arms.

43. Yes, people use drugs that alter consciousness but they are not very common.

44. Yes, I know who the Beatles are. Old music and other entertainment is available on the web.

45. There is another Pope but I do not know his name.

I do remember the name Thurstan. Isnt that a character on a television program about people stranded on a desert island?

I do believe that youre UNIX will also have a problem in 2038. I dont think thats a secret but maybe someone should put a 5100 aside for thirty years or so.

John

Posted by Brett Fredrico on 02-09-2001 07:04 PM

Lightbulb

One Question for the time traveler....

You mention a full scale nuclear weapons deployment as a result of WWIII. You also mention that electronics, computers, and even the Internet still functioning some time after that. Can you explain how these devices (and more importantly the facilities that made them) withstood the EMP airbursts associated with any full scale nuclear war? Every electronic device would be inorperable after such an event and it would take decades (if even possible) to rebuild the infrastructure to allow for the building of an electric razor, let alone an Internet.

Posted by Ernie Vega on 02-09-2001 07:16 PM

Thumbs up

John,
First, thanks for the insightful answers. I have to admit that the overall picture you paint, sounds very real, and sobering. As you accurately detected my questions were really an excercize in profiling. You are either from the future as you say, or you are the next Robert Heinlein.

As for me, in as much as I have been given to understand by your answers you don't have the mentality of a hoaxer. Actually you sound like a 30 something, militia member who has experienced much hardship, and your calm yet aggressive demeanor indicates you are accustomed to making difficult decisions. Your "skirting" of the "equality" issue and your use of the word "prejudiced" is indicative of the kind of hard, post war climate you claim to be from, and the measures that would be required for survival. I assume your comment "everyone carries their own water" was both literal and figurative? and is the equivalent of "our" "you have to carry your own weight"?

As a programmer, the UNIX issue you refer to is a bit of a problem. I write code in APL, PLI, Lisp, C, C++, VB, Fortran , Cobol, smalltalk, Java, Python, and a slew of less known languages. The 2038 "bug" is about as dangerous as the Y2K bug. I can "with a little tweaking" do anything with a computer that can be done with a computer. I assume there are programmers in 2036, that being the case, a "good programmer" can fix your Y2K38 date inconsistency. As for the undocumented IBM design modification in the 5100, I know nothing so I can't comment there.

The new .net platform from microsoft has the capability to integrate all the languages you mentioned + all the ones I mentioned. Would it not be easier to write in the original language instead of having a machine translation?

Can you tell me how your UNIX differs from ours?

As for proof, I don't think any is forthcoming that would be "conclusive".

At this point I have no concrete reason to disbelieve anything you say save for standard skepticism.

I'd like to discuss some current technology with you in private if you have the time. If you can E-mail me I'd appreciate it.

Good luck John, you're an interesting person, thanks for the conversation.

PS. Thurston Howell is the name of a character on "Gilligand's Island". for a definition of psionics you can check [ Register or Signin to view external links. ] . If you guys can run windows, I have some software for you that would come in real handy in your time. (really!)

Posted by John Titor on 02-10-2001 09:49 AM

Waco, Ruby Ridge and Elian exist in your news archives. Telling you about impending place crashes or other disasters (provided I could give you exact dates and times) may save lives at one point but cause cascading changes that take others at a later point.

I enjoy the posts because its very hard to remain safe and have a conversation. I have often seen the classic question, why dont time travelers revel themselves? Thats easy, if you believe us, youll drug us into oblivion and put us in a small dark cell while men in white lab coats take a Phillips head screw driver to the magnetic lock on the singularity drive housing.

I will examine the web site you mentioned. I believe the 5100 is unique in its ability to run assembler language on the 360-machine platform and still be portable. Im not sure if that fact was ever made public so its the best proof I have. I would like to examine the software you mentioned; perhaps I can further justify my side-trip.

Yes, EMP took out a great number of electronic devices. Thats one of the reasons why we dont have reliable technology laying around. However, in the opening hours of N Day, the Russians did not launch any high altitude detonations. They knew we would most likely clean up after them so they wanted everyone outside the cities to be able to communicate. Most of the warheads that hit the cities came in threes and exploded close to the ground. The heavy EMP damage was isolated to those areas.

Actually, you will probably be quite impressed with our internet. Its based on a series of independent, self-powered nodes that are mobile and can be put up anywhere. It looks a great deal like your current cell phone system.

Posted by Walt Moss on 02-11-2001 10:35 AM

1.What is your opinion of Revelations in the New Testiment,Do you feel it related to the coming War?

2 Are you familiar with the Fatima Prophesies and were these achieved?

3. You mentioned earlier (I don't know if it were hypothetical) that you were sent to change something here in 2000 or 2001, were you succesful? and if you were it has already happened so could you go into detail as to what you did.

4. Was there an Antichrist, and was he part of the EU.

Thanks for responce

Posted by Brett Fredrico on 02-11-2001 02:53 PM

Question

I don't know if you have answered this yet, but how did you learn about Art Bell? Is AM still mostly talk radio in your time? Lastly, what more do you know about UFOs and those pesky greys?

Posted by Angel Lynnn on 02-12-2001 12:42 AM

Question

John,
I have been reading the posts about you and your travels tonight and am facinated.
Thank you so much for posting here and answering our questions.
I wish you peace and happiness.
I would really like to know if hand made items are popular or liked in the year 2036. Are people still knitting and crocheting with their hands?
I am an avid crocheter and I'm very curious about this. I make hats, scarfs, purses, rugs, dish cloths, towels, etc...
Maybe you need a break from the IMPORTANT questions and you could indulge me............
Thank you, John for being you.
Angel Lynnn

Posted by Kennith Viccars on 02-12-2001 09:20 AM

Hello,

Just read through this thread and found it very interesting.

I just had a couple questions...

I'm from Calgary, Canada. What part will Canada have in the War? Specifically western Canada, should I get out and move to Fiji ?

Do you think it's very smart to be talking to people online?
I mean anyone could get your ip, with a few connections find your address and locate you. I know for a fact that a few "men in black" read this board. If they thought for a second that you were for real, they would be on your ass so fast, and your "Time Machine" would be in the hands of the US military my friend.

I'm about 99.9% skeptical, but I do like the odd sci-fi story, and enjoy your writing. I don't pity you for trying to convince the gullible hordes that flock this board. Everybody needs to feel "wanted", and we all like to feel "special". If this is your way of getting attention, I have no problem with it, no ones getting hurt.

Thx John.

Posted by Don Hackman on 02-12-2001 09:23 AM

Wink

I have put all my accounts in order and bought rebreathers etc. as instructed and have sent you all our credit cards.
Are you sure the 1/2 life of the radioactive fallout from WWIII is now / then safe in 2038 ? Should I bring tin foil?

Posted by Blonnie Dowden on 02-12-2001 09:27 AM

Question

please forgive me if you have already responded to a similar question - but i am a very curious person & can not wait to ask this..just incase i forget.. my question:

you say that you can not tell us when something of very little historical importance occurs.. because we may alter/change something & look to you as a phsycic of some sort. perhaps, you could mention something that will happen very soon after you've just left. no one will be able to contact you so what could they possibly change and/or ask you about? as someone has suggested: over time periods certain types of music run to the forfront of our society. in the early 90's it was grunge.. now it seems to be the bubbly pop teen sensations, i.e. backstreet boys & britney spears.. you couldn't even answer the simple question of what will be the next 'movement' in music? just something so simple as that.. couldn't possibly have some profound affect on the future? & especially for just the people on this board..i have my doubts that they'd run out & "do something" about the fact that acid jazz (for instance) is the next big musical hit.. know what i mean?

more questions: dunno if you've been asked this, but what are the areas least affected by the ww3 bombings ..you will probably not be able to answer that.. just going to see if you will anyway. another thing i wanted to mention was that even though you think because of one small thing you say may affect the future greatly, i assure you that 90% of the people.. will not take it seriously. so if you said: "the eastern shore will be most affected."..i doubt that in 2012 everyone will swarm to the west. of the large population our world has.. it is very small in comparison to the population of -this-board-.. & our country is full of skeptics (which i'm sure you've realized).. so even if 100 people said "the eastern shore will not be affected.. a traveler from the future -said so-!!!".. maybe 1 or 2 people would actually believe them. i think the affect you think you'd have..is not as large as it really would be.

another: have you visited your -past- family? what city were you born in/grew up in? could you even say that so-and-so.. *an unknown person in today's history*.."will be a big star"..etc..?

-blonnie-
just curious

Posted by Rick Donaldson on 02-12-2001 09:45 AM

I've read this entire forum through twice now.

What I find fasinating more than John's Time Traveling, are the people who seem to be attacking him. Now, I "believe" that Time Travel is possible - and I think there is plenty of physics evidence for this. So - perhaps the word "belief " is really not the correct word.

I have a couple of questions for John as well, so if you can answer these John, I would appreciate your answers.

1) Once a microsingularity is produced and placed in statis in a magnetic field, what is the approximate strength of that magnetic field.

2) How is the magnetic field produced (I mean - what power source holds the field in place)?

3) What would happen to the microsignularity if that source FAILED? For instance would the microsingularity begin to grow? Or would it cease to exist?

In relation to my first comments about folks attacking John's veracity - I have to say that John's stories/statements DO hold water. The folks that chose not to believe him are welcome to do so, but, you do not have to "save anyone" from themselves or John. I believe most of us are intelligent enough to determine for ourselves if there is any kind of fraud. Even if there IS fraud, I personally am impressed with the background. It is well thought-out and consistent so far.

John has stated several times that what he says will not affect us, or him, and what we say will not affect him whatsoever. I have to take that to mean that even if he DOES tell you something here, it will NOT affect HIS timeline, since there is some deviation from his actual timeline here. In other words, John is NOT the same John he is visiting now, as his 3 year old self. His mom and dad are NOT his REAL mom and dad in his time line. We are NOT the same PEOPLE IN HIS TIME LINE.

Therefore, John (and none of you could do this either) can NOT tell us anything about our current timeline with any great accuracy that can be verified.

Think about it.

Rick Donaldson
Colorado Springs

Posted by Blonnie Dowden on 02-12-2001 09:53 AM

another thing i do not understand.

you said in a previous post:

"I am no more able to affect your worldline than you are. Yes, I could make the changes you suggested but you must remember that there are an infinite number of worldlines out there where I didnt and I dont. In fact, theres even a worldline out there where youre the time traveler and Im the one writing the question.

I think the war would be good for you and your society. I dont want to stop it.

Nothing I do here will affect any other worldline. My original worldline will always be the same and yes I can make changes here that would make this worldline different from mine but so can you."

from this i suppose that you mean, that yes, you could & possibly have affected our 'worldline'.. & our worldline is different from -your- worldline.. if this is true then why do you keep telling us about the ww3..etc.. how do you know that will even -happen- in our worldline? it may have already been nipped in the bud for all you know..because ours is a different -worldline- from yours!

another thing i wanted to respond to:

"(2). To me it would seem obvious that we both have a very different perspective on whats important right now in 2001. I would think thats what makes our interaction interesting. Would I be anymore believable if I told you I had just stopped a horrible event and you wont hear about it because it didnt happen? Again, this is the second time it has come up and I am very curious. Why would you expect a time traveler to know or care about what happens in Hollywood or some individual companies profits? You seem to think I have tomorrows paper in front of me. Is that what time travel means to you? "

i understand what you're saying .. why would you care what happens in hollywood..etc.. or individual companies profits.. what you're basically saying is you just don't remember (or maybe you do..but you won't tell us?).. why would you care? if you asked anyone today who, for instance: marilyn monroe is.. we would all know.. or who bill gates was & what he did for computers - we would all know. you're insinuating that you don't know &/or don't care about any of these things in the future. perhaps so..but how could you POSSIBLY not know who the next big inventor is.. or what the invention is. you claim that if you told us.. we could alter it & keep it from happening. how many people do you think will be SO concerned that a -mega-super-razor- that keeps all facial hair gone for 20 days (for example).. that they want to go & stop the inventor from inventing it? & also you said, you'd be gone by the time the 'good stuff' happens.. ok.. isn't that -further- better for your point..in that you say it's better to have us be skeptics rather than sheep? well if you told us "in 2 years, there will be an earthquake in israel".. & you were gone by then..all we could do is say, "wow, that guy on the board in 2001 said this would happen! he was real!".. we couldn't -do- anything.. we couldn't STOP the eartquake & i doubt anyone would go there & tell everyone to evacuate (and even if they did, no one would!).. it would just prove that you were -true- & existed. i can't fathom why you can not speak of something such as that..

Posted by Rick Donaldson on 02-12-2001 11:14 AM

John - Another question suddenly came to mind. I asked before about the microsingularities. Are they used to create the "rotating tipler cylinder" somehow through the axis of your time machine? All matter within a certain distance is then pushed (somehow) along a time-dilation type trip in time, forward or backward.

Is this about right? I'm betting that (assuming this is real) the microsingularities are used to create the infinite length aspect of the tipler cylinder which appears to be required for this time function change to occur. The aspect of rotating microsingularities (MS from now on) means that some sort of gravational field between the MS is also rotating, so as to create this illusion of a gravitational cylinder AROUND WHICH TIME IS DISTORTED GREATLY!!

Hmmmm... I'm about to start believing this guy, John the Time Traveler is real.

John, one last question, what sort of actual educational background (in your time) do you have? That is.. university, college, high school, etc? Thanks

Rick Donaldson
Colorado Springs

Posted by Benedict Gumby on 02-12-2001 12:06 PM

Question

I just have this to ask you.
Do you recognize the name Benedict?
I want to know because I fully intend to be a prominent figure within the next 20 years.

Posted by Kane Greene on 02-12-2001 12:14 PM

Smile

I have read these threads and that web site you directed us all too on the first page. When first approaching this thread, I was expecting something to be comical, just some guy who would admit a page later that it was a joke. He would do that because he would not know how to answer questions or slip up, something in which you haven't done! I am extremely surprised! With each reply you have, the more and more I think you could be possibly telling the truth.

Some things in John's defense to think of before being so harsh. Say you were back in 1900, and you mentioned something about us going to the moon. What do you think the response would have been? You probably would have been thought crazy, or a drunk! That is kinda in relation to what is going on now, we are not familiar or have no knowledge of Time Travel actually happening before this.

Another thing about people saying how John doesn't know any World Events that are about to happen in the next few months. But you have to remember, that the last time John was in our time, assuming he hasn't traveled back was when he was 3 years old! How many of you can honestly say you remember at-the-time important issues that happened when you were 3! I know I can't!

John, now, I would like to ask you a few things I am curious about! This is something I have found to be very interesting and could possibly believe you!

(1)Have you ever went on any other time traveling missions? If so, what were they?

(2)I believe you said you had pictures of your time machine, could you post a link to uploaded images?

(3)If you have any pictures of the IBM computer you were susposed to get, could you post a link to them also?

(4)I looked up the name 'Titor' in the state of Flordia on 555-1212.com and couldn't find ANY Titors, is your family not listed in the phone book?

(5)Can I contact you through any other means of online communications? Like AOL Instant Messagner? ICQ? MSN? Something so I can have a conversation with you! But if you don't have those, could you possibly consider downloading one of them, [ Register or Signin to view external links. ] , [ Register or Signin to view external links. ] . And then emailing me your user name abcs_123s @ hotmail.com , thanks!

(6)What is the specific Date that the Nuclear war starts? If you can't remember the exact date, could you put the month at least? An estimate!

(7)What is the speed of the average computer in the future? I am assuming it is in ghZ, if it is higher, could you post the name of that hZ measurement and its relation to the ghZ?

(8)Can you do your own Time Traveling ventures whenever you want? If so, how much does it cost? Or can you make 'pit stops' along the way back to 2036?

(9)Have you ever went past your future, like to 2050 or somewhere around there? If so, what is the world like then?

Also, someone said why does he think that there will be a WW3 in our world since it isn't the same as his. Well, John said that there is a 2.5% difference from our world and his, that isn't that much of a difference, so a WW3 is very likely to happen if what he says is true and there is only that much of a difference!

Posted by Blonnie Dowden on 02-12-2001 12:31 PM

Kane Greene wrote:

"Another thing about people saying how John doesn't know any World Events that are about to happen in the next few months. But you have to remember, that the last time John was in our time, assuming he hasn't traveled back was when he was 3 years old! How many of you can honestly say you remember at-the-time important issues that happened when you were 3! I know I can't!"

3 years old.. yes. i was 3 years old when reagan was president & i probably had no idea he even existed at the time..yet, i know now that he existed. john is not a three year old now - he's 38 he says & unless the schools of the future teach no history then why wouldn't he know these things? & as they are big events in history i can understand (possibly) why he wouldn't want to post them... but it has nothing to do with his age... tell me there weren't things that happened or people that existed when you were three.. that you didn't know of then but know of now? the beatles for instance were alive & famous before i was ever born, yet i know they existed in the 60's/70's. i was born in 81 & challenger blew up soon thereafter (in 83 i think it was???) i never saw it on television happening.. but i know it happened.
-
what about marilyn monroe? i wasn't even born yet when she was alive - but i know she existed? & telling us something such as her existance would not greatly affect the outcome of our entire world.. so why not tell us? i can possibly understand how telling us that there will be a horrible bombing in canada..would affect the future .. someone on here may be from canada & keep their family away from the site of the bombing .. thus, changing future.. but telling us something of little importance will NOT change the future! it will only prove he is who/what he says he is.

-blonnie-

Posted by Kane Greene on 02-12-2001 12:45 PM

Red face

By Blonnie:
"3 years old.. yes. i was 3 years old when reagan was president & i probably had no idea he even existed at the time..yet, i know now that he existed. john is not a three year old now - he's 38 he says & unless the schools of the future teach no history then why wouldn't he know these things? & as they are big events in history i can understand (possibly) why he wouldn't want to post them... but it has nothing to do with his age... tell me there weren't things that happened or people that existed when you were three.. that you didn't know of then but know of now? the beatles for instance were alive & famous before i was ever born, yet i know they existed in the 60's/70's. i was born in 81 & challenger blew up soon thereafter (in 83 i think it was???) i never saw it on television happening.. but i know it happened.
-
what about marilyn monroe? i wasn't even born yet when she was alive - but i know she existed? & telling us something such as her existance would not greatly affect the outcome of our entire world.. so why not tell us? i can possibly understand how telling us that there will be a horrible bombing in canada..would affect the future .. someone on here may be from canada & keep their family away from the site of the bombing .. thus, changing future.. but telling us something of little importance will NOT change the future! it will only prove he is who/what he says he is. "

I was alive when Desert Storm took place, do I know the month it happened? No.. I wouldn't expect John to either. Plus, History books from that time would probably contain things about the war from 2005, possibly things leading up to the war. Not inventions like 'Ginger' and pop artists!

History books might mention some things, but they just give a year most of the time if it is not of grave importance, they more than less are going to just give the year and say what it did.

Blah! Why can't vBulletin have the quote feature like the better, UBB? Blah!

Posted by Rick Donaldson on 02-12-2001 01:15 PM

I was born in 1957. I DO remember the 1962 crisis, at least in terms of the adults being scared. I would have been 5 years old. I distinctly remember John Glenn going up and splashing down, and I remember hearing about Alan Sheppard (first man in space for you younguns hehe).

I indeed remember watching John Glenn though. I remember Walter Cronkites voice on television. I can tell you what my house looked like back then, the size of the TV and that it was black and white. I remember playing with magnets back then, and being absolutely fascinated with the magic of magnetic fields even then (which eventually drove me into the sciences, chemistry, physics and finally electronics engineering).

I remember a TV show called "Time Tunnel" in the late 60's. Anyone else?

Anyway, the basic point is, I do have very vivid memories of things from when I was a child, of no more than 3-4. I have very, very clear memories of things when I was 3 and even my mom when she was alive was amazed at the things I could recall from such a young age. Well... I don't remember much about politics though. I know that Eisenhower was the Prez when I was born, but... I don't remember ANYTHING about him, but I DO remember all KINDS of things about Kennedy.

So... what I am getting at, John would not necessarily (nor would anyone else) remember things of politics in their baby years. Some of us do, many of us do not.

I can tell you something very important to me though... if *I* stepped into a time machine to go back to... say 1961 or 1962 I ABSOULTELY would have a complete knowledge of the era that I was returning to, in my mind. I'd have studied it very carefully, and I would ensure I had clothing of that era (up to and including the geeky classes I used to wear as a kid) to "fit in". 1962 was a year of the almost end of the human race as we know it now, and I CERTAINLY would not want to step into a time where I could have been noticed as being out of place and out of time. Curiousity about me might cause my arrest or anything else in those days.

As a 43 year old grandpa, I know a LOT more now, than I did then. I KNOW that if I had the chance to go see it with what I know now, I would take that chance. I also know that I probably would NOT pass on intelligence from the future as a matter of course. I would not communicate with anyone who might be able to discern my intent, or even anything about the future from me.

Even if I were 2.6% off track from my time line. Even if I were 45% off track, I would not give anyone the chance to gloam on to anything I said about the future.

Rick Donaldson
Colorado Springs

Posted by Nikki Colwill on 02-12-2001 01:31 PM

Please tell us about the enviornment, the animal kingdom, are there any left...what kind? If there were nukes, how do any survive? What are the physical concequences on us?

Have you heard of ascension or "The Rapture"? If so please tell what you know.

Do you trust anyone in this time frame? If so, do you share more info with them?

Have you heard of the Mayan Calander? Do you believe it to be a true or factual event timeline?

I am told that fear keeps us further from the truth and God, that being said, you had stated earlier that fear is what would keep us alive, at least I think you said something like that, anyway I find that a contradiction.

I would like to speak/e-mail with you. Is that possible or something you would be willing to do? Would you consider that?

Thanks, Nikki
PS--Is Art Bell remembered? Who are the most remembered people from this time?

[Edited by Nikki Colwill on 02-12-2001 at 01:37 PM]
Posted by Kane Greene on 02-12-2001 03:49 PM

Lightbulb

John, I have a few more questions. These ones are more about the 'War', and the state of your world.

(1) Who is the Major Super Power?

(2) Are the two political parties still Republicans and Democrats?

(3) How many States are there?

(4) Which states get the worst?

(5) Were only cities along the Eastern Sea port hit in the Nuclear War, or all over the country?

(6) Do companys like Microsoft, Yahoo!, and other internet software companys still exist?

(7) Does money look alot different than it does now? If you have a picture, could you please upload it and post the link!

(8) So then when you time travel you can never actually go back to the EXACT same place you left from?

(9) Was alot of the United States' 18-24 age group slaughtered in the war because of Draft?

(10)Do you ever get visitors from later time periods to 2036?

(11) Are there any other companys, besides the one you work for that have TTs and send them out regularly?

(12) Does the government know there is TT going on?

(13) Why were YOU selected to be a TT? What gave you special qualifications?

(14) How many TTs are there on the team that you are on? How do new recruits get selected?

(15) What all countrys are on our side in the war? What all countrys are on the oposite side?

(16) Which country gets the worst in the war?

Those are just a few more I came up with , I will let you know if I think of more!

Posted by Javier Cortez on 02-12-2001 07:28 PM

John Titor is a fraud. Check out this forum he's been posting on for months. And see how he suddenly goes quiet because he is exposed.

[ Register or Signin to view external links. ]

And also see the discrepancys in his story. And how he attempts to lure people into believing in him. [ Register or Signin to view external links. ]

We found you TT_0, and now the calvary will soon arrive to expose you here too.

-Javier C.

A.K.A. TimeTravelActivist

Posted by Kennith Viccars on 02-12-2001 07:50 PM

You people are seriously starting to scare me.

Some shmuck claims to be from the year 2036, posts a few intelligent posts on a online forum, and has a herd of sheep hanging off his every word.

Get some direction in you lives.

Posted by Craig Cuthbert on 02-12-2001 08:07 PM

:-(

Well it was fun while it lasted. Still haven't read the archive of posts of the mentioned board, though, sheep that I am, I'll have to take your word for it. (until I get time to read up). What were the points that stuck out, Javier?

(I do believe in ghosts, I do believe in ghosts, I do, I do .... and on)

Posted by Sally Stanton on 02-12-2001 08:16 PM

Talking

Watch me pull a rabbit out of Ong's Hat!!

Anway, 'scuze me. Gotta run. My kitty's looking for that Door into Sumer (sic).

Posted by John Titor on 02-12-2001 08:54 PM

Thank you Vega for the information. I will visit the site and I expect I will have some questions.

Yes, there are a great many people who think that Revelations has come to pass. However, the new fear is that Christ has returned, hes not telling us and hes very angry. I am not familiar with the Fatima Prophesies but I am aware of the term. I was not sent here to change anything. Since it would not affect my home anyway, it would be rather pointless. I am here because of my family and the interaction I had with them in 1975. I understand the question about the Antichrist but I must admit I hadnt given it much thought. My initial reaction is to consider how the Antichrist would affect my life if I could identify him/her. If your life became a sort of Hell anyway, would it matter if the Antichrist was real?

I became aware of this bulletin board through my various archiving work through the web. We do enjoy talk programs but they are distributed over the web. I dont have additional information about UFOs and I find the subject quite interesting myself. I have often wondered if they arent time travelers with very sophisticated machines. Based on what I know about the nature of time I find this difficult to believe but nothing is impossible.

Yes, handmade items and the skills to make them are quite prevalent and people take a great deal of pride in their work. People with the skills to make clothing, work with leather and wood or cultivate a garden have become quite valuable. Please do not think your questions are unimportant. I enjoy the conversation.

Fiji? Ive noticed that when most Americans think about Canada in this time, they think about pine trees, chooks and back-bacon. It may interest you to know that most Canadians in 2036 are some of the most efficient, ruthless and dangerous people I know. God help Quebec.

Within limits, Im confident my anonymity is secure. The various email and web accounts I have do not have a big sign that says Time Machine This Way --. In order to be at risk I would have to be believed. In my experience, evil may be powerful, but they arent very bright.

((you couldn't even answer the simple question of what will be the next 'movement' in music? just something so simple as that))

Unfortunately, your question is rather difficult for me. Any personal experience I might have with your worldline at a specific moment is limited to my viewpoint and age. I cant tell you what music is popular in the next few years because the me here is only three years old. In addition, how does someone decide what the most popular music trend is? It would seem rather subjective to me. Thinking about it now I sort of wonder what it would be like to be a teenager now and know the answer to that question. When I was thirteen I used to worry about which shotgun slug would take a door handle off and whether or not I had any dry socks. Current fallout estimates are accurate but a bit exaggerated.

Your example of what people would do based on something I might say is accurate. However, my concern would be the potential actions of a single person, not the masses. In 1963, if I suggested that someone should watch the book depository windows as the President went by, the actions of a single person might have a huge impact on history. You also asked if Ive visited my past family. Thats where I am now.

((1) Once a micro-singularity is produced and placed in statis in a magnetic field, what is the approximate strength of that magnetic field.

2) How is the magnetic field produced (I mean - what power source holds the field in place)?

3) What would happen to the microsignularity if that source FAILED? For instance would the microsingularity begin to grow? Or would it cease to exist?))

These are excellent questions that I probably wont answer to your satisfaction but let me make a couple of points first. Although I am familiar with the general manufacture of the unit, I am not a physicist or a scientist. My background is in history and I had the correct profile to accomplish my given task in 1975. I doubt that most jet fighter pilots are aeronautical engineers and Ill bet most of you couldnt give me the formula for horsepower, yet you drive a car every day.

The second point I can illustrate with an interesting story. In the opening phases of WWI, one of the largest problems early fighter pilots had was how to shoot a machine gun through the propeller blades without chopping it to bits. The problem was very straightforward. When the engine was off, the blades took up only a small percentage of the total arch but with the engine on, there was seemingly no way to know when it was safe to shoot through them. This problem lasted for quite a while until a very smart person came up with a very simple solution. By using a small lobed cam on the propeller shaft that controlled a switch on the machine gun, it was possible to stop the gun from firing only when the cam turned off the switch at the point a bullet might hit the blade. It was so simple in fact, the other side only caught on to the idea after one of the planes crashed and they were able to take it apart.

My point is; seemingly very complicated problems often have very simple and ingenious solutions using technology that is already available. The distortion unit is not magic and no alien technology was required to make it work. If you could see it, the smarts that went into designing it will amaze you more than the technology. Heck, the really interesting technology is in the computer.

The magnetic field does not require the fantastic energies you might imagine. The field is created and captures the singularity inside a very large and powerful specially designed particle accelerator. If the magnetic system failed (which has numerous backups including a system that would remove it from this worldline), the singularity would evaporate. Although it is smaller than an electron, it would still be quite undesirable.

((why do you keep telling us about the ww3..etc.. how do you know that will even -happen- in our worldline? it may have already been nipped in the bud for all you know..because ours is a different -worldline- from yours!))

Yes, you are correct! However, I am not confident things are different enough for you to avoid the conflict. You may also consider the possibility that a world with no war is far less desirable in the long run. In response to your other point, your assumptions about causality are correct but my personal morality still comes into play. I wont deviate from my three rules because of the way I would feel about myself.

The singularities do not create Tipler cylinders they create the same physical environment without all the mass. The same math works for both. There are two singularities. Their mass and spin is altered in order to adjust the size of the ergosphere and cause the event horizons to interact and create the gravity sinusoid. I have a basic home schooling education (k-12) and a bachelors degree in history.

I will get to the remaining questions soon.

John

Posted by Blonnie Dowden on 02-12-2001 09:35 PM

i am simply going to answer many questions at once.. read above for sources.. i do not site the source of the question. i also want to note that i'm a very -unskeptical- person..i kinda have the philosophy that anything is possible .. i infact, believe that time travel does most likely exist.. but mr titor you have skirted around too many questions to be believable. someone asked why they could not find a 'titor 'listed in florida.. & you failed to answer that question.. here are my responses.

(a summary of a question) "he was only 3 years old now..how would -he- know what the next big movement in music was?"

..i know that madonna was a HUGE THING in the 80's.. yet i was only born in 81!! i know that 'dallas' & 'dynasty' & 'falcon crest' were big time t.v. shows then..but i was very young. why wouldn't he know of such simple things as that? & even if he was just 3..he was 5 & 6 & up to 38 before he 'came here'..!!

another response:
"I was alive when Desert Storm took place, do I know the month it happened? No.. I wouldn't expect John to either. Plus, History books from that time would probably contain things about the war from 2005, possibly things leading up to the war. Not inventions like 'Ginger' and pop artists!

History books might mention some things, but they just give a year most of the time if it is not of grave importance, they more than less are going to just give the year and say what it did. "

i never asked for an exact month - i asked for a rough time period. you do not need a history book to know the things that i ask - because i'm asking things that are common knowledge among -society-. in our 'dumbed down' society.. even the people w/the largest lack of knowledge about current events know popular things that are occuring. & if they happen to be three years old right now - don't you think they'd say 'well, when i was 13, -guzzenberry- was a big t.v. show'. i need no history book to know that by the time i was 5-9 she-ra dolls were a big time thing.. & they were the next rave of toys. or that 'we didn't start the fire' or whatever it's title.. was a big hit song.. if you were a person at that time..you'd remember those sorts of silly little things.

mr titors response to my question (mine in parenthesis):

"((you couldn't even answer the simple question of what will be the next 'movement' in music? just something so simple as that))

""Unfortunately, your question is rather difficult for me. Any personal experience I might have with your worldline at a specific moment is limited to my viewpoint and age. I cant tell you what music is popular in the next few years because the me here is only three years old. In addition, how does someone decide what the most popular music trend is? It would seem rather subjective to me. Thinking about it now I sort of wonder what it would be like to be a teenager now and know the answer to that question. When I was thirteen I used to worry about which shotgun slug would take a door handle off and whether or not I had any dry socks. Current fallout estimates are accurate but a bit exaggerated."

you say popular music would be subjective..but i say: even though i am not a fan of rap music..i know it came to the forfront in the 80's.. run dmc.. the fresh prince.. ton loc. (ok, i kinda like those bands..but the more modern day ones i care little for..).. i know that madonna for instance was on countless billboards in the 80's & was known for her 'sex' driven image..michael jackson was the 'king of pop'.. - milli vanilli -sucked- & that 'the new kids on the block' were a rave w/my generation.

you also say this:
"Your example of what people would do based on something I might say is accurate. However, my concern would be the potential actions of a single person, not the masses. In 1963, if I suggested that someone should watch the book depository windows as the President went by, the actions of a single person might have a huge impact on history. You also asked if Ive visited my past family. Thats where I am now."

when i ask you a question of why you can't tell us 'there will be an earthquake in isreal in 2010..' or something of the such..this is not a question that someone could CHANGE. it is a natural disaster & i purposely chose that sort of a disaster so the question could not be passed by as you did in your response. however, you choose to use a different type of example rather than answer my question -directly-..

i am a basic naive -schmuck-..in that i am gullible & like to believe everything. i've heard of the planet 'nibiru' & find the theories extremely interesting & i even think it could be/might be true.. i do believe in time travel & i even think that we are perhaps being visited -now- by time travelers.. however, i don't know if this is -true-..just a possibility.

i just think you skirt around too many issues .. & by refusing to even mention something from the 'future' that could not be -changed- by people -today-..it just gives me further evidence that you are not who you say you are.

i apologize to be so blunt.. but you skirt around so many questions that i just find you hard to believe.

Posted by Mike Kolesnik on 02-12-2001 11:00 PM

Red face

This could be a good exercise in Logic and Critical Thinking. I will try to approach this from a math set theory point of view.

1. John says he is a TT. ( Ok, here we have a basic statement)

2. John says he came here (1975 actually) for an IBM 5100 computer. ( Ok, he has a purpose)

3. John wants to remain anon but posts numerous posts to this board and at least 2 others where he expounds on, among other things, the functioning and design of the TT machine.
(OK, here is the BIG problem. Why would a TT'er reveal himself & the TT machine? In John's stated mission, these actions have no purpose.)

4. John alludes to a civil war being started between the Democrats and Republicans. Later, this escalates into WW3 and he mentions that it is a "good" thing for our soceity. ( 3 billion people dead a "good" thing?)

5. John tells us to: buy a gun, find 5 friends, get a bicycle, yada, yada, yada. ( this conflicts with his above comments: here he seems to want to save some people, while above he wants to kill us all off)

6. In previous posts John mentions that he has no idea what GINGER is but in a later post he mentions media hype and alludes to IT not amounting to much.

7. John mentions the Big War(2015) was between the Cities of America (the enemy of John) and Russia, China, etc.(so not only do we have a civil war but now we have a war between the city folk and rural folk in the US, AND a world war)

8. John says the civil war which starts in 2004 or 2005 (depending on the post) leads to the world war which starts in 2015. ( So we have a TEN YEAR civil war???)

9. John mentions that the mechanical typewriter is a major machine again in the future, but in another post says the Internet still exists and is widely used.
( Who builds typewriters anymore and who last used the typewriter in a most infamous way? Hint: he lived in a one room cabin in Montana and hated technology and soceity)

Responses???

Posted by John Titor on 02-12-2001 11:51 PM

I almost made it to bed
Im flattered you went back and double checked.

((3. John wants to remain anon but posts numerous posts to this board and at least 2 others where he expounds on, among other things, the functioning and design of the TT machine. OK, here is the BIG problem. Why would a TT'er reveal himself & the TT machine? In John's stated mission, these actions have no purpose.))

I still fail to see why this is a problem. If you can think of another way where I can interact with people I would very much like to hear your suggestions. Why isnt the mere act of speaking with other people an end in itself? Personally, I find the unit interesting and I like talking about it. There must be something in your life like that.

((4. John alludes to a civil war being started between the Democrats and Republicans. Later, this escalates into WW3 and he mentions that it is a "good" thing for our soceity. ( 3 billion people dead a "good" thing?))

I dont believe I ever said the war was between Democrats and Republicans. If I am incorrect, please point that out. It doesnt exactly escalate as much as it opens the door for other aggression. Yes, I think the war would be good for society and I would be happy to debate that with you.

((5. John tells us to: buy a gun, find 5 friends, get a bicycle, yada, yada, yada. ( this conflicts with his above comments: here he seems to want to save some people, while above he wants to kill us all off))

If you could point out how this violates the three guidelines I stated earlier I will give it considerable thought. Perhaps you are correct and that was a mistake. Again, I dont believe I said I want to kill you. Personally, I think murder is wrong. You seem to be pretty good at that yourself.

((6. In previous posts John mentions that he has no idea what GINGER is but in a later post he mentions media hype and alludes to IT not amounting to much.))

Again, I dont believe I said that either. My point in that conversation was about feeling manipulated by hype. Since they ARE asking you to buy something, I would be very interested in your lengthy and critical postings about ITS credibility. If you could post that link I would very much like to see it.

((7. John mentions the Big War(2015) was between the Cities of America (the enemy of John) and Russia, China, etc.(so not only do we have a civil war but now we have a war between the city folk and rural folk in the US, AND a world war))

Hmmmare you familiar with the Russian partisan movement in WWII?

((8. John says the civil war which starts in 2004 or 2005 (depending on the post) leads to the world war which starts in 2015. ( So we have a TEN YEAR civil war???))

Its 2004. I apologize for a missed key (very observant we all need good critics). Perhaps our definition of war is different. I would define it as a conflict where organized groups engage in maneuver and armed conflict. The first U.S. civil war lasted 4 years and the English civil war lasted 6. How long is too long?

((9. John mentions that the mechanical typewriter is a major machine again in the future, but in another post says the Internet still exists and is widely used.
( Who builds typewriters anymore and who last used the typewriter in a most infamous way? Hint: he lived in a one room cabin in Montana and hated technology and soceity))

Actually, what I said was, you may be surprised at how many people use typewriters. I dont understand the conflict. Whats wrong with typewriters? At least you dont have to plug them in.

Thanks for the patiencegetting to the other questions.

Posted by Rick Donaldson on 02-13-2001 07:54 AM

First off, the clown who called everyone "sheep" here is out of line. Go BACK and read my posts, CAREFULLY. No one here is a sheep. We are interested in what the guy had to say, because he made several points, some of them very sound, scientifically.

I really detest people like you who go around and make rash assuptions about "everyone on this list" or another list. You're the same kind of jerk that goes around and tells the media that "all militia members are a bad", or "guns are a bad thing". The same kind of person that wants people like "Social Services" to pidgeonhole everyone. Instead of insulting the intelligence of the people who are here trying to use deductive reasoning to ascertain the truth about someone's means, motive and methods, why don't you go back to your little world and leave the rest of us alone who are trying to find out the truth about someone!? Absolute, denial of any possibilities is your bag. Go deny Big Foot exists, or go deny that the military has an Area 51.

Mr. Titor, no, you didn't answer my questions at all regarding singularities (except that they would 'evaporate', or the device would 'remove itself from the time line').

In fact, regardless of your background you should have a basic understanding of physics. I'm absoultely CERTAIN that if you're a pilot of an aircraft you ARE an engineer to an extent in that you understand BASIC PHYSICS of how your aircraft flies.

If you're a race car driver, evidence points to the fact that even THEY have a very good understanding of their cars, engines and the physics thereof.

I know for instance that my Jeep is capable of about 198 horsepower. I know that it uses fuel injection. I'm not a mechanic, but I can certainly tell you a great deal about how an internal combustion engine works. I can tell you how a bicycle functions (because I used to ride them). I can tell you a good deal about physiology as well - the human body, BECAUSE I HAVE TO KNOW!

By the way, I don't remember the "horsepower forumla" off HAND, but I can tell you 1 hp = 746 watts. I am an engineer - and I can tell you this much more, if you're a real time traveler from 2036 and time travel is as easy (and as often) as you say it is, and you're in the military or some government service, then by 1) exposing yourself, you've very likely broken several regulations, 2) Put yourself at risk by doing so, 3) should know a hell of a lot more about the machines you're operating, 4) are inconsistent in several aspects of your posts.

In other words John - you're an apparent fraud. That's too bad, too. These people here want to know the truth, they want to believe that there are time travelers, and that perhaps TT would even explain the UFO pheonomenon or other things that are unexplained in the world today. If you were a real person and you have gone so far as to tell us "I'm real, but I don't care if you believe me, in fact I don't want you to believe me"... then you've got a serious problem with reality - not relativity.

By the way, I have some very extreme reasons to doubt that a microsignularity exists in the first place, and in the second place, if it DID exist, I doubt it would be the "size of an electron". In any case, a signularity (a black hole for those of you who haven't figured that out yet) is an extreme mass, and holding it in a magnetic field in a gravitational field as strong as Earth's would simply rip the singularity from the magnetic field causing the black hold to crash to the center of the mass of Earth. The Earth would then become part of the black hole as it grew in size, pulling in the matter of the Earth.

At least that's what physics says. If there are "fail safes" on such a device, the device's power would have to be backed up multiple times, and then STILL FUNCTION (to 'rotate the craft out of this time line') to save the existing time line from major problems.

Sorry folks, too many holes (not black holes) in this theory.

[Edited by Rick Donaldson on 02-13-2001 at 08:01 AM]
Posted by Chris Greycheck on 02-13-2001 08:57 AM

Thumbs up

Rick (& John)

Rick, you've made some very good points and criticisms regarding John and his claims.

That's right, even a racecar driver has a basic understanding as to the physics involved in his car, so John, why can't you explain your "time machine" in greater detail?

And just for the record the formula for horsepower is something along the lines of reldline rpm X 35 / 6500...
I know that's not the right formula, but it's something like that, I can check it in my "Top 10 Torque Monsters" of Motor Trend magazine.

Posted by Mel Reckling on 02-13-2001 09:14 AM

John,
A couple of questions
1. Is the Chevy truck better than the Ford truck for time travel. I always thought the TT package meant trailer towing. Geez was I wrong! Is Chevy still making time travel machines in 2036?

2. How did you buy your truck? How could you title it if you are only 3 years old to the title bureau at this point?
You won't be able to sell it in Minnesota unless it's in your name and clear. Is the Chevy newer and how did you pay for it? Did you scrounge around to find 40 year old currency in 2036? I know I wouldn't take any money from someone that had mint marks from 2036.

3. Does the truck have to be running when you are travelling
through time. Did you come here in a Chevy? What if you run out of gas? Are there any factory options that make it easier, like cruise control?

That's all I can think of for now.

Posted by John Titor on 02-13-2001 10:51 AM

((1)Have you ever went on any other time traveling missions? If so, what were they?))

Yes, but they were all training missions. There is a great deal of psychological profiling and testing and one of the training missions involved choosing a time in your life (within two years) where you wish you would have done something different and then going back to convince yourself to do it. The idea is to become familiar with the possibility of meeting yourself which can be rather difficult. It is quite odd to look at yourself and have a conversation. Since any you on another worldline would not be a mirror image, you get a slightly distorted feeling while seeing yourself, let alone the concept of speaking to yourself

(2)I believe you said you had pictures of your time machine, could you post a link to uploaded images?

I would be happy to do that and I tried a link earlier. I suspect that attaching links to other boards without the Sysops permission is in bad taste.

(3)If you have any pictures of the IBM computer you were susposed to get, could you post a link to them also?

Im pretty sure there must be something on the web now about the IBM 5100.

(4)I looked up the name 'Titor' in the state of Flordia on 555-1212.com and couldn't find ANY Titors, is your family not listed in the phone book?

I guess it depends when you look.

(5)Can I contact you through any other means of online communications? Like AOL Instant Messagner? ICQ? MSN? Something so I can have a conversation with you! But if you don't have those, could you possibly consider downloading one of them, then emailing me your user name abcs_123s @ hotmail.com,nks!

Ive tried talking online before and found it quite enjoyable but I find the questions and comments come so rapidly its hard to keep up.

(6)What is the specific Date that the Nuclear war starts? If you can't remember the exact date, could you put the month at least? An estimate!

I remember the exact date. When it comes, it will not be a surprise.

(7)What is the speed of the average computer in the future? I am assuming it is in ghZ, if it is higher, could you post the name of that hZ measurement and its relation to the ghZ?

Ghz is not a useful measurement. Computers are no longer measured by their speed as mush as the number of variables (not calculations) they can handle per second.

(8)Can you do your own Time Traveling ventures whenever you want? If so, how much does it cost? Or can you make 'pit stops' along the way back to 2036?

No, the unit doesnt belong to me. I cant make stops on the way home as it will throw the gravity measurements off and It would force me to backtrack along the backtrack. Also, I cant just leave and arrive at any place and time I want to. There are physical and technical limits to when and where I can go.

(9)Have you ever went past your future, like to 2050 or somewhere around there? If so, what is the world like then?

No, I havent been to the future of my 2036. My profile qualified me for a trip to the past.

((what about marilyn monroe? i wasn't even born yet when she was alive - but i know she existed? & telling us something such as her existance would not greatly affect the outcome of our entire world.. so why not tell us?))

I understand your position and appreciate your supportive outlook. However, I have given some very detailed information that could be checked out. Please consider that our frame of reference is quite different and finding subjects to discuss and exchange information about could be a challenge. Im just not up on music, Hollywood and sports in the year 2001. You could ask me all you want about 1975 but I suspect thats not very impressive.

((but it has nothing to do with his age..))

Actually it does, I have never personally experienced this time as an adult and Brittany Spears was not a big topic of conversation when your hiking through the swamp. Everything I know about your time is from books, magazines and old videotapes that werent destroyed in the war. If it makes you feel any better, I do struggle with not talking about football.

The animal Kingdom is alive and well. Im sure it suffered but there fewer people infringing on animal's habitats now. Nuclear war is a very undesirable thing but it is not the end of the world. There are areas and cities we cant enter and the environment did suffer a great deal of damage but we are recovering. Isnt Hirroshima a thriving city today? The major physical affects include skin cancer, infertility, infection, etc. Almost everyone has some sort of physical remnant from the war.

I am aware the concept of the Rapture is related to Christian Prophecy but I am not familiar with the details. Yes, there are people I trust here and I would hate for any harassment or harm to come to them. I am aware of the Mayan Calander but in 2012, it was not something I was able to think about. When the time comes, Im sure people will find the signs they are looking for that leads them to the end of time.

When I say fear will keep you alive I am talking about the natural instincts and premonitions that we all trun off when its convienent. The same person who has five dead bolt locks on their door will think nothing about getting into a parking garage elevator with a total stranger. I think the fear of God is the fear of separation from God.

Some of you may wonder what a time traveler does with his day while hes posting on the web. I spend a great deal of time downloading information and storing it for my return. Arts site is definitely on that list. Ill have to think about who the most remembered people are. Again, my viewpoint is quite squewed.

((1)Who is the Major Super Power? ))

It depends on how you define power. If you mean military, the world has developed into an odd balance. There are plenty of nuclear weapons left but if anyone uses them they will be instantly erased from the planet by everyone else regardless of the politics. We are very tired of war.

(2) Are the two political parties still Republicans and Democrats?

There are no Republicans or Democrats to speak of. There are now over 10 major political parties.

(3) How many States are there?

The states as you know them still exist but their political power has been combined with other states around them. There are now 5 major geopolitical areas in the united states.

(4) Which states get the worst?

When you cant drink the water its bad everywhere.

(5) Were only cities along the Eastern Sea port hit in the Nuclear War, or all over the country?

Mostly cities and large military areas in the entire country.

(6) Do companys like Microsoft, Yahoo!, and other internet software companys still exist?

No.

(7) Does money look alot different than it does now? If you have a picture, could you please upload it and post the link!

No, money is pretty much the same. Unfortunately, I do not have any money with me because I wouldnt be able to use it here.

(8) So then when you time travel you can never actually go back to the EXACT same place you left from?

That is correct, in physical terms, I can never get back to the exact worldline I left from.

(9) Was alot of the United States' 18-24 age group slaughtered in the war because of Draft?

Yes.

(10)Do you ever get visitors from later time periods to 2036?

Not that Im aware of but I cant say it isnt happening.

(11) Are there any other companys, besides the one you work for that have TTs and send them out regularly?

I work for the military. GE just makes the unit.

(12) Does the government know there is TT going on?

In 2036, yes.

(13) Why were YOU selected to be a TT? What gave you special qualifications?

I am related to a key figure in the development of the IBM 5100.

(14) How many TTs are there on the team that you are on? How do new recruits get selected?

My unit has between 6 and 10. When I left, there were 7 others. Military service, physical fitness, history or technical background and special relationship to target contacts get you in the door.

(15) What all countrys are on our side in the war? What all countrys are on the oposite side?

Dont have much to add there.

(16) Which country gets the worst in the war?

Again, the entire world is affected. Even if you dont take a direct hit, dying crops and no water can ruin your day.

My time traveling nemesis Javier (a.k.a. TTA) has found me yet again! As long as the links last, I do urge people to go back and take a look at some of the more insightful things you have to share.

((when i ask you a question of why you can't tell us 'there will be an earthquake in isreal in 2010..' or something of the such..this is not a question that someone could CHANGE. it is a natural disaster & i purposely chose that sort of a disaster so the question could not be passed by as you did in your response. however, you choose to use a different type of example rather than answer my question -directly-.))

I will not share information that would allow someone to avoid death by probability.

((i just think you skirt around too many issues .. & by refusing to even mention something from the 'future' that could not be -changed- by people -today-..it just gives me further evidence that you are not who you say you are.))

Again, what I think is important doesnt impress anyone and although I could point to various things Ive said about other subjects the response is usually ho-hum tell us about music and sports. I suppose I could lie and make something up but whats the point?

((In fact, regardless of your background you should have a basic understanding of physics.))

I do but your questions were rather specific. I would love to talk physics and Ill be happy to walk through the operation of the unit.

((1) exposing yourself, you've very likely broken several regulations,

No, I havent.

((2) Put yourself at risk by doing so,))

Yes, thats potential true but what I gain offsets that. Does that statement answer the question why time travelers do not revel themselves?

((3) should know a hell of a lot more about the machines you're operating,))

I do know very much about it. Im just not willing to share it with everyone.

((4) are inconsistent in several aspects of your posts.))

If you could point out the specific questions I will be happy to address them.

((By the way, I have some very extreme reasons to doubt that a microsignularity exists in the first place, and in the second place, if it DID exist, I doubt it would be the "size of an electron". In any case, a signularity (a black hole for those of you who haven't figured that out yet) is an extreme mass, and holding it in a magnetic field in a gravitational field as strong as Earth's would simply rip the singularity from the magnetic field causing the black hold to crash to the center of the mass of Earth. The Earth would then become part of the black hole as it grew in size, pulling in the matter of the Earth.))

Im not sure if you want me to go over these issues one at a time or if youre just making a point.

The formula for horsepower is HP = torque X RPM / 5252.

((1. Is the Chevy truck better than the Ford truck for time travel. I always thought the TT package meant trailer towing. Geez was I wrong! Is Chevy still making time travel machines in 2036?))

The vehicle must have a strong suspension.

((2. How did you buy your truck? How could you title it if you are only 3 years old to the title bureau at this point? You won't be able to sell it in Minnesota unless it's in your name and clear. Is the Chevy newer and how did you pay for it? Did you scrounge around to find 40 year old currency in 2036? I know I wouldn't take any money from someone that had mint marks from 2036.))

Dont worry. Fortunately, these are things were taught at time travel school in how to get around in the sarcastic 20th century. I said I didnt have any money from 2036. I have plenty from here.

((3. Does the truck have to be running when you are travelling through time. Did you come here in a Chevy? What if you run out of gas? Are there any factory options that make it easier, like cruise control?))

The vehicle must be standing still.

Posted by Benedict Gumby on 02-13-2001 11:07 AM

You still haven't answered my question from page 8
}

Posted by John Titor on 02-13-2001 11:23 AM

((I just have this to ask you. Do you recognize the name Benedict? I want to know because I fully intend to be a prominent figure within the next 20 years))

No, I can't say that I do. However, since I'm archiving all of this and will submit it with my report, it will eventually end up on our internet.

If you want to leave a meassage to yourself in the future, please feel free to do so. I would make it broad enough so your name or some other important word will pop up in routine search engine that "you" might be using in 2036.

Also, be aware that the "you" in my 2036 will be unaware that the you left a message at all.

Posted by Blonnie Dowden on 02-13-2001 01:14 PM

my question(i just think you skirt around too many issues .. & by refusing to even mention something from the 'future' that could not be -changed- by people -today-..it just gives me further evidence that you are not who you say you are.))

your response:Again, what I think is important doesnt impress anyone and although I could point to various things Ive said about other subjects the response is usually ho-hum tell us about music and sports. I suppose I could lie and make something up but whats the point?

you fail to understand why i ask the silly hum-drum questions. i do not truly care what the music/hollywood will be like in 5-10 years..my whole reason for asking the unimportant questions is because they are -unimportant-. you say that you can't answer questions about when a natural disastor occurs..or things that can be -changed- by people to alter the way they -should- happen. so i am asking questions that can NOT be changed. someone can not change the fact that "Girly G. Hottie" is the next big name in showbusiness'.. my whole reason for asking these things is so that in 5-10 years when you're "gone" i can say "holy bejezuz.., maybe that guy was for real!". that would be the extent of it..it's not like i could -do-change- anything.. i just want to know if you're real & you give no proof whatsoever that you're real. even if it's not an instantaneous realization..i would realize this when whatever you said would happen came true. i am -not- trying to be shallow w/my questions..these are no things that i -care- whether or not it's this or that.. it's just proof for me.

i'm beginning to think, as someone suggested - that you're writing a book & this is all material for it. you said you didnt want us to be sheep & just believe..you -wanted- us to ask questions. so if we ask questions then you can sew up any holes you have in your story.. so it will be the tightest & most realisticly possibly sci-fi time travel story ever. i don't like the idea that you could possibly be using all of these people & if you are *grr* shame on you.

Posted by John Titor on 02-13-2001 01:51 PM

((my whole reason for asking the unimportant questions is because they are -unimportant-))

If it's unimportant to you why would it be imporatnat to me?

Posted by Blonnie Dowden on 02-13-2001 02:00 PM

you are the most frustrating time traveler i've ever met!!!!!!!!!!!!!

(ok you're the only one i've ever met)
-
geez..why do you isolate that one question? the whole thing was used to mean that it was -unimportant- in the fact that just because you tell us those things ..we can not change or alter them.. they are just -proof-.. unimportant meaning why would it alter time by you telling us.. "keep an eye out for so-and-so..they will rise to fame." or something like that. we couldn't -change- that.. & if we could..why would we want to because it's "unimportant" in comparison to a bombing or drought or war..etc..

it is just PROOF THAT YOU'RE TRUE which you fail to provide.

you are aggravating.

-blonie-

Posted by James Boley on 02-13-2001 02:05 PM

There is a guy claiming your a fraud in another string entitled "I am from 2040..."

It would be interesting to see you go head to head.

Posted by Brad Jensen on 02-13-2001 02:39 PM

Fraud!!!

Go to my post in "I am from the year 2040..." and debunk my calculations on time travel.

You can't, because you are a fraud!

Posted by Craig Cuthbert on 02-13-2001 03:31 PM

This is getting just ...weird ...enough.

John Titor - Are you being obtuse about Bonnie's inquiries for more personal reasons? Her logic is pretty sound, and you're avoiding discussing some of the things that people naturally find curious about other cultures. If I was traveling in any other cultural setting, I would want to know about ... The Culture. What kind of music is popular, what kind of recreation is enjoyable, what holidays are important...

Being a bit coy, I would say, for someone who's been through the rigors of such heavy historical dramas. My guess is that there are some simple folk songs that people find some pleasure in hearing, in the future (especially after cultural destabilizing events).

Do you feel some pleasure in breathing clean air and not having to check a geiger counter every few miles?

Are there people in this time period who are hip (aware) of Time Travelers and who accept you as one? I would imagine there are folk in our time, who travel in different circles (out of the mainstream), who have some money and/or some power, and who know things that the rest of us do not. Are you, or others, in touch with people like that? How ARE you financing things?

And if this is NOT for real, working that tongue a little harder 'gainst the edge of your cheek - for the rest of us simpletons, could earn you some game points.

Posted by Jeffery Birks on 02-13-2001 05:39 PM

I spotted few typing errors in Johns comments so I will assume that he has had an average education by our standards. There are better questions than those posed, ones which he should find easier to answer, but for anyone else would be much harder;

1. Name the immediate political succeosor's to George Bush and Tony Blair.

2. Name any human being/animal/invention which became famous from obscurity prior to today (This is really easy, just name anyone who shot to fame for anything - provided they are completly unknown now, and that it happens soon).

3. Name any near future shock event that makes history - political assasinations, inventions, marriages etc, same rules - it should happen soon with nobody having a clue it was about to happen (exept maybe time-travellers).

4. If you are older than 36 then there should be 2 of you here right now. You would both possess the same basic fingerprints and DNA. If you really want to prove your case then meet up with your younger self and get some police evidence.

Posted by Angel Lynnn on 02-13-2001 06:10 PM

Exclamation

John,
Would you be willing to call in on Art's show on Wednesday, Feb. 14? He will have open lines all night.

If he had a time traveler line open would you call in?

How long will you be here in 2001?
When are you going back?
What all are you taking back with you?
Is propane still around in the future?

Thanks for taking the time to answer our questions.
Angel Lynnn

Posted by Roy Meserve on 02-13-2001 06:43 PM

A most compelling story and an interesting person. I am no
scientist so cannot question adequately the physics invol-
ved in such endeavors- but I could not understand Al Bielek
and his recounting of the science behind the Montauk episode
either, but I know he was telling the truth. For those int-
ersted, from that interview and Mr Bielek's book, I fully believe time and space travel exists,(since 1983) although under exactly whose aegis I do not presume to know.
And your socio/eco/political comments about our present state and its fate are eminently believable and highly likely.
I would hope that the paradise I live in would somehow be spared (the Hawaiian Islands) but I suspect it would not be spared as a strategic target for obvious reasons. Indeed, in general terms I understand innately for myself why these things must come to pass. May God have mercy on our souls.

Thanks for your own curiosity and courage. I wish you and your family only the best...for all time.

R.C. Meserve
rcmeserv @ lava.net

Posted by Mike Kolesnik on 02-13-2001 06:55 PM

Talking

But I will absolutely not get sucked into another "Waverider" hoax.

Come on people, don't you remember the Waverider?
The Waverider and his fantastic faxes to AB?
Well I do.
And I admit he suckered me too...for a while.
I also remember when he went on the show and made a complete fool of himself. Art finally came to his senses too and blasted him. It would be nice to find out the date he was on and get a copy of the broadcast.

Webmaster? A little help please.

Well anyway, back to the subject matter. I don't hate John and I don't dislike him either. I am nuetral about him.
There is a world of difference between him and the Waverider though. John has an articulate manner of writing and has an amazing command of our present language (35 years old by him) I also went back and reread ALL his posts and I only found one spelling error and no grammatical errors, so he pretty much shames me on that count. His written content seems to be well subdued and consistent. (except for the 2004 vs. 2005 thing) John seems to be of above average IQ and conducts himself in a dignified manner.

Of course all this analysis was made from his posts so he could be an entirely different person in real life.

Since I am not completely galvanized against John I have thought about the possibility of Human TT. (ET TT is another matter)

Logically though the revelation of his TT ability still makes no sense, as he could easily question people of this time and get all sorts of info without revealing himself.

So that leads to the question why would he reveal himself if he has no stated aganda for doing so?

Some hypothesis:

1. John IS a TT'er who has a hidden agenda. It could be as simple as a gentle nudge in a certain direction. ( It aint gonna happen John, for the most part humans are a stubborn illogical lot whose memory of past events is in the area of weeks, instead of years or decades)

2. John came here to give somebody a "Back to the Future" type of push so as to invent the Time Machine. ( My opinion on this is that no one needs to "invent" the TM because if is has been built in the future then it has always been invented, and we are merely waiting for someone to "discover" it. Just look back at most of the major advancements in science, almost every invention of science already existed, it only needed people to put it together.
About the only things humans have invented deal in the arts. music etc. This opinion comes from the "all times exist at once" theory.)

3. John came back for some kind of nostalgia tour and has decided to take a rest stop in 2001 ( don't stay too long John or you will become polluted by us to such an extent you will probably end up in Vegas hocking your TM at the tables!)

4. John came here to witness some catastrophic near future event and won't tell us about it (to me this would be the most plausible reason of them all because whatever he tells us would be rendered mute by the "event")

5. < your thoeries here>

Posted by Javier Cortez on 02-13-2001 07:10 PM

Smile

I'd just like to say, before John Titor, (A.K.A. TT_0 in the post where he's been taken out almost) that when he posts, he does a maneuver that focuses the question back to the receiver, as to have him think it's been answered, and to shut him up. (Which in fact, he just avoided answering it, by doing what he did). He does this very often, and I'd just wanted to point that out before he did it again.

Hey TT_0, why didn't you acknowledge my last post? It's me TTA. I know your feeling the pressure, and it's only going to get worse.

-Javier C.

P.S. You should have seen Johns reply posts to me in the beginning. He likes to use the word "Kill" alot.

Posted by John Titor on 02-13-2001 11:32 PM

((John has been unable to explain time travel, I will explain it here.))

I could be wrong but I dont recall being asked to explain time travel. If you could point that out to me in the posts I would appreciate it.

So its ritualized combat on the battlefield of differential geometry. Its a shame we couldnt have more constructive dialogue on the subject. Of course, Ive left my physics book in the time machine so unless you snuck in a hidden land-mine, I found your opening move very straightforward. However, youre too confident I wont be able to offer an explanation that Im sure other physics fans will appreciate. I wonder if Einstein and Grossmann did it this way or maybe they just listened to each other and tried to build on what they thought would work. Oh well.

((..and debunk my calculations on time travel. You can't, because you are a fraud!))

When I look up debunk, I see: To expose or ridicule the falseness, sham or exaggerated claims. The reason I cannot debunk your calculations is because they are true. They are not false, based on speculative facts or exaggerated. They are just incomplete. What you really want me to do is finish your explanation or I will be an imposter.

((There are, however, certain quantities that do remain constant. These constants are related to four-dimensional quantities known as metric tensors.))

Actually, I dont think thats correct. Minkowski spacetime (4-D) will not allow you to use Pythagoas theorem to decribe tensors because time needs to be expressed with the opposite sign. (please excuse my change of varibale case).

ds^2 = -c^2dt^2 + dx^2 + dy^2 + dz^2
(where ds describes timelike and spacelike trips).

The tensor we should be discussing is:
ds^2 = -a^2dt^2 + w^2(df - wdt)^2 + (r^2/ D)dr^2 + r^2dq^2

I hope I got the symbols right but you should be able to recognize thisright? nuts... the a, f, r, Delta and q didn't make the translation in this font.

((The US government, including the UN, has its hands in everything from biological tests to secret planes that can fly out of Earths atmosphere.))

Care to share with me how you solved the overheating problem on your spaceplane?

Javier, dont worry. Ill talk to you too. Please check again and youll find my hello.

I will get to and review the questions I missed. I apologize if my answers seemed flippant. There are many posts I want to respond to and I am unable to pay as much attention as I would like.

Posted by Andrew Hubbard on 02-14-2001 04:10 AM

Question

This is great.

here is some questions:

1) Does the last name hubbard have any historical(is that the right term?) relevance?

2) What happens with Australia? does it play a major part in the war?

3) What colloquial language is used in the future?

4) What exactly happens to the water? does it get poisoned from radiation?

5) Have you actually met your parents? if so, what are their thoughts on you?

6) Does time have ends?

7) Lets just say that people from the future are manipulating events now, such as preventing a tragedy, making it never occur. If it never occured, no body would be sent back to stop it, which would mean that the event does take place. This would lead to the prevention of it happening again, and so on. What would happen in one of these situations?

Posted by Ryan Murphy on 02-14-2001 05:28 AM

John, if you really did travel through time you'd be dead. You have to take into account that the universe is expanding, the Earth, the solar system and the galaxy are all moving. If you truely did travel back through time, you'd materialize in 1970 where the Earth WILL be in 2036, which is the vacuum of space..

Posted by Rick Donaldson on 02-14-2001 06:25 AM

You requested I point out some inconsistencies. I'll point out one in the following exchange between you and I.

[[I do but your questions were rather specific. I would love to talk physics and Ill be happy to walk through the operation
of the unit.
((1) exposing yourself, you've very likely broken several regulations,

No, I havent.

((2) Put yourself at risk by doing so,))

Yes, thats potential true but what I gain offsets that. Does that statement answer the question why time travelers do
not revel themselves?

((3) should know a hell of a lot more about the machines you're operating,))

I do know very much about it. Im just not willing to share it with everyone.

((4) are inconsistent in several aspects of your posts.))

If you could point out the specific questions I will be happy to address them. ]]

Specifically, you stated my questions were "rather specific" and you'd be "love to discuss physics and happy to walk through the operation (I assume of the machine)". A few lines later you state (after me saying you should know a hell of a lot more about the machines you're operating) that you do know much about it, but you're not willing to share it with everyone. So... which is it? Are you willing to share information on the operation, a walkthrough of the machine, time travel... or AREN'T YOU?

Posted by Brad Jensen on 02-14-2001 07:01 AM

You have been challenged John. You have finished the space-time manipulation calculations, but left important details out, of which we will not expound on.

Read my reply in my string. Can you explain, just basicly mind you, the time travel process?

Posted by Rick Donaldson on 02-14-2001 07:18 AM

I conclude that John is:

1) Not from the future.
2) He has no time machine.
3) He is doing this for personal gain - whether monetary, or social-interaction, but more specifically, I believe he is working on either a psychology study/degree/thesis.
4) He is in his late 20's or early 30s.

If John were a time traveler, he would not be here telling us anything about himself. He certainly would not give us information regarding anything having to do with "future technology", regardless of the divergence of timelines. You see... even a semi-unethical person would have qualms about screwing up a society that you can taste, touch, feel and experience.

If John truely IS a time traveler (which he isn't in the sense he is trying to lead us to believe) then he is here to witness an historical event that we have yet to figure out. Either the beginning of World War III (which some of us already believe is about to happen) or the beginning of Civil war. I can postulate and guess all day, at all sorts of reasons - about all all sorts of things I can figure out on my own. In other words.. if John were a time traveler, he would be here NOW to watch something about to happen (very historical, very important...). If he would answer some questions about the physics of his alledged time ship, I would be willing to go along with this some more.

At this point... my points above (1-4) stand. John is a fraud.

Sorry John... it was fun while it lasted.

Posted by John Titor on 02-14-2001 07:25 AM

On a nearby thread, Brad writes:

((John has been unable to explain Time Travel, I will explain it here.

So where do we start? Well let us start with one of the greatest triumphs of the human mind, the great theorem of Pythagoras, a true pillar of all mathematics and physics. The theorem, which is applicable to right angled triangles in flat Cartesian (Newtonian) space takes the form of:

c^2 = a^2 + b^2

where a, b and c are the lengths of the sides of the triangle.

Next we will jump straight to Einstein's theory of Relativity which states that neither time, length, or indeed mass remain constant additive quantities when approaching the speed of light c. Our simple ideas of time and space come from the fact the we are so used to living in a three dimensional universe. Einstein showed that this was simply not true and in fact all the "foundational" three laws of Newton have to be fudged by the Lorentz factor

L_f = (1 - v^2/c^2)^-1/2

There are, however, certain quantities that do remain constant. These constants are related to four-dimensional quantities known as metric tensors. From this Einstein proved that space and time are two aspects of the same thing and that matter and energy are also two aspects of the same thing. From the second of these concepts we get the most famous equation in physics

E = mc^2

Now since time and space are aspects of space-time and we wish to travel through time and not build atom bombs we will leave E=mc^2 for the moment. To illustrate this, look at the extension of Pythagorean theorem for the distance, d, between two points in space:

d^2 = x^2 + y^2 + z^2

where x, y and z are the lengths, or more correctly the difference in the co-ordinates, in each of the three spatial directions. This distance remains constant for fixed displacements of the origin.

In Einstein's relativity the same equation is modified to remain constant with respect to displacement (and rotation), but not with respect to motion. For a moving object, at least one of the lengths from which the distance, d, is calculated is contracted relative to a stationary observer. The equation now becomes:

d^2 = x^2 + y^2 + z^2 (1-v^2/c^2)^1/2

and this implies that the distances all shrink as one moves faster, so does this mean there are no constant distances left in the universe? The answer is that there are because of Einstein's revolutionary concept of space-time where time is distance and distance is time! So now

s^2 = x^2 + y^2 + z^2 - ct^2

and this new distance s (remember s stands for Space-time) does indeed remain constant for all who are in relative motion. This distance is said to be a Lorentz transformation invariant and has the same value for all inertial observers. Since the equation mixes time and space up we have to always think in terms of this new concept: space-time!

Then one runs into the problem of 'outside dating'. Meaning, as the traveler manipulates space-time, the rest of the universe ages normaly. Then we must take inter-dimensional transition into account. Once a hole is ripped into a dimensions fabric, it follows whatever entered the rip. Once the travler enters the new dimension, he commences his engines to reach the c speed (speed of light), and travels through time. The rip on the travelers side will stay in the same geographic location, while traveling through time, while the rip on the new dimension will follow the traveler. Once the desired time is reached, the travelar reenters the rip, and he has effectively traveled through time))

((As for John Titor's corrections on space-time manipulation, he has completed it correctly. However, he still an imposter.))

Apparently, I have made the leap from fraud to imposter. At least thats a start and I respect my opponent on his polite yet quiet concession on the other thread. I wish to emphasize a point I tired to make earlier. Even though I answered the question correctly, it doesnt really prove one way or another if Im a time traveler and you should not think otherwise. I might just be really quick at looking up things up on the web.

I suppose we could debate whether or not I'm a fraud all the way up to the point I leave your worldline.

Posted by Mel Reckling on 02-14-2001 08:05 AM

Why do I keep flashing back to the Monty Python movie " Brazil "? The picture of those old typewriters with those hilarious screen magnifiers just sticks in my head. Is this the world we are heading towards where everything is so bizzarely complicated that nothing works?

Posted by Ernie Vega on 02-14-2001 09:05 AM

Angry

Time out!

I thought the idea here was to have constructive dialogue.
Personally I don't give a rat's behind whether or not John is from the future.

I have enjoyed this discussion more than any I've been in before. First off why the personal attacks? I've mentioned before that this guy is a study in self control. He never sinks to the level of the aggressor, some of us could learn from that.

NEWS FLASH:
In case somebody here has not noticed!
When was the last time you spoke with someone as intelligent and well versed in these subjects?

I hope John or whatever his name is writes a book. I'll publish him if he wants.

The story John tells is sobering, realistic, and ENTERTAINING.
The last time I looked participation here was discretionary. If you don't like the subject, either question the guy, expose the guy, or leave the guy alone. Alternatively you can learn from what he says.
I don't understand all the personal attacks.

Let's say that John is a "confused person" would it not be kinder to help him regain his senses, than to attack him.

Let's say he's writing a book. Hey John "great story" when does the book come out.

Let's say he's a hoaxer and really enjoys deceiving everyone and lies all the time. Mr. Titor we have a job for you in D.C. after the "Neanderthal" gets voted out in 4 years.

I know people who would consider John's world a reasonable improvement over what we have today. I agree with them.
If you had to guess what John's political affiliation was what would you say?

Democrat
Republican
Libertarian
Independent
Conservative
Liberal

None of it fits does it? I have revelation for you This guy is "an American".

As gloomy a picture as he paints, the society he describes is leaps and bounds ahead of us in their reverence for the Constitution which as John says we should all read.

JC has been on this guy's case for a while now and I don't see "Titor" insulting him or anyone else.

As to the frequency of the word "kill" in his posts. so what? it proves nothing and if you look at all the posts that statement is invalid.

Go read some of Ed Dames's garbage.

I'm not here to defend John I'm expressing my frustration with the posters that derive their ego gratification by attacking others and hitting below the belt.

By below the belt I mean "unwarranted personal attacks"

Read the rules of this BBS, you'll see that it's supposed to be an open forum for "discussions from the other side of the fence" if you want namby pamby traditional BS go to the Rush Limbaugh show, or maybe you like born again Christian lies, Jerry Fallwell has a few books to sell you.

To the physicists and physics enthusiasts. Let's see your proof, your CV, and your school transcripts. Do you want to talk about verifiable backgrounds?
Why don't you subject yourself to the same scrutiny that you subject others to. Most serious physicists would be hard pressed to come "here" of all places and "demand" empirically tested responses from a guy who claims to be from 2036. Get a clue!

I suggest that if he is an attention monger hoaxer, he got you. He made you get flustered and loose your sense of decorum. Your folly not his.

Before I forget. Anyone who has been on the Internet longer than 5 minutes knows that spelling errors, and grammatical errors are not considered to be indicative of a person's intelligence, or educational background.

No I will not engage in name calling on a personal basis, and I won't respond to flame e-mails, and I won't be posting any more in this thread. Some of you are childish and have a mob mentality. who wants to discuss time travel, physics, or the time of day, with a lynch mob.

Peace

[Edited by Ernie Vega on 02-14-2001 at 09:16 AM]
Posted by Rick Donaldson on 02-14-2001 09:44 AM

"NEWS FLASH:
In case somebody here has not noticed!
When was the last time you spoke with someone as intelligent and well versed in these subjects? "

Well... last time *I* personally spoke to someone about these subjects who is as 'well-versed' was about 30 minutes ago when I came from speaking to a couple of physicists upstairs. Somehow, I end up speaking to a lot of these types of folks (physicists) - I guess it might have something to do with the job I do for the government.

"The last time I looked participation here was discretionary. If you don't like the subject, either question the guy, expose the guy, or leave the guy alone. Alternatively you can learn from what he says. I don't understand all the personal attacks. "

You're right, however, I don't think we are attacking him, we are QUESTIONING HIM. Somehow I always see this out of liberally-biased people, when someone is being quizzed, these liberally-biased people complain of attacks when they (or their heros) can't answer questions to someone's satisfaction. He has not answered questions to anyone's satisfaction thus far. He has subjected himself to our scrutiny and you are jumping to his defense because you feel bad for him? Don't. He put himself in this position. He is responsible for the questions, not you.

"Let's say that John is a "confused person" would it not be kinder to help him regain his senses, than to attack him. Let's say he's writing a book. Hey John "great story" when does the book come out. "

Not at all. John is not confused. John is also not a time traveler, but he has a fantastic imagination. That much is true. Political correctness is not my forte, nor do I profess that anyone use it anymore. It is passe. Sorry. PC is thought control, and being NICE to someone so as not to hurt their feelings is a by-gone thing, of another era.

"Let's say he's a hoaxer and really enjoys deceiving everyone and lies all the time. Mr. Titor we have a job for you in D.C. after the "Neanderthal" gets voted out in 4 years. "

Hmmm... now, you bring me to the point of asking you - why are you now attacking the President of the United States? What has he to do with any of this? Why are you calling him a Neanderthal? Because your guy, Gore, lost the election? I'm sorry you feel that way, especially since you seem to think we ought to be nice to John and not attack him (even though we weren't). You thought, more than likely, we should have been nice to Clinton as well. I expect you to act the same way as you expect me to act. Don't attack the President (in particular since he has nothing to do with this conversation).

The one thing I can agree with you that was mentioned, that I didn't quote here was the idea of spelling errors, grammer errors and such. I'm certain I have spelling errors. I have almost 21 years of hard-core "schooling" and I make serious spelling errors all the time. That includes over 9 years of college, thoughout which, writing was one of the most important aspects. We all make errors, in spelling... judgement. Perhaps we could all be nicer to those of us who make spelling errors.

However, Ernie, when one places himself up for study, as has John, then one needs to understand that there will be questions. These are not attacks (as your crude comments about the President of the United States were), but questions concerning his veracity. Question yourself, before you judge others motives. I've questioned MYSELF on whether I should even consider joining this discussion. I did so based solely on my inherit need to know about things like time travel. I asked legitimate questions. They were ignored, then later, when I asked others, they were skirted. John is therefore, either a liar, writer or a man who simply doesn't want to get caught in a circle of lies from which he can not extract himself. That is too bad.

I really hoped it was the real thing, this time.

Posted by Kennith Viccars on 02-14-2001 09:50 AM

This is no more then a comedy sketch thread now.

Keep it coming, it's great material.

John, you ever consider doing stand up?

Posted by Rick Donaldson on 02-14-2001 10:24 AM

[ Register or Signin to view external links. ]

In case anyone is interested is looking at them.

Posted by Ernie Vega on 02-14-2001 02:53 PM

Red face

Touche? Rick:

I would have sent this to you personally but you won't accept e-mails. Your web site is unreachable. and ICQ is not an option for me. Do you actually use ICQ from work? where there is sensitive information?

I admit it was naive indeed for me to think I could get away with my last post without being taken to task for it.

So I hereby eat my words about not posting anymore. I guess that makes me a liar also.

Why did you assume I was directing my comments to you? my statements were not an indictment of your questions in particular. In fact I didn't consider "your" statements as an attack at all until you called JT a liar.

I'm not defending Titor or his claims, he did not answer some of my question to my satisfaction either, but I don't take that to mean I have license to call him a liar. Do you call everyone that doesn't give you a satisfactory answer a liar? if so does that really make sense?

As to scrutiny being self inflicted. I have personal experience there also.

If you care to look. I make statements on my web sites that yield thousands of e-mails pro and con. I deal with controversial topics, I write about them, and I market alternative energy devices. I use physics in my work every day.

Can you explain the mechanics of creating a trans-dimensional vortex?

What would happen if you mixed equal parts 4oz each of: bronzing powder, epoxy, and bee's wax,and NASA grade quartz, then into it you introduce a gold plated rod, introduce 2 coils, one on each side. Attach a tone generator to each coil reversing the polarities.
Then attach a power supply of to each tone geneator say, 12 volts / 500 Ma. Once the epoxy sets up.
Set one generator to pulse at 18 hz and the other at 11hz and pushed the on button? What would happen? any clue? If you could get this to spin at say 3600 rpm what would happen then?

What would the use of pi as opposed to phi in a formula for attenuating a static EMF do to a multidimensional construct?

If you could see zero point energy what color would it be?

Is there a sub-atomic particle that requires being aknowledged before it can be measured? If so explain why?

Why does water have molecular memory? If it does, does it mean we don't need to use drugs anymore, and we can just charge water with a sample?

How is homeopathic medicine prepared? do you really believe that, a homeopath in Schenectady New York has the equipment to perform a 40 million to 1 dilution of a microgram of some substance with any degree of accuracy?

I have my fair share of supporters and detractors regarding my life work, and political ideology.
I have been called everything you can imagine that is unpleasant, by people that don't know me at all. Excuse me if I take issue with this. Notice how quickly you labeled me a liberal. Why Rick? was it something I said? or did you make other assumptions about me? based on my profile? or my surname?

I don't deny anyone's right to say what they want. In fact I'll go to the mat for free speech. That's a basic right we have here in the U.S.

Your profile implies that you are a patriotic American. If so why don't you see what Titor is really doing. Patriotism is something near and dear to me. My family has lost much in defense of idealism.

My family has been involved in the military, government, and diplomacy for 900+ years, in many nations where my ancestors have lived starting with Spain and culminating here. I take politics and politicians very seriously, and you should also since they are the manipulators of our society, and attempt to architect our way of thinking.

All I know about you is in your profile and your post. None of it is enough for me to feel the need to insult you, or be condescending to you as your post was to me. I don't know you!

For the record.

I don't think anyone who ran for office last november was worth a vote.

I'm not a liberal.

Gore was never "my" guy.

Clinton is no better no worse than any other politician.

If P.C. is passe why can't I say the President is a neanderthal.

If you really like "guns, shooting" and you are interested in democracy, you should be reading the writing on the wall, like many other patriots.

In the not so distant future you may have to actually live up to the Patriotic ideal that gun advocates talk about all the time, and actually have to go out and defend the Constitution. Would you do this? I would, against all enemies foreign and domestic. This includes the governmet by the way.

I don't think the enemy is "Black" or "Hispanic" or from the middle east. If you have to fight for your country and your family during your lifetime it will most likely be against Americans of all races.

The office of the President of the United States is the most important job on the planet.
Much depends on the President's ability to think, and act in a decisive and clear fashion, our lives depend on it.

Although I don't know President Bush personally, nor would I care to make his acquaintance.
It is common knowledge that in the brain department he is (let's be P.C. so you don't have a partisan fit) to say the least "challenged". This is a matter of record not conjecture. Surely you are not going to deny that.

What would be your guess as to Dan Quaile's IQ?
Would you argue that point of light?
2 less than brilliant people as President, and Vice President in a row says as much about Republicans, as the Clinton scandals, and Gore's ineptitude say a about the democrats.

Can you honestly state here that in the last 8 years you did not voice any opinion about Clinton, or something personally disparaging about him or his wife. Did you ever call Carter a coward?

Did you just start your job at the government? if you started before the new administration why are you so quick to jump to your new boss's defense and so quick to indict your previous boss?

If you could, would you debate the President on internal issues? or foreign policy? I would. According to the Constitution everyone is fair game for scrutiny "especially" the President.

A large segment of the population has become indifferent to the actions of the FED.
We are all going to pay dearly for acting like "sheep".

Government Phycisists do not really discuss time travel with "System Engineers". Unless they are just conjecturing to impress you, and don't really know much more than you do.

If they did they would go to jail for telling you.
Unless of course you have adequate security clearance, in which case "you" would likely be in breech discussing it here. Moreover you would already know the truth about time travel, so there would be no point in seeking it here.

Working for the government does not of itself give you access to classified information. I worked for the government in the past and all it got me was an education in government squandering of taxpayer money.

You are a systems Engineer working for a government agency right? I have a 5 questions for you.
What happens to your budget next year if you don't use up all of this year's allotment?
What happens to the hardware that your agency replaces with newer models?
Have you ever performed a partisan task while on the job?
Have you ever made a political contribution to keep your job?
Have you ever used your office PC to surf the web for non work related reasons? See how easy it is to take a cheap shot.

It was government scientists that decided that Heroin addicts in methadone programs were being descriminated against when denied work driving Trains and buses, even piloting aircraft, or as air traffic controllers. The rationale was that since some addicts showed agitation, and others became lethargic, that in general Methadone does not have a deleterious effect on concentration, and coordination. They actually went as far as to publish that Methadone only has a placebo effect and does not produce a high.

Going to credibility and proof? Just how much is enough for you?

If I were to tell you a story that was fantastic in nature and read like a science fiction book. This story would relate meetings with high ranking Military officers, DOD operatives, The CIA. It dealt with UFO, E.T., global politics, and manipulation of the American press by foreign operatives in cahoots with the CIA. Would you believe?

I think not.

What if you were able to verify that all of the above actually took place by checking declassifed documents, addresses, military records, police reports, individual personal validation by witnesses, and the only thing you could not know for sure was what was discussed at these meetings.

Would you then believe? I doubt it, why? because the actual facts (the conversations) can't be verified.

I have lived such a story and I know I could never prove it to anyone's satisfaction, yet it really happened to me, I was nearly killed. I even have permission from the government to tell anybody I want because they know there's not a snowball's chance in hell that anyone (that counts)would believe it.

I have considered fictionalizing it but it irks me to have to lie so people will take me seriously. Since I don't need the money, and I don't want to have to respond to every question posed to me, intelligent or not, I choose to keep it to myself and my friends.

My point is that as hard as you try on this board, there is no way you are going to find the truth (about time travel at least)you are looking for until someone pulls up to you in a time machine and takes you to another time.

I enjoy a good debate as much as the next guy, and Im prepared to back up all my statements. I do however require a certain amount of civility to enter into protracted debate, as I believe that the moment you lose perspective, the conversation becomes moot.

I do feel that some personal attacks are valid. If a person is harming others with his statements, and has been "proven" to be dishonest, and malicious in intent.
Like the President for instance
I have no problem with anyone taking them on on a personal level. I do it so I would be a hypocrite to expect others not to.

Again I appeal to you to e-mail me if you want to carry this any further we are off topic now.

Peace

Posted by Heather Cattles on 02-14-2001 03:40 PM

I have to agree with Ernie in some aspects. So what if you don't believe he's a true time traveller? Leave it at that. I'm always open to ideas, I neither poo poo them nor do I automatically say their true. I like to say I sit on a line between where I can go either way. I'm not frowned upon because I make descisons too fast. There's a lot in this world we don't know.. everything from creatures, to diseases to even time travel.

Personally I find this thread interesting, without a lot of the just totally putting John down. If you don't believe him fine, leave it at that. John, you are an interesting person and I'm here and I enjoy seeing your replys, be it real or not. I'm just glad to see a person or two remaining cool in this and not going towards personal attacks.

John, if you are a true time traveller, when you leave to go back to the future, give my "Hello" to the future.

-Heather

Posted by Andrew Hubbard on 02-14-2001 05:13 PM

I feel my earlier questions were written without much thought. I have read all of your posts, and although I don't 'believe', I do find what you are saying very very interesting. I would like to rephrase a few of my questions, In hope that it may make it easier for you to answer (feel free to just answer yes/no). I am mainly interested in the roles/parts Australia plays (as I live here) in the war and then the general way of life after the war. I understand you may not have much information reguarding other countries, but I thought I would ask anyway.

1) What role does Australia play in the war? You stated elsewhere that they repulse a Chinese invasion - Does this mean Australian government side with your enemy? (As I think I recall you stating that they allied with your side + Russia... Could be wrong though.)
2) Does intercontinental transportation still exist? If so, have you visited other countries?

On a more observational note, the world you describe reminds me of the post sacked Trantor in Asimov's 'Foundation' series. And that makes me smile.

Thanks

Posted by Javier Cortez on 02-14-2001 07:48 PM

Smile

John,

Why do you not answer people's questions, but only answer certain questions that they ask?

Here's a question, why not answer Rick's Post? He brought out some good points, I'm sure there worth commenting on. And I'm pretty sure lots of people here would love to hear your input on them.

-J.C.

Posted by Craig Cuthbert on 02-15-2001 01:09 AM

Well John, I imagine you are here gathering technology for the forces of "Good" - or at least for the forces of just plain old decent folk doing the best they know how.

Today's news stories

"In a news report reminiscent of the days of the old USSR, Pravda recently claimed that Pres. Bush's National Security Adviser, Condoleezza Rice, made belligerent comments about Russia to the magazine El Figaro. Only problem: Rice was never interviewed with El Figaro. Rice's office tells NewsMax.com most of the claims made in the reports were fabricated."

Any idea whose provoking this?

...and this one

"MOSCOW The Russian military held air exercises near Norway and Japan on Wednesday, forcing fighter jets in both countries to scramble and eliciting a strong protest from Japan, which said the planes violated its airspace.

Japan's Foreign Ministry called in a Russian diplomat to protest and the defense agency said the Russian military planes violated Japanese airspace twice.

...

"Russia has sharply increased test flights of its planes since NATO's campaign in Kosovo," said Alexander Pikayev, a military analyst at the Carnegie Endowment's Moscow office. "The military wants to show that it's too early to write Russia off."

"Whether they violated airspace of not, that's not the key thing," said Pavel Felgenhauer, an independent military analyst. "They were demonstrating the rebirth of Russia's military might."

Pikayev said Wednesday's exercises may also be a response to recent signals from Washington that Russia no longer occupies a privileged place in U.S. foreign policy.

____

I got about 70-80% of your dimension ripping tutorial, BTW. Thanks

Posted by Chad Dirks on 02-15-2001 01:12 AM

Hrm, Mr. Titor, I do not believe anything that you have said, nor do I believe that you are in any manner what you claim to be.

...you are of course, welcome to hold the same opinion of myself, but since this does appear to be a forum for discussion, I shall try to lend what I can, yes?

(Please forgive my lacking grammar, and by all means, don't feel forced to read or respond, this is quite lengthy.)

1. You have claimed several times that you will not participate in assisting anyone to get out of 'death by probability'. Yet any number of the things that you have said could have already caused an individual to do or not do something that will now result in them either dying, or escaping death an otherwise fated death.

It does not matter whether or not everyone believes you. For every statement made there are people who believe you, and there are people changing their living patterns in response to those beliefs. There is no way for you know there is no future world leader reading this and believing.

------------------------------------------------------------

2. You claim that you have no interest in proving to us that you are a time-traveller. To hear you take such a stance is laughable. Look at what a show you have put on here. Instead you tell us that you only wish us to make us aware of time-travel as a possiblity (see #1 again), or that you only wish to observe us and speak of cultural and religious issues, something interesting to a historian.

You came and posted on this site with one intention that was clear as of your first post: to make us believe that you are a time-traveller. You have continued this thread for that purpose alone, and I find everything you have done supports this.

As far as wishing to speak of issues regarding our humanity, or culture, it is quite clear that this is not your intention (contrary to what you insist). If you truly wished to do this your first line would not have been, 'I am a time-traveller'. If you truly wished to do this you would not have continued this thread once you realized that line would not serve your claimed goals.

You certainly did not expect to examine our humanity or culture by first telling us that we would be disucussing it with a time-traveller. The entirety of this thread has been: you developing your story.

This thread that you have continued to participate in has gone entirely counter to your claimed goals, and it is obvious that you are knowingl fueling it in that direction.

------------------------------------------------------------

3. "5100 I have now required a couple of special tweaks that had to be done by one of the software engineers in 1975"

"We need something portable. The 5100 isnt required for its reliability, its needed to translate between APL, UNIX and a few obscure IBM mainframe languages."

I find it very difficult to belive that a software tweak (hence 'software engineers', -software-) done to a 1975 machine could cause it to do this translation more effectively or more portably than something around even today. I find it almost impossible to believe that a tweak done by a 'software engineer' in 1975 could provide for you something that you could find at no other place between now and 'your time', and certainly without having to make a stop-over in our time to get back that far.

Furthermore, I find the notion that one of a limited number of time-machines would be used in this manner to be nothing short of nonsensical. There are more effective ways to accomplish what you claim in this regard.

------------------------------------------------------------

4. I have, and continue to believe Dr. Hawking's view in regards to the possibility of time travel if indeed the model of time is what you have suggested, that all possibilities occur in different time-lines, in different universes is the way that time truly is. For this reason alone I cannot accept you. It is entirely logical, and I have seen no good case to counter it.

------------------------------------------------------------

You claim that you have no desire to prove your story to us, yet everything you have done from the moment you first posted here has flown in the face of that. As I mentioned before, your desire is so strong that you have even appeared to become heated in manner in reaction to your validity being questioned.

What is more, you bring with you the claim that you will tell us no names, no locations, or any specifics as a result of your supposed ethics. If those were indeed the ethics you were committed to and reasoned with, you would not be here now.

However, I do commend you on engineering your story, as by its very nature we cannot prove it false.

[I realize that I am only feeding this frenzy, but that speaks for what it is and what Mr. Titor has indeed accomplished, it is effective in provoking a response, but then again, so is stepping on a rusty nail]
Mr. Titor:
====================================
I visit with a pink unicorn in the garden behind my house at night and it talks to me. I would show it to you but it only comes out when I am alone. Any attempts to trick it to do otherwise would be unsuccessful, but you are certainly welcome to try and prove what I say false.

[Edited by Chad Dirks on 02-15-2001 at 01:34 AM]
Posted by Ryan Murphy on 02-15-2001 02:41 AM

Buddy.. listen..

This is for all you other believers to:

Time travel may be possible, but if you were to time travel, you would NOT land on Earth. You would land in a vacuum of space. You have to take into account that the universe is expanding, the Earth, the solar system and the galaxy are all moving. If you truely did travel back through time, you'd materialize in 1970 where the Earth WILL be in 2036, which is NOT Earth.. it's space.

Get it? You'd be dead. It's impossible.

Answer this factoid, John, and I will believe you until the ends of the Earth.

Posted by Dan Rouse on 02-15-2001 07:54 AM

Ryan...couldn't distance be expressed as a function of time?

If that's true, is it not possible that a time warp implies a space warp?

Posted by Rick Donaldson on 02-15-2001 08:07 AM

Heather, Ernie and others.. I did leave it at that. Haha. I posted my opinion. That's all I was doing. For the record, I have answered Ernie's letter offline due to the length of the response, and the fact that it is offtopic to a great extent, I did not post it here.

I have nothing against John Titor, Ernie or anyone else. I'm simply trying to get to the bottom of the story. Unless, and until John comes forward with more information, my opinion is formed and won't change.

I did however, post pictures of his time machine (actually, I posted the link where you can find them.. let me be more specific, I've never seen this thing in peson, though I would like to see it).

If John wants a way to prove anything - which from his previous posts he has stated he DOESN'T WANT TO DO - then I am more than willing to look over his proofs. However - just because I were to look something over gives no more meaning to the rest of you than it would if one of you looked his stuff over, believed it then told ME.

You see.. we live in a time when we must see to believe. All of us.

I think the thread is very interesting myself. I think the guy that called us Sheep is wrong and it is folks like HIM that completely close off education and communication. *I* am not trying to do so. I simply made some statements that I don't believe John is "for real". If he is, I would love to know he is. However, so far, he hasn't put enough evidence forward. So... PLEASE continue the thread and learn, if you can, the truth.

That's all *I* want.

Posted by Ryan Murphy on 02-15-2001 08:08 AM

It would be impossible to calculate where the Earth would be, either 30 years ago or 30 years from now.

Posted by Craig Cuthbert on 02-15-2001 08:28 AM

Hi All

I can see why Mr. Titor enjoys this.

You guys are pretty passionate about your beliefs. Then again, that's what its all about.

Going over a few of the posts, and I say that they are full of the classical - "I find it hard to believe, therefore I declare it to be impossible" - types of postulates. I can see the levels you are defining, in some cases, - and I can see that they are encompassed in possibilities you are not considering

Ex.

---I find it very difficult to belive that a software tweak (hence 'software engineers', -software-) done to a 1975 machine could cause it to do this translation more effectively or more portably than something around even today. I find it almost impossible to believe that a tweak done by a 'software engineer' in 1975 could provide for you something that you could find at no other place between now and 'your time', and certainly without having to make a stop-over in our time to get back that far. ---

Also, Ryan - I think John has provided some explanation regarding how positionings are affected by the mass and gravity of known OBJECTS. I would have to study the posts a little more carefully, though I would say that the variables used in computing projected postionings, rely heavily on detecting these known masses as opposed to trying to figure out where they would end up in space (and time).

One of the first assumptions I would discard is that physics suppositions are "either/or" proposals. My view (with a few years under my belt), is that things work more fluidly than that.

In viewing the following models take into consideration that the degrees I am talking about, are minuscule with respect to their effects on human activity - that's why the "10%-15%" divergence over some 60 years, sounds OK to me.

If you looked at a weather system of HIGH and LOW pressures, and fronts, you would see isobaric "circles" that delineate common weather areas. Correlate these fields, as local "areas" or "eras" of time. Again the differences regarding how fast time "moves" in these "circles", would be slight and perhaps unnoticeable. They would be enough, though, to provide "circles of common interaction" and (significantly, I believe), would also provide some sort of common playing field or "fabric" - for all the individuals within that area. Moving into other regions or circles, would be fluid transistions (as opposed to "either/or" transistions). I believe such a move would also precipitate new experiences. You might then have to deal with, what Terrence McKenna termed "DEGREES OF NOVELTY AND HABIT". Moving into other "topographical areas", you would also have to "shift gears" ... your "sense of timing" would be a bit off, until you either found some groove of activity that you could fall into, or until you could create new ways of "being" and acting, to handle the new circumstances. The effects of novelty could be noticed in little things like misteps and mistakes, or unintended synchronicities that might seem to alter your path. The effects of falling into normal routines would soon cause your new environment to loose its "newness".

Similarly, a geo-topological map (rings of altitudes) works the same in depicting (minor) GRAVITATIONAL fields. Again, I would think the degrees in gravitational differences, would be unnoticeably present, though present non-the-less.

Within these geographical "circles" of time, and gravitational pulls, people work out certain local and global destinies and intentions. These then cumulate into cultural topologies.

Given this model, the "degrees of separation" can only have extended effects depending on the interactivities of field compontents (you and me, or even other living things). John's interactions on these boards probably have little effect on what's going on in a small school room in the Ukraine, or a in hospital grieving area outside of Tokyo, at this very moment. They might have more of an effect on how you handle you're work day after spending a morning reading posts, though. They might even have an effect on how a co-worker or fellow commuter handles their evening after they've been around you.

Discussions regarding such potential realities do seem to be a good way to get people to think - Its about time, after all <g>.

Posted by Lee Heggy on 02-15-2001 08:31 AM

It's very possible to calculate such coordinates but you have to have a reference point to start from that is static in relation to the motion of the solar system and the rest of the universe. We know what direction we are moving in. You merely have to plot the points along that linear track. You would also want to be very careful and exact or you would end up inside of a cow or worse.

Posted by Rick Donaldson on 02-15-2001 08:31 AM

Actually, Ryan, that isn't true.

I can, given the right software not only calculate the specific location of the earth 30 years ago, where it will be thirty years hence.

Based on the presumption that the sun is sitting still you can calculate the precise location of the earth at any time.

Given that the above is not true - that is the sun is traveling through space at several thousand miles per second, as well, as the planets moving about it, and the entire arm of the galaxy in which we reside is moving as well... it is more difficult, BUT not impossible.

As Captain Kirk once said to his crew after the battle with Khan, "he is thinking in two dimensions only"... we are thinking in three only. The fourth, time, is traveling away from us as precisely the same rate as it was a few moments ago. Given this we can calcuate the exact location based on several factors, knowing the current location of the sun, the past location of the sun and then figuring the future location of the sun.

Given this, we know that our Eart travels in an ellipse around the sun at a given speed over 365.25 days per year. That tells us the Earth will be in a specific location 30 years from now.

Personally, I've taken tracking programs meant for satellites and calulated the projected location of Near Earth Asteroids several times. If *I* can do it, certainly an advanced computer from the future can figure out where we are now.

Rick

Posted by Mel Reckling on 02-15-2001 10:05 AM

John,

How would someone that came here with no money all of the sudden have plenty of money now? You could have brought the lowest denomination coin of your time with a mint mark anywhere after 2001 and probably convinced almost all of us. At least some people. It would be hard to fake.

Posted by Simon Wiggins on 02-15-2001 10:35 AM

Cool

(1) Simply inscribe your knowledge of any large scale events (disasters, discoveries, etc etc) over the next six months (there should be at least one memorable example) into a text file.

(2) Encrypt said text file.

(3) Give text file to a custodian. I sure Art Bell would volunteer, he's very interested in time travel.

(4) In six months time give Art the encryption key and he can reveal what you said.

Easy !

It doesn't affect any timelines for that covered six months.
Art can't peek, even if he wants to, which he probably would.

Thanks,
Simon.

Posted by Matt Hagemeier on 02-15-2001 10:41 AM

Does anybody here remember Marc Wade from the old BBS board. He was the first time travler, if I remember right, he talked of a future solcialistic, self supporting society as well, a ww3, millions die, and so on, but I can't remember what time he said he was from.

Posted by Craig Cuthbert on 02-15-2001 11:12 AM

I also remember "The Sun Is Not Real" in which a poster had me in stitches with his theory that the present sun was switched to a holographic representation, in the late 70's? early 80's.

Posted by Randy Empey on 02-15-2001 11:40 AM

Mr. Murphy ---

If you are standing still on the surface of the earth, does the earth move away from you as the years progress?

It is not neccesary to calculate and then adjust for the exact location of the earth realitive to some static frame of reference like the center of the galaxy or some magic 'origin' point. Everything is relative. A TT blessed with a TT-device capable of traveling through time while standing still relative to the earth wouldn't have to worry much about where the earth would be 30 years into the future -- because he and his device are already moving in such a way that he will be in the same place 30 years down the time axis.

Of course this is assuming that einstien's physics was at least accurate enough for such purposes. That is yet to be proven, but it has held strong for more than half a
century, as a general case.

But the reality that makes his theory seem to work makes you argument next to moot.

John T. ---

Are we having fun yet?

How 'bout some philosophy.

What is your conception of the nature of reality?

Is it subjective or objective?

Is there one grand reality, or is it 'to each his own'?

Do you think there are any absolutes? If so, in which contexts?

Things of that nature . . . has our understanding (on the level of society you fit into) changed in these respects?

Does sin exist?

What happens when you die?

Etcetera Etcetera Etcetera . . .

--- Randy E.

P.S. -- Personally, I don't understand why it is so important to the people who post here that they believe you . . . communications, such that they are, make perfect understanding between individuals dicey at best . . . how can I be sure that something that is in my 'reality' is in yours? How can anybody be sure of anything? Keep thinking . . . and perhaps, share your thoughts with those here which read first and write later.

Posted by Ernie Vega on 02-15-2001 11:45 AM

Smile

Hi all:
I've read Rick's note and thank him for it. I have no animosity towards Rick or anyone else. At the risk of being corrected I believe Rick and I have worked out our difference of opinion. At least to my satisfaction.

bye for now

Posted by John Titor on 02-15-2001 12:07 PM

My Motive:

Ive been in your time a bit longer than I had expected. My next opportunity to go home comes in the spring. For most of my adult life, I have read about, wondered and debated about this time. I value this opportunity to share experiences. If you absolutely believed I was a time traveler, with no skepticism whatsoever, then we would be unable to communicate. The focus of our attention would then always be on the machine. The experiences, opinions and reasons you do things are just as valid as mine and just as different. I hope to return home with a better understanding of why you think and believe the way you do. Although I do understand the reasons for asking, I wont gain from any communication with you by spouting physics formulas and pop culture predictions. Please do not assume I am purposely avoiding questions. I am human, I get tired, and I forget things. Please, just remind me if I missed a question and I will get to it.

I do have one tip though. If you want me to go over your post in detail put, Hey John, youre a big Jerk. at the end of the insightful and logical part, not the beginning. In fact, maybe you could just abbreviate it and put a number rating from 1-100 next to it so I know how strong you feel. Something like, HJYABJ (78). It would save space.

The Physics of Time Travel:

ACCELERATION = TIME DIALATION
As pointed out earlier, acceleration will produce time dilation. This can be observed by the twins paradox. As one twin stays on Earth, the other twin in his accelerating spaceship experiences a slower passing of time. When he returns to Earth, he is noticeably younger than his twin who aged normally in Earth time. This type of time travel (should have been proven already on this worldline) with atomic clock experiments. With sufficient power, this type of time travel will only provide practical displacement in a future direction. This type of time travel is also isolated to a single worldline. You will not meet yourself.

GRAVITY = ACCELERATION
As Einstein pointed out with his STR, the effects of gravity and acceleration are the same. Therefore, you will experience the same time travel effects in the twin paradox by being close to a large gravity source. In the atomic clock experiments mentioned above, the reason there was a difference in time was not because the clock in the plane was moving, it was because the clock in the well was closer to the center of the Earth. Constant speed is not acceleration.

LARGE GRAVITY = STATIC BLACK HOLE
The next step is to find a large gravity source to use in your time machine. Static black holes provide this type of power. As one twin approaches the event horizon or edge of the black hole, the other twin will watch him as he appears to slow down. He will notice his twins watch run slower until it stops at the event horizon. The twin moving toward the horizon will notice none of this and see his watch running just fine. Although possible, a trip into a static black hole will not take you to another worldline and its one-way. The force of gravity will crush you.

ROTATING BLACK HOLE = DONUT-SHAPED SINGULARITY
Fortunately, most black holes are not static. They spin. Spinning black holes are often referred to as Kerr black holes. A Kerr black hole has two interesting properties. One, they have two event horizons and two, the singularity is not a point, it looks more like a donut. These odd properties also have a pronounced affect on the black holes gravity. There are vectors where you can approach the singularity without being crushed by gravity. (For those interested in seeing a graphic of a photon trip through a Kerr black hole, try here)
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DONUT-SHAPED SINGULARITY = PASSAGE INTO ALTERNATE WORLDLINE
Another other more interesting result of passing through a donut singularity is that you travel through time by passing into another universe or worldline. Please see Penrose diagrams for Kerr Black holes or you can examine the calculations of Frank Tipler.

So now the problem becomes.where do we find a donut-shaped singularity?

A PONDERING HAWKING = MICROSINGULARITY
Steven Hawking proposed the existence of microsingularities that were created in the big bang. They were probably about the size of a proton and disappeared over the years due to an effect of radiation evaporation. (Yes, black holes do emit energy.)

HIGH ENERGY PHYSICS = ARTIFICIAL MICROSINGULARITY
When I first started posting online a few months ago, I said that major breakthroughs in particle physics were around your corner. Soon, CERN will bring their big machine on line and they will be smashing very fast and high-energy particles together. One of the more odd and potentially dangerous items produced from this incease in energy will be microsingularities a fraction of the size of an electron. (for those who would like to follow the developments at CERN)
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ARTIFICIAL MICROSINGULARITY = LOCALIZED KERR FIELD
Through trial and error, and although they are quite heavy, hot and capable of putting out a great deal of energy (300 - 500 megawatts), it's discovered that these microsingularities can be electrified and captured. It is also interesting to note at this point that electrified singularities also have two event horizons. By spinning these various microsingularities, a localized Kerr field is created.

LOCALIZED KERR FIELD = TIPLER SINUSOID
By using two microsingularites in close proximity to each other, it is possible to create, manipulate and alter the Kerr fields to create a Tipler gravity sinusoid. This field can be adjusted, rotated and moved in order to simulate the movement of mass through a donut-shaped singularity and into an alternate world line. Thus, safe time travel.

I will continue with the individual posts next. Thank you for your patience.

Posted by Ernie Vega on 02-15-2001 12:42 PM

Question

Hi John:
Is this what I think it is?

ARTIFICIAL MICROSINGULARITY = LOCALIZED KERR FIELD
Through trial and error, and although they are quite heavy, hot and capable of putting out a great deal of energy (300 - 500 megawatts), it's discovered that these microsingularities can be electrified and captured. It is also interesting to note at this point that electrified singularities also have two event horizons. By spinning these various microsingularities, a localized Kerr field is created.

It looks like a prediction. Is it.

Best regards,
Ernie

Posted by Blonnie Dowden on 02-15-2001 01:04 PM

i would first like to state that i for one have never said you're an idiot - i said you are aggravating. which is not really a personal problem w/yourself it is just how i perceive you to be. an adjective - not a noun.

this sentence bothers me:
"Although I do understand the reasons for asking, I wont gain from any communication with you by spouting physics formulas and pop culture predictions."

so that's what this is all about? you come here & want us to "help" you by asking questions.. so you can figure out how -we- percieve things & why we think the way we do but you do not recipricate the efforts. you only discuss things that you care about or that -you- think are important or that -you- think you will "gain" something from. seems rather -one-sided- to me.

you say:
"The experiences, opinions and reasons you do things are just as valid as mine and just as different. I hope to return home with a better understanding of why you think and believe the way you do. "

so you return home w/a better understanding while we're left here w/the same questions we had before? it doesn't seem very beneficial to -us-..just to -you- (atleast from your statements).

-blonnie-

Posted by Craig Cuthbert on 02-15-2001 04:13 PM

If all the idealists who have traveled the path of confronting sceptics, were laid end to end ... ?they'd be better off that way?

Where are we in the universe BTW, irrespective of our relation to surrounding physical masses.

The galaxy, and us with it, is traveling at ~ 390 km/sec. The Local Group, superclusters ... and on out... how fast are they traveling? With respect to what? Last time I looked at the moon there were no strings attached either. It just sort of sits out there and whirs around, kinda like we do... or at least as I do. Pretty trick, if'n anyone's asking.

John - Ever have any oldsters (60-80 year olds) come up to you and mention past correspondences?

Take Care All!

Posted by John Titor on 02-15-2001 05:06 PM

The following are personal rules I try to keep(unless of course they conflict with my secret agenda). I look forward to discussing any discrepancies you may find.

PERSONAL RULES FOR TEMPORAL DISCLOSURE:

(1). I will not disclose any information that will cause someone to personally gain by its knowledge.

(2). I will not disclose any detailed information that would allow someone to avoid death by probability.

(3). I will not disclose any information that may compromise any future actions by individual people or threaten their family and well-being.

BLONNIE:
Thank you for your persistence and patience. It would appear some of my more sarcastic comments are directed at you. They are not and I apologize.

((so i am asking questions that can NOT be changed. someone can not change the fact that "Girly G. Hottie" is the next big name in showbusiness))

Rule 3 Your future is not unchangeable? Why couldnt harm may come to a person if I define them as someone who will do something in the future? However, in this case, I just dont know. I am not familiar with pop culture in 2001.

(("keep an eye out for so-and-so..they will rise to fame." or something like that. we couldn't -change- that..))

I find this an interesting point youve made again. Why do you feel that would be unchangeable?

CRAIG:

((Are you being obtuse about Bonnie's inquiries for more personal reasons? Her logic is pretty sound, and you're avoiding discussing some of the things that people naturally find curious about other cultures...))

I very much want to discuss our cultures but please help me understand how you wont be able to change something I tell you happened on my worldine.

((What kind of music is popular, what kind of recreation is enjoyable, what holidays are important...))

Im not sure if you wanted to discuss these or not. If yes, I will be happy to do that.

((Do you feel some pleasure in breathing clean air and not having to check a geiger counter every few miles?))

Yes I do. However there is a fear about being here that I can only define as uncertainty. When I walk around in 2001, the air smells clean but I wonder if it really is. In 2036, there is no gray. The air is either clean or it will kill you. That feeling is very overwhelming when I eat here.

((Are there people in this time period who are hip (aware) of Time Travelers and who accept you as one?))

I have a very few precious relationships with people online who accept me as real or crazy and dont ask any questions. Much of my email flows through them. My parents are the only ones that have access to everything I could use to prove who I am.

((I would imagine there are folk in our time, who travel in different circles (out of the mainstream), who have some money and/or some power, and who know things that the rest of us do not. Are you, or others, in touch with people like that? How ARE you financing things?))

I have taken very clever and reliable measures to go undetected. Yes, there are probably people like that but I am not in active conversation with them. My expenses are not that large. I spend a great deal of time now archiving.

JEFFERY:

((I spotted few typing errors in Johns comments so I will assume that he has had an average education by our standards))

You must be energized and anxious to improve your education system then. Please tell me what you plan to do.

((1. Name the immediate political succeosor's to George Bush and Tony Blair.)) RULE 3

((2. Name any human being/animal/invention which became famous from obscurity prior to today (This is really easy, just name anyone who shot to fame for anything - provided they are completely unknown now, and that it happens soon).) RULE 2, RULE 3

((3. Name any near future shock event that makes history - political assasinations, inventions, marriages etc, same rules - it should happen soon with nobody having a clue it was about to happen (exept maybe time-travellers).)

You mean other than the mad cow pandemic, the breakthroughs in high-energy physics and the unknown functions of the 5100? I realize Ive only been on this board for a few weeks but I assume youve read the other postings Ive made about these issues months ago in order to be so definitive.

((4. If you are older than 36 then there should be 2 of you here right now. You would both possess the same basic fingerprints and DNA. If you really want to prove your case then meet up with your younger self and get some police evidence.))

I am with my younger self. I dont have a case to prove and I wonder how many needles I would be on the receiving end for that one. With your superior education, I assume you already figured out that pretty soon someone might try that with a clone. Be careful what you take for definitive proof.

ANGEL:

If he had a time traveler line open would you call in?

((How long will you be here in 2001? When are you going back?))

My first opportunity to go home is this spring.

((What all are you taking back with you?))

A lot of hard drives filled with books, archived web sites, pictures and audio files. Im also taking back family items that were lost in the war.

((Is propane still around in the future?))

Yes but not very much of it comes from natural gas. Hydrogen is converted into propane because its easier to handle.

ROY:

((I would hope that the paradise I live in would somehow be spared (the Hawaiian Islands) but I suspect it would not be spared as a strategic target for obvious reasons))

My parents went to Hawaii on their Honeymoon. My dad told me a quick story about going to a fast food store and paying 6 or 7 dollars for a hamburger. I got an image in my head of a huge tanker filled with frozen hamburgers headed into the Pacific. Hawaii is very dependant on the mainland for food.isnt it?

Thank you for your kind words.

MIKE:

((Logically though the revelation of his TT ability still makes no sense, as he could easily question people of this time and get all sorts of info without revealing himself.))

Medium like the internet offer unique opportunities for communication. When I return, I will be debriefed on my opinions about how people in 2001 will accept time travelers.

((So that leads to the question why would he reveal himself if he has no stated aganda for doing so?))

Im not sure I exactly said that.

((2. John came here to give somebody a "Back to the Future" type of push so as to invent the Time Machine. (My opinion on this is that no one needs to "invent" the TM because if is has been built in the future then it has always been invented, and we are merely waiting for someone to "discover" it. Just look back at most of the major advancements in science, almost every invention of science already existed, it only needed people to put it together.
About the only things humans have invented deal in the arts. Music etc. This opinion comes from the "all times exist at once" theory.))

I find this one the most interesting. What do you think would happen if the United States, China or Russia suddenly developed a time machine and the rest of the world found out about it?

MY FRIEND JAVIER:

((he does a maneuver that focuses the question back to the receiver, as to have him think it's been answered, and to shut him up. (Which in fact, he just avoided answering it, by doing what he did). He does this very often, and I'd just wanted to point that out before he did it again.))

Hmmm.I am forced to admit I must rethink what I know about Mobius loops.

ANDREW:

((1) Does the last name hubbard have any historical(is that the right term?) relevance?))

You may leave a message to yourself if you wish.

((2) What happens with Australia? does it play a major part in the war?))

I believed I wrote about Australia a bit earlier.

((3) What colloquial language is used in the future?))

Many people use the internet for communication and entertainment. I would say that affects our speech. We type very fast.

((4) What exactly happens to the water? does it get poisoned from radiation?))

Yes, radiation affected the water but that can always be distilled out. There are biological hazards that cannot. In addition, fresh water is hard to come by without talking to someone with a gun first.

((5) Have you actually met your parents? if so, what are their thoughts on you? ))

Yes. I am with them now. I would say its a combination of fear and relief.

((6) Does time have ends?))

Yes. It is believed that all worldlines end. It is also thought that parallel worldlines that appear to be the same end at different times.

((7) Lets just say that people from the future are manipulating events now, such as preventing a tragedy, making it never occur. If it never occurred, no body would be sent back to stop it, which would mean that the event does take place. This would lead to the prevention of it happening again, and so on. What would happen in one of these situations?))

Based on my understanding of time, manipulation of your worldline by future time travelers would have no affect on their original or home worldline. If that is happening, it must be for a desired outcome or result on your worldline only. If UFOs are time travelers, they plan on reaping what they sew from you not their home.

RYAN

((John, if you really did travel through time you'd be dead. You have to take into account that the universe is expanding, the Earth, the solar system and the galaxy are all moving. If you truely did travel back through time, you'd materialize in 1970 where the Earth WILL be in 2036, which is the vacuum of space.))

This is an excellent point and one I thought I went over a bit earlier. There is a gravity lock system that compensates for the local gravity outside of the Tipler sinusoid. This is the reason the unit is only accurate to about 60 years.

RICK:

((Specifically, you stated my questions were "rather specific" and you'd be "love to discuss physics and happy to walk through the operation (I assume of the machine)". A few lines later you state (after me saying you should know a hell of a lot more about the machines you're operating) that you do know much about it, but you're not willing to share it with everyone. So... which is it? Are you willing to share information on the operation, a walkthrough of the machine, time travel... or AREN'T YOU?))

I suppose I am thinking about the physics and the engineering as separate subjects. I apologize for the confusion and I will be happy to answer your questions more directly.

((I asked legitimate questions. They were ignored, then later, when I asked others, they were skirted.))

Perhaps we could just start over again?

ANDREW:

((1) What role does Australia play in the war? You stated elsewhere that they repulse a Chinese invasion - Does this mean Australian government side with your enemy? (As I think I recall you stating that they allied with your side + Russia... Could be wrong though.))

There were deep divisions in Australia also. I would associate it more with a powder keg than a civil war.

((2) Does intercontinental transportation still exist? If so, have you visited other countries?))

Yes, but the market is much smaller. No, I have not been overseas.

Page 12 on coming

Posted by Javier Cortez on 02-15-2001 07:53 PM

Wink

John,

What state do you live in now in 2001?

Is John Titor your real name?

What do you look like? Post a picture of your self.

What is your secret agenda?

Is this dialogue between people in these posts part of your secret agenda?

Does your younger self realize what you are?

Are you married?

What rank were you in the Army?

Where did you go to BCT?

What company were you with, and what year did you graduate from BCT?

You have any fears? If so, what are they?

What are the rules for fraternizing with people who arent from your time; do you make friends easily here in 2001?

What would the DOD do to you if they found you out?

What would you do if someone attempted to investigate you? Hundreds of people go through these forums a day Im sure. Some of which can be government. Arent you at all worried that its only a matter of time before you are found out?

And you said; "I very much want to discuss our cultures but please help me understand how you wont be able to change something I tell you happened on my worldine."

Can you elaborate further on the matter?

I appreciate you answering these questions for me John, and thank you for calling me your friend .

-Javier C.

HJYABJ 100

Posted by Rick Donaldson on 02-16-2001 08:00 AM

John,

I want you to understand something - since you're using our discussions to make a determination of our thinking for when you go back. Understand that I don't think you're a jerk, but I believe you to be a "false time traveler" at this point. HOWEVER, I will say that you took the time to post some information that DOES answer some of my questions. Your disertation on physics (at least in a small way) confirms a few things that I think are relatively accurate.

Are the pictures (at the URL I posted a couple days ago) YOUR pictures of your time machine? ( [ Register or Signin to view external links. ] )

I'm going to help John answer a question that someone else asked. "What would the DOD do to you if they found you out?"

John would be grabbed by government federal agents and held incognito until a determination could be made based on national security. He certainly would be at risk of his life in "all probability" because he IS (will be/was - put in any decriptors based on tense you wish) a threat to national security in "our time".

Here is why. John claims to come from a different time, our future time actually. Even though it is perhaps a different time thread, or time line, he could affect the outcome of our own future either through active participation or negligent participation. In other words, Johns actions could conceivable make a difference what happens. This is the main reason he is following some very specific "non interference" doctrine.

The very fact that John has made himself "visible" to the users here makes him a target. Believe it or not - *I* work for the government. I work in an area that, while my particular job has nothing to do with this, am extremely interested in his statements. Yes - we in the government DO watch for things like this. However, rest assured, if I went to the security office and said "I have access to a time traveler" I'd get laughed at. I'd have to get in touch with the "right people" to "report" the incident, and even then the skeptics would over rule the "believers".

What this means is, even though John could be consider a national security threat, he certainly is safer than even me, who works daily in government facilities.

Now that I have admitted my "government participation" let me tell you MY motive. Time travel. Afew days ago, someone sent me a copy of a time travel ad. I was intrigued by this. The ad, mysteriously appeared on Art Bells site last night. (Go there and look at it - you will see precisely what I saw). I have drafted a letter indicating I'm interested. Yes, I have my own weapons (and a family, grandkids and kids ) but... if I had a chance to go back in time, I would take it. Assuming I could get back. haha.

My problem is that I would "interact" I believe. I would find the idea of interaction almost irresistable, which I would assume is one of the things psychologists would have a problem with time travelers in any case.

The US government... Russian or any other, would be in the same boat. They would, if they could believe it, GRAB and hold time travelers - checking the veracity of their stories and preventing them from having any interaction with anyone.

Sound about right John?

I have a distinct feeling that I want to "believe" that John is truly a time traveler. The reason is simple and probably selfish. I have always said I want to live to see the ripe old age of 200. I MIGHT make it to 150 given todays medical advancements. If so, I have around 107 years to go. I can't wait to see what the future holds.

I want to LIVE time though, I don't want to go to the future and not be able to get back to my family and friends. I want to see that something so fantastic and so outlandish that it is science fiction right now, come true.

Those are MY motives for being here, chatting about this.

Granted, there are deeper, more scientific discussions on other boards and elsewhere in the scientific community, but they are "deeper" than I wish to delve. John has given me at least that tiny hope that somewhere out there, on some time line, someone will indeed do what we've been believing all along.

So - John, my comments about being fraudulent - please don't take them seriously and please do not think I have anything against you personally, nor wish to discredit you. I only want the honest truth.

If you tomorrow, said, Rick, this was an experiment in psychology, writing, or fantasy - whatever, I would not be surprised. If I had a way to prove you were truly a time traveler - that secret would be safe with me (as would anything else you told me). See, I believe in America, and I believe in Freedom.

I believe if you're really what you say you are - then you're a hope for the future. Even if there is 'civil war' or nuclear war - people like myself are already prepared for those things.

Whatever comes of this... best of luck in either your studies in psychology, time travel or writing. I'll be listening in (and commenting) from time to time.

Rick

Posted by Ernie Vega on 02-16-2001 10:26 AM

Thumbs up

Hi Rick, John, all:

I also found John's post regading the specifics to be beyond much contention. My scale is tipping toward belief.

I'll say this much. The descriptions John provided are much more convincing than his ability to write a given equation. I think I understand why Rick was impressed as I know a bit more about Rick today than I did 2 days ago I mean his technical background.

Here is my opinion.

John thus far has demontrated the following:

Ability to discuss physics that seems to rise (eventually) to the level of the question posed.

High degree of intelligence.

Has not wavered in his ethical assertions regarding (verifyable) disclosure of future events.

No interest in making money for this (so far)

Continuity of statements (not 100%, but he's human)

Accurate cultural behaviour for a person from the world he claims to come from.

Has "I believe" made more than 1 verifyable prediction. (I think) correct me if I misunderstood his post.

Patience

A degree of loyalty to his country, and for democracy not found every day. He has read the Constitution and understood it. IMHO

Hinted that he may have had something to do with recent events that did not come to pass.

An accurate depiction of the climate that would escalate to the wars and events he describes.

Made statements that contradict many other Time Traveller's
Statements.

Has attempted to answer most of what is asked of him.

The ability to accurately relate a story as if he had been there.

A great deal of self control when "questioned".
(for you Rick

In general has been a very good thread host.

None of this proves he's a time traveller, but it does prove to me that I should continue to read the posts, and ask further question.

As someone recently mentioned a preponderance of circumstantial evidence builds credibility.

I have a question for John:

John, what would it take to get you to stick around after spring and leave during the next window of opportunity?

I fear that another month or 2 may not be enough time to get as much said and discussed as I would like to have.

Regarding the photos. I have asked 6 friends that have been in the military and "whatever" the device is in the photo looks very authentic. The manual also is what you would expect from the military. The revisions on the cover page look normal for such a manual. Maybe Rick can take a close look at the photos. Has anyone done any imaging on the photos to make the individual controls on the "machine" more visible.

In your "world time" have things like "Saquatch" , "Loch Ness monster", and other reported unusual animals been seen, or captured or explained away.

Is remote viewing used to gather military intelligence?

Are psychics still common? are they used by the government?

Is there a Police Dept as we know it. Have any of your top leaders or politicians been jailed or impeached?

John, any chance of getting a better set of photos with more of the manual?.

John please respond to my question as to "the prediction" did I jump the Gun? (get ahead of myself).

One final question? Is there a Global Superpower state and what nation is it.

Best regards,
Ernie

Posted by Craig Cuthbert on 02-16-2001 10:48 AM

I think I understand. I guess you are held accountable, in some way, for changes that occur in your time period. You would know, and I guess no one else has to. Let me see if I get this. You tell me about a new cultural fad - for instance, let's say Czech Dance Wear, becomes chic. I keep my eye on trends, and invest, in a way that benefits me, at the exclusion of someone else. OR I open a shop that begins the trend and then trend burns out sooner than it otherwise would. Then you, on your time-line, notice, when you get back, that the weekly dance at the local Youth Hall is no longer centered around Czech Bouncing, for the summer of '36. Instead, for some quirky reason, Cowboy Line Dancing appeals to everyone for a few weeks or months during this period. Otherwise everything else remains relatively unchanged.

Please answer this question to the best of your ability to assist us. I'm a big believer in grassroots resourcefulness, and its power in creating discerning situations that test people's willingness and ability to make their own way.

It seems to me that with the cities under such stresses, people would flock in large numbers to remote areas like Winnipeg (sorry guys) or some other region with plenty of clean water, air and soil. Why is this such a nelected fix? I would also imagine that the network of Intentional Communities (communes?) that took root over the years, would provide infrastructural support to a nation needing to find its "FOXFIRE" roots.

If I was transposed to the 1920's or 30's, you would have a hard time keeping me off the streets, out of public places, shops, concert halls, etc. just trying to take it all in. Ditto with just about any other time and place.

Which reminds me of an old story about the TT who saw a sign outside a restaurant that said "Breakfast served any time". He eventually settled on eggs benedict during the Renaissance.

Posted by Rick Donaldson on 02-16-2001 11:35 AM

It is interesting to note that the photos posted on that other site were posted by an "anonomyous time traveler" some time back. It fits the exact description John has give us of his machine. Therefore, based on his discription alone, I would say he is the one that posted the pictures. If he didn't post them, then he is using them for the basis of his story.

Regardless of the two supositions above, the device appears to be "authentic" to me. I have some experts looking at the manual and the pictures as well - for obvious reasons, I won't tell you who because they aren't aware of this discussion and I don't intend to tell them about it.

I am extremely familiar with military spec equipment in many forms, more specifically communications systems of various types. I have never seen this particular item (in my time... ) nor anything vaguely resembling it. HOWEVER, it does have the look and feel of a piece of gear produced by a large corporation for the military.

John - in looking closely at this device, I see there is a hand control unit - with some sort of screen on it. I assume this is the computer interface through which the device is programmed (or time settings are made). Is that an accurate assumption? What does the display show you (for instance, does it simply show things like time/date calculations, or radiation [probably wrong word] of the fields from the device?)

Also, there are 16 apparent buttons. I have to assume further that these are multifunction keys (that is you press one for an alt/control function and other buttons have names or labels and perhaps even numerical meanings). Is that also accurate?

thanks

Posted by Doug Beauchamp on 02-16-2001 05:38 PM

At the very begginning of this thread, I was very skeptical. Who wouldn't be on a topic like this? However, I find myself believing it even more with each page. What I find strange is why so many people don't believe. I think we've established that a majority of us do believe time travel a possibility. Most of us also believe that the human race does indeed learn how to travel to time sometime in the future. If we believe this, then why do we find it so hard to believe that there are people from the future among us? If John is not a time traveler, then he's a **** good lier. There are minor flaws in his stories, but I think there are more strengths than flaws. Maybe I just believe his story because I want to (selective belief).

As for the issue of security, I think Rick covered it all. I don't think the government would be as open-minded to this topic as some of us. Unless John proved he was a time traveler, I don't think anyone will be using his IP to track him. Which is a reason I don't think John can be proving to us that he is indeed a TT. (Maybe that's one of the lessons in TT training.) Unless there is a branch of the FBI similar to the X-Files, I doubt anyone will be knocking on Johns door anytime soon.

Posted by Javier Cortez on 02-16-2001 08:48 PM

So John, when do you plan on answering my questions?

Is there a problem in answering?

Please let me know.... I await you.

-Javier C.
Sysop: We do not provide links to other boards, Sorry. Peace, Mary

[Edited by Mary Rowland on 02-16-2001 at 09:19 PM]
Posted by Tim Utterback on 02-16-2001 10:17 PM

Wink

Hey John. If you can't dazzle them with brilliance. Then baffle them with BS!!!

Posted by Javier Cortez on 02-17-2001 12:10 AM

Man, that's the second time someones edited out my posts. But that's not important, what is, is your answers John.

I'm still waiting. So far it's been 48 hours. What's wrong? Are you unable to answer?

Posted by Roy Meserve on 02-17-2001 11:13 AM

Hello,

Thanks for your reply. Yes, unfortunately Hawai'i is quite
tied to the fate of the mainland US in major ways. Efforts
at some amicable sovereignty are halting or stillborn.
Just wanted to recommend a book I think might tell you volumes about present macro socio-economic conditions that
lay the foundation for the evolving political divisions you
state lead to a civil war in the US in the near future.
The book is "When Corporations Rule the World" by John C. Korten.
While certainly not the only important work or view of this
present paradigm, behind the 'sturm und drang' of partisan
noise and distraction, this well-written and researched book
by a dedicated veteran of more than 30 years abroad in var-
ious aid and developmental programs aimed at Third world areas, squarely focuses on the escalating comglomeration of
power and money increasingly in the hands of the few and the
resulting loss of control over individual and community autonomy. Now, in the twilight of the 21st century, this locus of capital, political influence and media control is taking on a life of its own, out of the control of even those at the top of the command heirarchy, with concommitant
social decline, rampant environmental degradation, and of course the threat of war as a means both of deflection of attention on the real problem, and further dividing and conquering to consolidate ever more power. No black hats and white hats, per se, but more the result of unthinking accep-
tance of a certain economic model at the root.
This is why I feel there is a kind of inevitability to some
sort of wrenching change, whether or not it follows 'your'
probable outcome. Another older book by a similar 'dissoc-
iated' entity that might interest you is "The Nature of Per-
sonal Reality" by Jane Roberts (circa 1979-80). From a ghost
no less! Both can be found at the public library, but are worth perusal. Submitted humbly in the spirit of apocalypse
or (Greek)- 'unveiling'....

regards,

Roy

Posted by Andrew Hubbard on 02-17-2001 08:40 PM

1) would you be able to internationally travel by:
travelling to the year 2001, fly a plane to the desired destination, and then go to the future from there?

2)If each world line is seperate from the others, then wouldn't the consequences of your actions now have no effect on your original worldline? If this is the case, why won't you tell us things that will give us knowledge or let us avoid death? My only geuss is that you are not a time traveller, and don't want to say anything that could make a gullable person do something stupid.

3) how can I leave a message for myself in the future if the things i do in this worldline do not effect the others?

Posted by Michael E. Hendrickson on 02-18-2001 08:03 AM

The falsity of your claims is revealed in your predicted scenario for our country in the years 2004-2012,i.e., a virtual collapse of our constitutional system into a waring
divide between the cities and the countrysides, with a farmer general leading the latter to victory in 2012, presumably, after a horrendous, internecine struggle. I believe in fact this describes a plot in one or more
science fiction novels written in the past 50 years.
This scenario could plausibly describe events which, perhaps,
might occur 100 years from now, or even much further in
the future, but most certainly not commencing a mere
three years from now. A breakdown of this magnitude would've
had to have been preceded by many more fracturing events other than Ruby Ridge, Waco,the Oaklahoma bombing,etc., over a much longer period of time in order to culminate in your predicted scenario.
Given what we know about our society today with its
very stable system of government(however else you may
wish to describe it), your prediction of its pending
disintegration, beginning in three short years, is utterly improbable, if not impossible. Hmm., I'm, trying to
think, was it Asimov or Kurt Vonnegut Jr. who originally authored this scenario? MH
P.S. The idea of a farmer general leaving his fields to
lead his country's troops to victory is an old one going
back, at least, to Roman times. Lucius Quintus Cincinnatus,
I believe, was the gentleman's name, from the 5th Century B.C. Roman Republic.

[Edited by Michael E. Hendrickson on 02-18-2001 at 08:28 AM]
Posted by Ernie Vega on 02-18-2001 11:06 AM

The recent film "Gladiator" featured Maximus a farmer general who defeated a "fictionalized" Commodus.

I guess if you asked Joseph Campbell there are only a few stories and all literature is the re-telling of the same few stories in different settings.

Boy saves girl
Boy saves the nation
Girl dies boy avenges
Boy gets girl usually another boy loses girl.
Underdog defeats the champ. David and Goliath, farmer general
Good boy goes bad
bad boy goes good
and a few more.
there are a few that's all then we just enhance the content to fit our cultural needs.

Peace

Posted by Randy Empey on 02-18-2001 11:36 AM

Mr. Vega and Mr. Hendrickson:

The wonderful ability for the human mind to group things by simularities, generalize, and vaguely remember stories heard in the past exists.

But it is not conclusive proof of the falsity of anybodies claims.

I, as an attempted-authorer (pretty simular to being an attempted-murderer), have ran into the 'universal hero myth' dillema face to face, in mental combat to the death . . . and have yet to arrise victorious . . . but it does not mean I have no good stories to tell, nor that they are unoriginal. And it certainly doesn't mean that any story I may come up with is most definetly not true . . .

I am fairly certain that proving anything is impossible. (By this I mean proving ABSOLUTELY . . . within certain frameworks, like mathematics, things can be proven . . . but in general? I think not. In what we call 'reality'? I also think not. Life would be too simple.)

If this is true, and I think it is, it also follows that it is impossilbe to disprove anything -- although the two are often different problems.

So the ongoing 'discussion' about the veracity of this TT's claims is largely in vain. Good works may yet come from it, but I am sure there are better ways to spend this thread. John has already suggested this, it seems to me, and I believe it is everybody's best interest to recognize that we have never been in the realm of absolutes and that the main goal here is the intelligent exchange of ideas, observations, insights and 'feelings'.

Just because a plot appears often in the worlds portrayed in science fiction doesn't preclude them from being what you seem to consider science fact.

Spacecraft are a prime example of this.

Timecraft ARE ALSO!

The mind is the ultimate vessel for any kind of exploration . . . lets please direct our miranderings a little more effectively even on this micro level, . . . if only to please my aesthetic sense!

I'm sure we will all be a lot happier and the fruits will then be better.

Posted by Ernie Vega on 02-18-2001 02:56 PM

Cool

Hi all:
Randy, although I remain to be convinced as to the nature of John or his story. I have never said he was a fake or a fraud, or a liar, actually, I expressed frustration at the seemingly all important "is he or isn't he" debate.

I propose that "what John is" is irrelevant to this conversation. What is relevant is the ideas, and very good technical information being discussed here. I can tell you that I'm sure that some of the posters know more about time travel and it's why's and why nots, than they did prior to coming here.

The real interesting conversation has been about the culture he describes, and the way they approach life.

My comment regarding story lines is accurate. It does not however, detract from any literary work. It also had no connection to John Titor, I was actually disagreeing with the previous poster that stated that the Farmer General metaphor somehow was indicative of deception on Johns part, or a weak link in his story. The Farmer General is nothing new. History is replete with Farmer Generals.

I was pointing out to him the "preponderance" of similarity that exists in the area of "plot development". As an author you must have at times asked yourself if the scene you were creating did not sound too much like "this", or "that".

Anyway, I just wanted to clarify the point.

Oh one more thing.

You say
The mind is the ultimate vessel for any kind of exploration . . . lets please direct our miranderings a little more effectively even on this micro level, . . . if only to please my aesthetic sense!

Please excuse me if I misuderstood but neither I nor anyone else here is going direct their meanderings in any direction to please "your" sense of Aesthetics.
As soon as you become a moderator here you can dictate whatever you want. Remember that whatever you post will most likely get a response.

By the way "effective meandering" is a poor choice of metaphor, you see it's a borderline oximoron.

Peace

[Edited by Ernie Vega on 02-18-2001 at 03:24 PM]
Posted by Javier Cortez on 02-18-2001 11:04 PM

Smile

OK John, I know your playing this Machiavelli role again, of going silent and hiding. But just wanted to let you know, that when you do return, answer my questions first. I asked first. So don't avoid answering my questions. Got that ?

-Javier C.

Posted by Lola Montez on 02-19-2001 12:23 AM

Hello,
To John Titor:
I have found this thread very interesting. How far from what size city is it the safest to be? You suggest bicycle. What about horseback? Should we be stockpiling guns? What kind of people will be the ones least trustworthy? Is the conflict racial in any way? Does the civil war start in such a way that with this foreknowledge those willing will have time to remove themselves to safer locations. Will you readily be able to identify the enemy. Does living near a river with a distillation unit take care of water problems? How are the five people within the 100 miles contacted? Do communications stay intact. I have 86 acres on a river in Central California about 125 miles north of LA. I have geese, turkeys, horses, chickens, milk cows, good pasture, a well run by electricity, and a garden. I also have two teenage sons who are gun nuts. Plenty of rifles, semi-automatic and otherwise. Any comment on our chances or suggestions? My oldest son, 19, is joining the army for 3 years. Will he be asked to kill his countrymen?
I look forward to hearing from you.

Posted by Emmett "Darby" Darbyshire on 02-19-2001 01:22 AM

John,

Sometime earlier you wrote that there are no paradoxes in time tavel. I have a question regarding a paradox that I can't seem to overcome. Maybe you can help.

People who posit theories of time travel generally write in terms of time travel in years. My problem deals with very short trips - the kind that early experimenters would most likely attempt (to avoid divergence problems if nothing else).

In this experiment the traveller only goes 30 seconds into the past to appear in his lab. It seems that 30 seconds before his experiment was to begin he saw himself apppear in the lab. There would now be two travellers and two time machines. It doesn't appear that it ends that simply as the "second" time traveller says that he saw a duplicate self appear in the lab thirty seconds before he started the trip. It would appear that its a time loop and an infinite number of duplicates see a duplicate self appear in the lab thirty seconds prior to the start of the trip.

Your time machine weighs 500 lbs and an average man weighs about 180 lbs. So lets say that that the mass is about 700 lbs per traveller. What is the mass of the duplicates and where did the mass come from? What is the result of the duplicates arriving ~simultaneously at the ~same place and time? How long will it take for the loop to decay? Will it decay? Is it a loop? What happens if the experimenter, upon seeing his duplicate, decides not to continue the experiment?

Posted by Randy Empey on 02-19-2001 07:52 AM

Mr. Vega, I excuse you as you ask. Complete understanding between seperate entities in this world is likely an impossibility. I claim no such moderatorship -- I was just attempting to appeal to everybodies sense of 'proper actions during mutually-benificial social interactions' (I hate it when I can't find the right, single word to say what I want to say . . .) . . . attempting to phrase it in a way that hasn't already been said here . . . obviously, at least in your case, it back fired. I still feel its a good sentiment.

"Effective meandering" appealed to me for exact reason which seems to make you feel it was a poor metaphor. It has the meaning I intend, as I know the language.

---------

John T:

Since you are stockpiling examples of written word from this time, whether to bring back to the future or for sources in your own written endeavours, I suggest you make this a two way street --- you take our words, so lets have some more of yours.

Do you remember any poetry or verse from after 2001 in your past?

Is there an active market on new books in your time, or has that infranstructure not rebuilt it self? Are most the books available old or new?

Out of curiosity, as a rough judge of character, have you read the works of J.R.R. Tolkien? And did you enjoy them.

Actually, this all boils down to the question the last few posters have been getting at --- R U THERE?

All -

Even if John never posts again, this thread would still seem to be useful . . . there is enough conflict here to make it good drama.

I think time-travel is possible . . . others among us think its impossible . . . there are other threads where battles in this war are fought . . . but this particular theatre is far from over.

Posted by John Titor on 02-19-2001 11:03 AM

CHAD:
((1. You have claimed several times that you will not participate in assisting anyone to get out of 'death by probability'. Yet any number of the things that you have said could have already caused an individual to do or not do something that will now result in them either dying, or escaping death an otherwise fated death.))

It would help if you could give an example. If you are referring to the conflict and war in your future, Im not sure Im specific enough to help any individuals avoid anything. Suggesting there is a war coming is a bit different than saying avoid Washington DC at 3:45 AM on March 12, 2015.

((There is no way for you to know if there is no future world leader reading this and believing.))

Are you sure about that? Besides, I think you can have just as much impact as any future leader.

((2. You claim that you have no interest in proving to us that you are a time-traveller. To hear you take such a stance is laughable. Look at what a show you have put on here. Instead you tell us that you only wish us to make us aware of time-travel as a possiblity (see #1 again), or that you only wish to observe us and speak of cultural and religious issues, something interesting to a historian.))

I submit there is no way for me to prove anything on the internet, therefore it makes no sense to desire it. What exactly do you think I could do to prove it to anyone? I am confused by your term the show. Do you feel my only goal here is to entertain?

((You came and posted on this site with one intention that was clear as of your first post: to make us believe that you are a time-traveller. You have continued this thread for that purpose alone, and I find everything you have done supports this.))

Again, I am unable to make you do anything nor would I want that.

((As far as wishing to speak of issues regarding our humanity, or culture, it is quite clear that this is not your intention (contrary to what you insist). If you truly wished to do this your first line would not have been, 'I am a time-traveller'. If you truly wished to do this you would not have continued this thread once you realized that line would not serve your claimed goals.))

I learn a great deal about your culture from the words you write (like right now). What do you think my goals are?

((The entirety of this thread has been: you developing your story.))

Im not sure I understand this. How would my story differ it was developed?

((I find it very difficult to belive that a software tweak (hence 'software engineers', -software-) done to a 1975 machine could cause it to do this translation more effectively or more portably than something around even today.))

Ahhhsomething we have in common. Yes, I felt that way too. However, my job was to go and get it and not debate why they wanted it. I am not a computer expert.

((I find it almost impossible to believe that a tweak done by a 'software engineer' in 1975 could provide for you something that you could find at no other place between now and 'your time', and certainly without having to make a stop-over in our time to get back that far.))

A great deal of the computer infrastructure you depend on is based on very old systems and code. One of the reasons I was sent to 1975 was because of the person I met there, not the technology.

((Furthermore, I find the notion that one of a limited number of time-machines would be used in this manner to be nothing short of nonsensical. There are more effective ways to accomplish what you claim in this regard.))

Perhaps you would share them with me. You might be right and I could make your suggestions when I return.

((4. I have, and continue to believe Dr. Hawking's view in regards to the possibility of time travel if indeed the model of time is what you have suggested, that all possibilities occur in different time-lines, in different universes is the way that time truly is. For this reason alone I cannot accept you. It is entirely logical, and I have seen no good case to counter it.))

Im not sure I understand what you mean. If you believe in Multiple World Theory, Hawking was not the one who first thought of that. If you do, then I must be real if all possibilities exist. As I recall, Hawking felt that it was possible to build a machine but some sort of vacuum fluctuations would destroy it right before you tried to use it.

((You claim that you have no desire to prove your story to us, yet everything you have done from the moment you first posted here has flown in the face of that.))

Im not sure thats true. In fact, Ive tried to point out on at least two occasions that anything I do (at the request of someone else) to support my claims can be found someplace else on your worldline right now.

((What is more, you bring with you the claim that you will tell us no names, no locations, or any specifics as a result of your supposed ethics. If those were indeed the ethics you were committed to and reasoned with, you would not be here now.))

I am curious about this also. Do you think I should not interact with you for your safety or mine?

((I visit with a pink unicorn in the garden behind my house at night and it talks to me. I would show it to you but it only comes out when I am alone.))

For some reason, I believe you.

RYAN:
((Time travel may be possible, but if you were to time travel, you would NOT land on Earth. You would land in a vacuum of space. You have to take into account that the universe is expanding, the Earth, the solar system and the galaxy are all moving. If you truely did travel back through time, you'd materialize in 1970 where the Earth WILL be in 2036, which is NOT Earth.. it's space.))

Yes, this is a problem. It was solved by taking a snapshot of the local gravity around the unit before leaving a worldline and incorporating it into the sinusoid during travel. The short answer is, you stick to the earth but this is only a useful explanation to understand it and its not practical. Since the computer system is using a virtual reference, the calculations become flawed. Thus:

1. Based on the accuracy and timing of the snapshots the distortion units are limited to how long they can travel before becoming unstable.

2. We must leave and arrive in areas we have prior or future knowledge of in order to avoid massive objects (buildings, water, etc)

3. The unit has a fail-safe system during travel that drops out in case of a unit shutdown or radical departure in gravity readings.

((Answer this factoid, John, and I will believe you until the ends of the Earth.))

Again, you should not offer this to anyone for any reason.

RICK:
((If John wants a way to prove anything - which from his previous posts he has stated he DOESN'T WANT TO DO - then I am more than willing to look over his proofs. However - just because I were to look something over gives no more meaning to the rest of you than it would if one of you looked his stuff over, believed it then told ME.))

Exactly!

MEL:
((How would someone that came here with no money all of the sudden have plenty of money now? You could have brought the lowest denomination coin of your time with a mint mark anywhere after 2001 and probably convinced almost all of us. At least some people. It would be hard to fake.))

The reason I dont have 2036 money is because it takes up weight, space and can be faked and I can't use it for anything. What type of expenses do you think a time traveler would have that I would need so much money for?

SIMON:
((1) Simply inscribe your knowledge of any large scale events (disasters, discoveries, etc etc) over the next six months (there should be at least one memorable example) into a text file.

(2) Encrypt said text file.

(3) Give text file to a custodian. I sure Art Bell would volunteer, he's very interested in time travel.

(4) In six months time give Art the encryption key and he can reveal what you said.))

The only problem is, now you have to trust the person who brings the information forward.

RANDY:
Im not sure you really wanted me to answer those questions. If you could be more specific I would enjoy the conversation. Do you believe that faith alone will get you to God? Do you believe in an organized force of evil that works against mens souls?

13 coming

Posted by Randy Empey on 02-19-2001 01:00 PM

Thumbs up

John T --

I would like you to answer any of the questions which you feel you can answer. I would not ask were I not curious. You, of course, are allowed to censor yourself and direct the conversation by what you choose to respond to and say.

It may intrest you to read some of the other threads on this bbs, the ones about other topics, like religion . . . and post in them.

But I think I can provide a brief response to your questions to promote further conversation here.

I believe that faith AND good works will get one to God. There are other things, but they can arguably be included under the headings of 'faith' and 'good works'.

I believe there is an organized force of evil that works against God's plan for men's souls. Its all part of the plan.

Your next question may be "Why do you believe that?" . . .

My answer is two part:

1. I was born into a family where such beliefs run strong. It feels right to believe what my loved ones believe.

2. My studies since my childhood have done nothing but confirm that such beliefs are at least well founded, if not indicated by the way I understand that 'things' work in this reality. By this I allude to many different avenues of the pursuit of knowledge. Recently, the most convincing has been things I've learned in my study of physics, of all things . . .

Some scientist say science has made them athiests . . . I say science, as I understand it, has had the opposite effect on many others.

I like to think, and the more I think, the more I become convinced that my beliefs are accurate enough for my purposes.

But, they are beliefs, and I could not prove them to you.

Another reason why I am stubborn in some of these beliefs, the religious ones and other parts of my philosophy is because it feels right -- almost as if by intuition or subconscious communications from 'the other side'.

I don't think the possibility of TT disagrees in any way with any of the elements of my philosophy.

I think many reading this thread would like you to expound on the elements of your philosophy, John.

I vaguely remember you mentioned being religious . . . am I remembering straight? (I'll look over the past posts of course, but reiteration doesn't hurt.) How would you answer your own questions?

Could you talk a bit more on how the 'many worlds' view point introduced by the advent of the TT tech. developed in your society affects the religious views of both the masses and the thinkers?

I think that it works with the way I understand things -- Falling under the 'many flocks' arguement, if nothing else.

You mention gathering written material here . . . so I assume you do a lot of reading -- before this trip, in your spare time, did you read much fiction? If so, what genre? Any books from this century?

What brought you to this bbs in the first place?

And here is another character-o-meter question I'd like you to answer: Have you seen George Lucas's Star Wars Trilogy (bonus points for any of the prequels or sequels)?

Posted by Joe Norris on 02-19-2001 01:12 PM

Question

1: What happens to Bill Clinton between now and 2036

2: What happens to Bill Gates between now and 2036

I am sure these are both headline events that will be talked about for several years to come.

Posted by John Titor on 02-19-2001 01:14 PM

RANDY:
((I believe that faith AND good works will get one to God. There are other things, but they can arguably be included under the headings of 'faith' and 'good works'.
I believe there is an organized force of evil that works against God's plan for men's souls. Its all part of the plan. Your next question may be "Why do you believe that?" ))

Please dont think me so cynical. I would never insult or degrade someones religious views. My next questions would be what about knowledge? I am a firm believer that faith (and good works) is not enough to get to God. There is a mystery we must solve first.

((I vaguely remember you mentioned being religious . . . am I remembering straight? (I'll look over the past posts of course, but reiteration doesn't hurt.) How would you answer your own questions?))

Yes, I believe in organized evil. It would sure be easier to carry out an evil plan if no one beloved you existed. Just curious, can anyone tell me what Satan really means?

Had to answer those quickly. I have nothing but open-mindedness for religious conversation and I look forward to more. Ill get to the other questions soon.

Thanks.

Posted by Ernie Vega on 02-19-2001 02:45 PM

Wink

Hi John:

Best I could find is from the Hebrew Ha-Satan, or "the Adversary."

First, let's examine what the Bible reveals about the origin of Satan and the demons.

EZEKIEL 28:12 "Son of man, take up a lamentation for the king of Tyre, and say to him, 'Thus says the Lord GOD: "You were the seal of perfection, full of wisdom and perfect in beauty. 13 You were in Eden, the garden of God; every precious stone was your covering: The sardius, topaz, and diamond, beryl, onyx, and jasper, sapphire, turquoise, and emerald with gold. The workmanship of your timbrels and pipes was prepared for you on the day you were created. 14 You were the anointed cherub who covers; I established you; you were on the holy mountain of God; you walked back and forth in the midst of fiery stones. 15 You were perfect in your ways from the day you were created, till iniquity was found in you. 16 By the abundance of your trading [rekullatek] you became filled with violence within, and you sinned; therefore I cast you as a profane thing out of the mountain of God; and I destroyed you, O covering cherub, from the midst of the fiery stones. 17 Your heart was lifted up because of your beauty; you corrupted your wisdom for the sake of your splendor . . ." (NKJV)
REVELATION 12:3 And another sign appeared in heaven: behold, a great, fiery red dragon having seven heads and ten horns, and seven diadems on his heads. 4 His tail drew a third of the stars of heaven and threw them to the earth. . . . (NKJV)
LUKE 10:17 Then the seventy returned with joy, saying, "Lord, even the demons are subject to us in Your name." 18 And He said to them, "I saw Satan fall like lightning from heaven." (NKJV)
From the preceding Scriptures, we can learn several things about Satan and the fallen angels. In the beginning, this "anointed cherub" was created as a wise, beautiful, and powerful angel. He apparently was one of the two cherubs who cover the mercy seat (God's throne) with their wings (see Heb. 8:5; 9:5, 23-24; Exo. 25:20; 37:9; I Kin. 6:19-28; 8:6-7; I Chr. 28:18; II Chr.3:10-13; 5:7-8). However, because of pride in his beauty, this cherub's wisdom was corrupted.

Satan is symbolically called the "king of Tyre" (Eze. 28:12). The coastal city-state of Tyre was one of the world's greatest traders during Israel's monarch period. Isaiah calls Tyre "the bestower of crowns, whose merchants were princes, whose traders were the honored of the earth" (Isa. 23:8).

Although the Scriptures don't define the trade Satan was engaged in, it clearly tells us that because of the abundance of his trade, he sinned. Possibly Satan implemented a system of competition rather than cooperation, which eventually filled him with violence, causing his iniquity.

The word rendered "trading" in the NKJV translation of Ezekiel 28:16 is a form of the Hebrew noun rekulla, which means "traffic" or "merchandise." This particular form of rekulla is only found five times, all in Ezekiel (Eze. 26:12; 27:20, 23; 28:16, 18).

However, rekulla is derived from the root word rakal. It's relevant to note that a closely-related derivative, rakil, means "slanderer." It's used in this context six times (Lev. 19:16; Jer. 6:28; 9:4; Eze. 22:9; Pro. 11:13; 20:19). The account of Satan in Ezekiel 28 could well involve aspects of both these meanings. In the New Testament, this fallen angel is often called the "devil," or the diabolos in the Greek (Matt. 4:1, 5, 8, 11; 13:39; 25:41; Luke 4:2, 3, 6, 13; 8:12; John 8:44; 13:2; Acts 10:38; 13:10; Eph. 4:27; 6:11; I Tim. 3:6, 7; II Tim. 2:26; Heb. 2:14; Jam. 4:27; I Pet. 5:8; I John 3:8, 10; Jude 9; Rev. 2:10; 12:9, 12; 20:2, 10). Not coincidentally, the literal meaning of diabolos and its variations is "slanderer."

It's possible that through his "slander" and "gossip," Satan turned one-third of the angelic host against God. We know that Satan tried this approach in the Garden of Eden, when he misrepresented God's motives to Eve (Gen. 3:1-5). The angelic forces loyal to God eventually had to cast this "anointed cherub," along with his allies, out of heaven. From that point forward he became known in Hebrew as Ha-Satan, or "the Adversary."

There is more e-mail me if anyone wants the rest

Peace

Posted by Javier Cortez on 02-19-2001 03:25 PM

Smile

I'm still waiting for you to respond to my questions TT_0. After all, I did put HJYABJ 100 at the end of my post.

-Javier C.

P.S. Now its no longer an excuse of not being able to log on. We await your respond.

Posted by Simon Wiggins on 02-19-2001 03:32 PM

>>The only problem is, now you have to trust the person who brings the information forward.

Why if I had a glove sir !!!
Of course you could trust Art to fess up if you were right!

You must be from a very dystopian future to be so cynical

Posted by Nikki Colwill on 02-19-2001 04:57 PM

I just gotta say this is some of the best reading entertainment I have had in a LONG time!!!

Posted by Pamela Moore on 02-19-2001 06:10 PM

Smile

Hi everybody. wow! this is a very interesting forum.
for any body wanting to see what a IBM 5100 portable computer looks like they can see one here:

you will have to type it in I guess direct links are not allowed. (( [ Register or Signin to view external links. ] )
I am hoping this shows up ok and does not offend the moderators.
It is on the other board but I was not sure if the link to the other board was still on here.

Anyway it looks like a very interesting piece of machinery.
It will give you a better idea on the machine John is talking about that he went back to 1975 to get. how big it is and what it looks like.

sincerely,
pamela

Posted by Lola Montez on 02-19-2001 07:21 PM

To John,

I hope you will get to some of my previous questions, in the meantime I have more.

Why are orphans an issue? It seems war orphans would be pretty old by now.

What is your biggest or gravest environmental issue?

Does distillation remove radioactivity from water?

Do people still watch TV?

Are there any women on your travel team? What is the status of women in your time? (This may only be able to be answered by a woman)Do they hold office? Work outside the home? Get equal pay? Are they safe on the streets at night?
What do women wear for the most part?

Are the Amish alive and well?

What is the birth rate?

Is there an unusual rate of birth defects and if so what kind?

Maybe you should be taking back healthy sperm and eggs.

You said that your culture was centered around the Universities. Weren't they wiped out in the war? They are in cities after all.

Do you use cell phones? Eat allot of red meat? Drive cars?
Are airlines in operation? Internationally?

Are people pressured (subtle or otherwise) to adhere to a Christian doctrine?

Do police make drug busts? Are there many jails? What kind of criminals are in them?

What kind of public punishment is there? Sounds like New England during religious persecution and intolerance.

Are there Wholistic healers? Herbal medicines? Alternative life styles?

Is there personal freedom?

Is there an IRS and a need to keep a lot of receipts and paperwork around to justify yourself?

Is the same type of currency used? Is ours today good in say 2010 or 2020?

Other than time travel how do most people get around the country? Do people tend to travel much?

Are people suspicious of strangers or all you one big happy family now?

How do most people die during the war? Radiation, starvation? bullet wounds?

I have more but I better quit to see if you will get to these and don't forget my first posting, please.

Thanks,
lola

Posted by John Titor on 02-19-2001 07:25 PM

ERNIE:
((ARTIFICIAL MICROSINGULARITY = LOCALIZED KERR FIELD
Through trial and error, and although they are quite heavy, hot and capable of putting out a great deal of energy (300 - 500 megawatts), it's discovered that these microsingularities can be electrified and captured. It is also interesting to note at this point that electrified singularities also have two event horizons. By spinning these various microsingularities, a localized Kerr field is created.

It looks like a prediction. Is it.))

If you can take that paragraph and find a way to make a dollar from it than more power to you.

BLONNIE:
((i would first like to state that i for one have never said you're an idiot - i said you are aggravating. which is not really a personal problem w/yourself it is just how i perceive you to be. an adjective - not a noun.))

Point taken. I apologize.

((so that's what this is all about? you come here & want us to "help" you by asking questions.. so you can figure out how -we- percieve things & why we think the way we do but you do not recipricate the efforts. you only discuss things that you care about or that -you- think are important or that -you- think you will "gain" something from. seems rather -one-sided- to me.))

I was hoping it wouldnt be so confrontational. I dont see how words can harm either one of us.

((so you return home w/a better understanding while we're left here w/the same questions we had before? it doesn't seem very beneficial to -us-..just to -you- (atleast from your statements)).

You must believe that we both have interesting things to say to each other. Isnt that worth it all by itself?

JAVIER:
((What state do you live in now in 2001?))
I am in Florida.

((Is John Titor your real name?))
Yes, John Titor is a real name.

((What do you look like? Post a picture of your self. ))
No.

((What is your secret agenda?))
If I tell you, it would just be an agenda, which Im sure, is much less interesting.

((Is this dialogue between people in these posts part of your secret agenda?))
If I had a secret agenda, talking to people would not be part of it.

((Does your younger self realize what you are?))

Yes, he is aware that I exist but he doesnt know who I am.

((Are you married?))

No but I did have a chance to convince myself otherwise.

((What rank were you in the Army?))

It is the equivalent of Major.

((Where did you go to BCT?))

I wasnt fortunate enough to go to basic. We were fighting a war at the time.

((What company were you with, and what year did you graduate from BCT?))

The organization of the fighting unit I was in fell under the militia. We fought against the organized army.

((You have any fears? If so, what are they?))

I fear people who want others to take action based on their own emotions and irrational fears.

((What are the rules for fraternizing with people who arent from your time; do you make friends easily here in 2001?))

Have common sense and get your job done. Yes, I have friends.

((What would the DOD do to you if they found you out?))

Im sure I would end up in one of their nice little padded cells while they poked at my machine with a screwdriver. What do you think they would do?

((What would you do if someone attempted to investigate you? Hundreds of people go through these forums a day Im sure. Some of which can be government. Arent you at all worried that its only a matter of time before you are found out?))

I dont worry about that very much. No one believes me anyway. Right?

((And you said; "I very much want to discuss our cultures but please help me understand how you wont be able to change something I tell you happened on my worldine." ))

Suppose I told you the space shuttle would have a problem landing at Kennedy tomorrow because something goes wrong with the runway. If someone with the authority to do so hears that and makes the decision to land at Edwardsbingo, your future has changed from my past.

((I appreciate you answering these questions for me John, and thank you for calling me your friend.))

Id really like to believe that

RICK:
((I want you to understand something - since you're using our discussions to make a determination of our thinking for when you go back.))

I am not qualified to judge you. I merely said it would be a subject of discussion when I return.

((However, rest assured, if I went to the security office and said, "I have access to a time traveler" I'd get laughed at. I'd have to get in touch with the "right people" to "report" the incident, and even then the skeptics would over rule the "believers".))

If that were not the case, I would not be posting at all.

((The US government... Russian or any other, would be in the same boat. They would, if they could believe it, GRAB and hold time travelers - checking the veracity of their stories and preventing them from having any interaction with anyone.))

Yes, thats what I think too. The irony is, Im not sure the machine will really do anything for them and all I can give them is stock quotes and sports news. (Just a little humor.)

((So - John, my comments about being fraudulent - please don't take them seriously and please do not think I have anything against you personally, nor wish to discredit you. I only want the honest truth.))

I dont. Truth is something we all want. Like opportunity, its something you have to be ready for to recognize it.

((John, what would it take to get you to stick around after spring and leave during the next window of opportunity?))

My parents are much better at cards than I am. I fear they may not let me leave in such debt. If I had all the time I needed, I would spend much more time downloading and archiving.

((I fear that another month or 2 may not be enough time to get as much said and discussed as I would like to have.))

I will continue to answer the posts as long as I can.

((In your "world time" have things like "Saquatch" , "Loch Ness monster", and other reported unusual animals been seen, or captured or explained away. ))

We have our swamp monsters too. In fact, I think its interesting that we all respond to the unknown the same way regardless of our cultural experiences.

((Is remote viewing used to gather military intelligence?))

I am only aware of it from this worldline. I dont know otherwise.

((Are psychics still common? are they used by the government?))

Yes, psychics exist but I dont have any knowledge of their use by the military.

((Is there a Police Dept as we know it. Have any of your top leaders or politicians been jailed or impeached?))

Yes, we have police but they are organized in smaller groups. Yes, we still have political and religious leaders who find it difficult to obey the law. I would submit to you that the law is only as good as the peoples willingness to apply it evenly and swiftly.

((John, any chance of getting a better set of photos with more of the manual?. ))

Yes, I am pondering posting more of the manual. I am also considering having my departure videotaped and yes, it will be free. My only concern is how it might affect the me on this worldline.

((John please respond to my question as to "the prediction" did I jump the Gun? (get ahead of myself).)

Ill have to go back and take a second look. Post again and remind me.

((One final question? Is there a Global Superpower state and what nation is it.))

Being a superpower only makes you a target. There is an uneasy balance in the world now that everyone probably has nukes, chems or bios. We don't just bomb people for the hell of it anymore. Military power is based on the number of autonomous fighting men who are actually willing to fight.

CRAIG:
((I guess you are held accountable, in some way, for changes that occur in your time period..))

Youre pretty much correct about your statement but actually, nothing I do here will affect my home. I hold myself accountable for any damage I do.

((It seems to me that with the cities under such stresses, people would flock in large numbers to remote areas like Winnipeg (sorry guys) or some other region with plenty of clean water, air and soil. Why is this such a nelected fix? I would also imagine that the network of Intentional Communities (communes?) that took root over the years, would provide infrastructural support to a nation needing to find its "FOXFIRE" roots.))

In my opinion, people now take clean water, electricity and their feeling of safety for granted. If they leave the city in search of fresh water they first have to make the realization that fresh water is a problem. Its much easier to demand someone else owes you fresh water than it is to leave the lifestyle that made it bad in the first place.

((If I was transposed to the 1920's or 30's, you would have a hard time keeping me off the streets, out of public places, shops, concert halls, etc. just trying to take it all in. Ditto with just about any other time and place.))

I agree with you. The first time I walked into a superstore I cried. Id never seen so much excess in one place at one time.

RICK:
((It is interesting to note that the photos posted on that other site were posted by an "anonomyous time traveler" some time back. It fits the exact description John has give us of his machine. Therefore, based on his discription alone, I would say he is the one that posted the pictures. If he didn't post them, then he is using them for the basis of his story.))

Those are mine. They were posted by another person who Im sure is reading this also and would be happy to confirm that.

((John - in looking closely at this device, I see there is a hand control unit - with some sort of screen on it. I assume this is the computer interface through which the device is programmed (or time settings are made). Is that an accurate assumption? What does the display show you (for instance, does it simply show things like time/date calculations, or radiation [probably wrong word] of the fields from the device?))

Yes, that is a remote unit. The unit itself gets hot and unapproachable during long travel and youre usually subjected to about 2 Gs. It gets a little difficult to move around and the hand held unit sits next to you. The unit displays many things but time in transit, time to destination, VGL variance and unit temperature are the most common during travel.

((Also, there are 16 apparent buttons. I have to assume further that these are multifunction keys (that is you press one for an alt/control function and other buttons have names or labels and perhaps even numerical meanings). Is that also accurate?))

Yes, the menus are screen driven.

Posted by Pamela Moore on 02-19-2001 07:53 PM

Smile

Confirming for John:

""""RICK:
((It is interesting to note that the photos posted on that other site were posted by an "anonomyous time traveler" some time back. It fits the exact description John has give us of his machine. Therefore, based on his discription alone, I would say he is the one that posted the pictures. If he didn't post them, then he is using them for the basis of his story.))

Those are mine. They were posted by another person who Im sure is reading this also and would be happy to confirm that. """""

Yes, I will confirm the fact that John did send me the photos and I sent them to Doc ,who is also a friend of mine ,to post on his board.and I will be more than happy to post more of your manual if you want, John.

sincerely,
pamela

Posted by Lola Montez on 02-19-2001 08:13 PM

How do I find the pictures and manual pages you are speaking of?
Thanks

Posted by Javier Cortez on 02-19-2001 10:07 PM

John,
So those responds to our questions took you 5 days to come up with? Is that the best you could do?

Your not really efficient are you, when youre asked to think on your feet?

You said you went to basic training remember, on the other forum? And thats how you got asked to be apart of this Time Travel project in the first place. Be consistent.

And the question was, "Is John Titor your real name?"
Your responds, "Yes, John Titor is a real name."

And you didn't even answer the other questions fully. You answered them like a politician would, and thats by stepping around the truth without actually lying. Youre to generic. But its logical enough to keep your story and claims going.

But for how long ?

-Javier C.

[Edited by Javier Cortez on 02-19-2001 at 10:13 PM]
Posted by Javier Cortez on 02-19-2001 10:18 PM

John you were asked these 2 questions, and you responded to them. But I would like you to answer them again, and to please elaborate more on them. Thank you.

((John, any chance of getting a better set of photos with more of the manual?. ))

........My only concern is how it might affect the me on this worldline.

((I guess you are held accountable, in some way, for changes that occur in your time period..))

........nothing I do here will affect my home. I hold myself accountable for any damage I do.

So where do you stand? Your awfully unclear when asked questions of this nature. And you always give a conflicting point of view to others you've had to answer. And it's always about you.

So how about we set the record straight here this time, huh ?

Oh and by the way everyone. John here says no one believes him... Is that right everyone? Well if that's true or not, he's in FLORIDA and goes by the name of JOHN TITOR. Do your own investigation, and show him how much you believe him. I'm sure you'll get some takers .

-J.C.

[Edited by Javier Cortez on 02-19-2001 at 10:46 PM]
Posted by John Titor on 02-20-2001 05:06 AM

JAVIER:
((So those responds to our questions took you 5 days to come up with? Is that the best you could do?))

How many days seem normal?

((You said you went to basic training remember, on the other forum? And thats how you got asked to be apart of this Time Travel project in the first place. Be consistent.))

Your question referred to army basic training. My earlier comment referred to be choosen for this mission.

((You answered them like a politician would, and thats by stepping around the truth without actually lying. Youre to generic. But its logical enough to keep your story and claims going.))

Im not sure but it sure looks like your trying to say Im being truthful within your expectations. However, if youre trying to hurt my feelings, comparing me to a politician will do it.

(........My only concern is how it might affect the me on this worldline.)

Actually, this is a good question. If the me here goes on to have the same type of life and future work that I did, it may not look good on his resume that another him has left a videotape behind of his future mission to 1975.

((I guess you are held accountable, in some way, for changes that occur in your time period..))
((So where do you stand? Your awfully unclear when asked questions of this nature. And you always give a conflicting point of view to others you've had to answer. And it's always about you.))

If you look at my concern carefully, you can see that it wont affect me at all. It affects him.

((Oh and by the way everyone. John here says no one believes him... Is that right everyone? Well if that's true or not, he's in FLORIDA and goes by the name of JOHN TITOR. Do your own investigation, and show him how much you believe him. I'm sure you'll get some takers))

Im touched by your concern for my safety.

Posted by Rick Donaldson on 02-20-2001 07:49 AM

Art had a fellow on the show the other day from a Time Travel organization.

John, do they have anything to do with the "future" of time travel as YOU know it? The information can be found on Art Bell's site, as well as the full audio archive of the show.

If you get the chance, listen in, and check out the web site and tell us what you think of the information the doctor provided on the show.

About video taping the depature... Let us assume you do this, and your agents (family?) in florida send the tape to the Sci Fi channel, or to Art Bell... how would this affect you in the future?

Theoretically speaking, I doubt that anyone could determine that you actually time traveled, but it would certainly make a very good show.

When you depart this time, what is it we will see? Will the vehicle simply vanish instantly, or fade out? Will a "bubble" of time develop around the vehicle causing an darkened sphere preventing light from going through? Will anything (other biological entities) caught in the "time sphere" vanish as well - more specifically, any plants or animal life that approaches too closely to the vehicle... will they get dragged along?

Rick

Posted by Pamela Moore on 02-20-2001 08:16 AM

Rick,
I am not familiar with Art's site what is the name of the program on the time travel organization audio and how do i find it? I would like to listen to it. thanks.

sincerely,
pamela

I know John is busy archiving and I am going to help him out on this one because he has already answered the last couple of questions you had. I am sure he will appreciate it. here you go Rick:

Pamela: 1.What exactly would an observer see as they saw you arriving in this
time? and exactly what would they see as you departed? would you just appear
suddenly or slowly? would you look like a heat mirage for awhile? any
light effects? or hazy misty shimmering distortion?

Time travel_0- The observation of time travelers "appearing" suddenly in a world line do not happen very often. There are two cases and two points of view to consider. In the first case, the time machine does not move as it goes from one world line to another and then returns. The people watching on the original world linewould wave good bye and watch as the machine is turned on.
There would be a static discharge and the air would appear to "ripple" as if it were getting denser. Then, it would stop and the machine will have appeared to have gone no where. If the machine doesn't move its position from world line to world line, the observer would not see it disappear at all. In the second case, if the machine is moved, it would disappear from the viewpoint of the observer and return in a different location based on where it was moved and turned on from the destination world line. In that case, the rippling seems to dissolve the machine and it disappears. If that happens while you are watching it leave and you expect it to return, you know it was moved or had a serious malfunction. It is actually quite dangerous to get too close to a distortion unit as it enters or leaves a world line. It vents radiation and has a very strong localized gravity field. Personally, I worry about that a great deal.

Pamela:2.What is the dimension of the field around the car? How many feet out from the car would you say it goes?

Timetravel_0-It can be adjusted to some degree. The CG (center of gravity) is adjustable within about 4 feet and the unit is effective about 10 to 12 feet in either direction from there. The vertical distance is quite a bit shorter and is determined by sensors in the unit.

Pamela:3.approximately in inches how much of the ground is taken with you in one trip?

timetravel_0-Depending on weather or not you are going forward or backward, the footprint of the unit is different. I wouldn't quite say it "scoops" up the ground cleanly. It sort of vibrates it loose and takes it along for the ride. It looks like someone raked the ground an inch or so deep with a small hand hoe or shovel. The negative ergosphere "scoops" up the front and back areas of the field. The positive ergosphere leaves a longer area near the center of mass. Its about a cubic foot of dirt spread out over six square feet or so.

Pamela:4.If they put the device in a house and turned it on what do you think would happen?

Timetravel_0-It might not be as destructive as you think. Depending on how close any object is to the field, it might not do any damage at all except for the floor.

Pamela:5.what would happen to a bird or small animal that ran across the field right when it was producing the field to travel?

Timetravel_0-It would be quickly spread out over the lateral length of the gravity field. Imagine being squished and stretched at the same time. I would imagine anything left after that would be vaporized and generate static electricity.

Pamela:6.how hot would you say the temperature gets on the outside of the car while in operation?

Timetravel_0-Very! hot. Depending on the power setting, 100 to 120 degrees is average.

Pamela:7.is the car in drive mode when the device is activated or is it totally turned off?

Timetravel_0-The car is off and the brake on.

Pamela: 8.has the device been tested on ships and airplanes?

Timetravel_0-Not that I'm aware of. Its important that it remain as still as possible so the gravity sensors can get a good lock. The divergence confidence would be way off if the vehicle was moving.

Pamela:9.do you wear special uniforms when you time travel? what do they look
like and does your group have a timetravel emblem or group name?

Timetravel_0-I wear a standard civilian service uniform during instruction and training.
Its sort of a cross between an army uniform and overalls. We do have a
quarter master who distributes clothing appropriate to where
ever we are going. There is a patch. It is round and has a graphic of a
Kerr singularity (sort of looks like an eye with gravity waves around it)
with two spiral paths running through it's center. One path represents the
"safe" way and the other is the path to God. The bottom of the patch has my
unit number along with "Temporal Recon" printed on it. However, we remove
any identification and patches before we go anywhere

..............................................
Pamela:
by the way can you tell me what it feels like to time travel? when you are
in the process of doing it what does it feel like and what do you see and
hear. you made mention that you had to get use to the fields. Do you see a
bright flash of light?

Timetravel_0:
Interesting first question. The unit has a ramp up time after the
destination coordinates are fed into the computers. An audible alarm and a
small light start a short countdown at which point you should be secured in
a seat. The gravity field generated by the unit overtakes you very quickly.
You feel a tug toward the unit similar to rising quickly in an elevator and
it continues to rise based on the power setting the unit is working under.
At 100% power, the constant pull of gravity can be as high as 2 Gs or more
depending on how close you are to the unit. There are no serious side
effects but I try to avoid eating before a flight.

No bright flash of light is seen. Outside, the vehicle appears to
accelerate as the light is bent around it. We have to wear sunglasses or
close our eyes as this happens due to a short burst of ultraviolet
radiation. Personally I think it looks like your driving under a rainbow.
After that, it appears to fade to black and remains totally black until the
unit is turned off. We are advised to keep the windows closed as a great
deal of heat builds up outside the car. The gravity field also traps a
small air pocket around the car that acts as your only O2 supply unless you
bring compressed air with you. This pocket will only last for a short
period and a carbon sensor tells us when it's too dangerous. The C204 unit
is accurate from 50 to 60 years a jump and travels at about 10 years an hour
at 100% power.

You do hear a slight hum as the unit operates and when the power changes or
the unit turns off. There is a great deal of electrical crackling noise from static electricity.

[Edited by Pamela Moore on 02-20-2001 at 08:54 AM]
Posted by Rick Donaldson on 02-20-2001 08:31 AM

[ Register or Signin to view external links. ] (Link here)
The information below will be listed on the site. The guy is Dr. Anderson. His site is listed below.

Rick

02/15/01 - Thu/Fri

Guest: Richard C. Hoagland

Book: The Monuments of Mars: A City on the Edge of Forever
Website: [ Register or Signin to view external links. ]
Topic Search: Apollo Missions

Guest: Dr David Anderson

Website: [ Register or Signin to view external links. ]
Topic Search: Time Travel

Posted by Rick Donaldson on 02-20-2001 09:57 AM

Hi Pamela. Thanks for the answers. I assume you have all this archived from another BBS or something?

What's your part in all this? How did you get the pictures of the machine? Do you know, or have you met John personally?

Have you seen the time machine yourself?

John - If you wouldn't mind, could you post a few more photos of the manual. Not anything that might give away some secret or something, but something that would be interesting from a scientific point of view? Thanks

Rick

Posted by Pamela Moore on 02-20-2001 03:20 PM

Smile

Hi Rick,

((I assume you have all of this archived from another BBS or something?))

This piece of information origionally came from an email conversation between John and I and yes, it was posted on the timetravelinstitute BB. I only submitted it here so John didnt have to explain it all over again. and it answered your question. I asked him the same question.

((What's your part in all of this?))

Iam not exactly sure...yet.

((How did you get pictures of the machine?))

John gave them to me.

((Do you know, or have you met John personally?))

I have been talking to John since Nov. 2, 2000.
Where I came in contact with him through the timetravelinstitute. I have been in communication with him every since.

Thankyou for the link, Rick. I listened to Dr. Anderson it was very interesting indeed. alot of information. hopefully John will have a chance to listen to it.
I am pleasantly surprised I didnt realize what a great source of information Art had here on his web site. I will be listening to several other audios.

sincerely,
pamela

Posted by Javier Cortez on 02-20-2001 03:38 PM

You flatter your self John. You know very well I didn't mean that. I think that was a desprate move on your part. Like always attempting to turn it back to the reciever.

And I'm picking up that your a bit annoyed. What ever happened to thinking rational? One of your fears isn't it?

I am pressed for time at the moment, but I will return later to finish this post A.S.A.P.

-Javier C.

Posted by Brett Fredrico on 02-20-2001 05:09 PM

John posted the following yesterday(2/19/01):
<------SNIP
Suppose I told you the space shuttle would have a problem landing at Kennedy tomorrow because something goes wrong with the runway. If someone with the authority to do so hears that and makes the decision to land at Edwardsbingo, your future has changed from my past.
<------SNIP

Well, what did happen today? The space shuttle was scheduled to land at Kennedy as of this morning but was changed to Edwards at the last minute because of weather. This happens almost half the time though.....so John had a (50/50) chance of telling us the future if that is what he intended to do.

Posted by John Titor on 02-20-2001 05:23 PM

((so John had a (50/50) chance of telling us the future if that is what he intended to do.))

Yes, there was a 50/50 chance of that happening but the odds were easily one out two that it could have gone the other way.

Posted by Phillip Stout on 02-20-2001 05:56 PM

John,

You said that there will be a big war right? And that Russia will nuke some of our major cities, right? Can you at least tell us which cities will be nuked? I'm already guessing you can't. I pray Anchorage isn't one of them..

Are we traveling in space in 2036?
Have we made it to Mars?
Have we colonized the Moon?
Has first contact with an alien race occured?

Posted by Doug Beauchamp on 02-20-2001 06:51 PM

Just a few questions, I apologize if they don't seem 100% thought out or if they've already been answered, I'm tired and I have a lot of work still to do.

1) You say your machine has roughly a 60 year limit. Is it possible to go back 60 years and then another 60 years?

2) Have the people of your time proved the "worldline theory?" If they have, is there any information you can share with is that proves it?

3) Ever hear the story of Edipus? To make a long sotry short, after being told he will kill his father and marry his mother he moves far away. On the road he acciddently killed his father and ended up marrying his mother. Thus, the prophecy is what caused him to fulfill it. You say you don't want to effect anything too much by giving out information, but you could drastically change this worldline just by talking about the war, or anything for that matter.

Posted by Stephen McKay on 02-20-2001 06:58 PM

John,
If you're interested in posting some more photos and (pending your decision) the video of your departure, I would be happy to display them on my site. I've only got 5 meg storage, but I'm not using it at the moment.
I'm eager to see some better photos
E-mail me if you're interested.

Steve

Posted by James R.Quayle III on 02-20-2001 07:29 PM

Question

John Titor ,i posted to you before and would like to let you know that i would love to come along for the ride to the future if you need a sidekick,i am able to fly hot air balloons,a good shot,physically strong and quick,smart on my feet in case a odd event occurs and I would not mind leaving this time to go to yours.I am not attached to any one on this earth ,after all my ET encounters I need not worry of much of this earth,i am 31 and have much experience in the Occult(the hidden),and ET/human affairs,Oh and i know another TT traveler,and have met others.agentq3 @ hotmail.com I thought i would get to the point ,and those who brave to ask get the Willy Wonka Golden TIcket,eh,John Titor,(Or do you not know of that movie reference) ?

Posted by Chris Forrest on 02-20-2001 08:01 PM

Smile

John Titor,

ALL YOUR BASE ARE BELONG TO US.

Well, I don't buy your story. Sorry, some slang terms seem to confuse you. I don't BELIEVE your story. I don't pretend to know the first thing about such advanced topics as time travel, calculating a NFL quarterback rating, or the perfect temperature to cook a Hot Pocket in. Having written all that, of course I do have a question, something that will definitely tell me whether you are full of it or not.

So here goes...

There have been many movements in music...rock, disco, and hip hop are some of them. Though most people probably can't rifle out names of musical groups from 35 years ago, they probably would have a basic awareness of what musical influences prevailed at the time. So my question is...what is the NEXT big movement in music that will take place here in the US, specifically?

I have the feeling this sort of knowledge isn't the stuff you go to Vegas and bet on, because it's pretty generalized and pretty vague, as well. Of course, being as simple-minded as I am, I would figure that most people your age would know at least the types of musical influences that were around as they were growing up. A direct answer will work here, if you don't mind.

>>Chris>>

Posted by Javier Cortez on 02-20-2001 09:58 PM

John,
I like your format, and I see the representative you hired to answer your posts does also. Don't mind if I steal it from you for just a moment .

((How many days seem normal?))

2 at the most. Especially when you make grandiose claims of being from the year 2036. Your credibility suffers big time when you dont reply. Gives the impression that your trying to figure out what to say next .

((Your question referred to army basic training. My earlier comment referred to be choosen for this mission.))

Are you sure about that? I remember distinctively you saying that you got approached for this mission right after basic training. I mean, it was one of my first posts to you in the other forum. After saying "good thing I got injured, or that would have been my fate too."

By the way, not to be picky or anything. But I know how perfect you like to have things with your writing. I just wanted to point out that you misspelled CHOOSEN. Its Chosen, with one O.

((Im not sure but it sure looks like your trying to say Im being truthful within your expectations. However, if youre trying to hurt my feelings, comparing me to a politician will do it.))

Ok, here's were we had a failure in communication. I have been saying all along that you manipulate your statements to benefit your story. I was only saying that you keep doing this, while dodging certain things that would discredit you. But mainly what I'm saying is that your story is very important to you, and that consistency is paramount to you. Right?

((Actually, this is a good question. If the me here goes on to have the same type of life and future work that I did, it may not look good on his resume that another him has left a videotape behind of his future mission to 1975.))

Now you think about this? So youre this Time Traveler from the year 2036 who somehow managed to learn perfect English while fighting a war. But when you Time Traveled to the year 2000 you just had to spill the beans to everyone, and are now finally realizing the out comes of your actions might not be wise.

Man, how irresponsible is that? Do you have any idea how you exploited your self here? Talk about chewing gum and walking at the same time .

((If you look at my concern carefully, you can see that it wont affect me at all. It affects him.))

Yeah I see your concern.

1. Announcing to the whole world who you are.

2. Telling everyone what the future is going to be like, and what to watch out for.

3. Sharing scientific theories of Time Travel to your past, which is our present .

3. Using your perfect English and logic to manipulate others into believing and following your story.

4. Asking for volunteers to go back with you to the year 2036.

5. Saying where you were born and where you live, and knowing that government officials read these post everyday.

6. Admitting that you have a secret agenda. With that said, you know anything you say can be questionable. In other words, you can be lying to everyone big time about everything, your purpose, your motives, your reason for being here.

7. Offering to make a videotape of your departure.

8. And much much more.

Yeah I can see how youre really concerned.

Im sure little Johnny will thank you for making his stay in a government facility the most comfortable during the war and missing his opportunity in becoming a Time Traveler?

((Im touched by your concern for my safety.))

You said your self no one believes you. I was merely trying to see if you were correct. Excuse me for trying to take a poll.

-Javier C.

Posted by John Titor on 02-21-2001 06:33 AM

Perhaps it goes without saying but I would urge everyone to listen to Art's show tonight.

Posted by Mel Reckling on 02-21-2001 07:43 AM

Am I getting this right? You load up all the people who want to go with you in the back of your Chevy pickup, drive from Florida to Minnesota. Sell that truck in Minnesota, buy another truck older than 1975, load everyone back in that truck, drive back to Florida and then depart back to the future. Sounds like it will be quite a sight to behold. If you can, swing by Ohio and give me a honk. Your welcome to stay at my place.

Posted by Javier Cortez on 02-21-2001 08:01 AM

Why is that John, somehow you managed to pay your way to get on the air? So your thinking big now huh?

No problem.

Little Johny needs all the free publicity he can get.

Posted by Rick Donaldson on 02-21-2001 08:26 AM

Javier - I read your note here, and was thinking about something you said... something about "knowing government officials read these posts every day". Actually, I really don't think they do.

Think about this for a minute. I am one of the few government people I know that read stuff like this. To me, it is interesting (and there isn't anything wrong with fantasy role playing in my opinion - assuming that is what John [and perhaps the rest of us] are doing).

It makes sense that one would think they are, but.. who has time? (I do... I have a pretty inanne job most of the time so I read stuff like this when I'm waiting on backups to complete or other things running in the background).

I seriously doubt the CIA or FBI has the man power or the time to do it. Secondarily to that - the so-called "Carnivore" system can't POSSIBLY look at everything out there. I know it can't. No matter what people think. It isn't possible to catch every conversation, email, web page, pager data or anything else in the "ether". IMPOSSIBLE at this point.

Anyway... that's my opinion on the government watching this stuff. They simply "don't believe it" and "have better things to do".

Posted by John Titor on 02-21-2001 08:45 AM

ROY:
((Just wanted to recommend a book I think might tell you volumes about present macro socio-economic conditions that lay the foundation for the evolving political divisions you state lead to a civil war in the US in the near future.
The book is "When Corporations Rule the World" by John C. Korten.))

Ill look for it, thanks. I have a couple for you. The Nine Nations of North America and/or The Physics of Immortality (anyone recognize this author).

ANDREW:
((1) would you be able to internationally travel by:
traveling to the year 2001, fly a plane to the desired destination, and then go to the future from there? ))

You can only travel in time from a static position (at least with the unit I have). In order to do even this, you must have knowledge of the local terrain and building structures. Thats one of the basic protocols we do in any time period for possible, future travelers.

((2) If each world line is separate from the others, then wouldn't the consequences of your actions now have no effect on your original world line?))

Yes, thats correct.

((If this is the case, why won't you tell us things that will give us knowledge or let us avoid death?))

I am not qualified to judge if you deserve it or not and I have no idea if you may be the next (for lack of a better reference) Hitler. However, if I were able to physically help you from a situation because I was there and I knew it was coming, I would help you.

((My only geuss is that you are not a time traveller, and don't want to say anything that could make a gullable person do something stupid. ))

Yes, I am aware that is the obvious first answer but I would hope my moral and logical arguments at least make a dent in your thinking. If you were a time traveler, would you be comfortable giving out all that information after considering the possible consequences? (Provided you knew it). If I were you, I would be worried about what the next time traveler might do.even by mistake.

((3) how can I leave a message for myself in the future if the things I do in this worldline do not effect the others?))

Just post it here. All this information will probably end up on the web in 2036. If youre alive then and you think ahead for some reason to do a search on yourself, you might see it. Of course the you there would have no memory of doing it.

MICHAEL:
((your prediction of its pending disintegration, beginning in three short years, is utterly improbable, if not impossible.))

Have you see the documentary on Waco? You can drive to a video store and rent it. Its called Waco Rules of Engagement. Just for arguments sake, what do you think would happen if information were discovered that confirmed the worst accusations made against the law enforcement officers there? Would you hope.nothing?

((P.S. The idea of a farmer general leaving his fields to lead his country's troops to victory is an old one going back, at least, to Roman times. Lucius Quintus Cincinnatus, I believe, was the gentleman's name, from the 5th Century B.C. Roman Republic.))

Yes, I often think about that when I see pictures of "my" farmer general in Omaha. Its a large bronze depiction holding a shotgun in one hand a copy of the Constitution in the other. He is looking up at the sky in defiance of God after his father was killed. (At least his name isnt Sparticus or William).

ERNIE:
((I guess if you asked Joseph Campbell there are only a few stories and all literature is the re-telling of the same few stories in different settings.))

Just like life.

Lola and the rest coming

Posted by Lola Montez on 02-21-2001 10:28 AM

Javier,
You are getting very hostile. Lighten up! Why are you so threatened? Does it really matter if John is authentic or not? The worst consequence of believing him is being better prepared in case of any emergency-natural disaster or otherwise. Weren't you a boyscout? I think it would be more interesting, informative and just plain fun to find out more of what his vision of the future is than always trying to put him on the defensive. (John, please stop buying into it)Do you think you are going to finally find something to post that will get him to cry "Uncle!". (Why wouldn't he speak English?) I think you are getting too upset over this and you should ask yourself why.
Kind regards,
Lola

Posted by Javier Cortez on 02-21-2001 11:18 AM

How am I being hostile? I'm just asking John questions and answering his comments in the best manner that I know how. No one here is being hostile.

Well, maybe you with those statements.

Better then being a fanatic, who believes in people so blindly.

Well John, you have another fan to back you up.

Somehow some people here believe you need to be protected and backed up.
Go fig.

It must be your story that appeals to them .

And I'm exposing you. And that just hurts some people's feelings.

[Edited by Javier Cortez on 02-21-2001 at 11:43 AM]
Posted by James R.Quayle III on 02-21-2001 01:05 PM

Thumbs up

Hello John I was wondering if you could respond to my post, I was serious.Agentq3

Posted by Joe Norris on 02-21-2001 01:29 PM

John:

I guess there will be no answer about my Bill Clinton/Bill Gates post

Posted by John Titor on 02-21-2001 02:04 PM

If you take a look, I am answering every question in order unless I see something quick that I think needs a response.

Thanks.

Posted by Javier Cortez on 02-21-2001 02:53 PM

How about giving an estimate in how long they will have to wait to get an answer to their questions .

[Edited by Javier Cortez on 02-21-2001 at 03:03 PM]
Posted by Doug Beauchamp on 02-21-2001 03:32 PM

Many people asking about the dangers of the war are asking about cities being nuked. During school today I was thinking about this, and nuclear warfare doesn't seem to be the biggest form of fighting in the future. Other than the small countries, I doubt nuclear warheads are going to be shot from each end of the globe. To me, what seems like the biggest threat is biological warfare. John, you say one of the hardest things to do in 2036 is find clean water. You also say you only trust food you've grown. Is any of this a result of your expiriences with biological warfare? Is bilogical warfare a major threat in this war you speak of?

This is definately the least serious of my questions, but is there anymore background information you can give (What city you were born in, etc)? I understand if you can't but after this thread is over I may get a little bored and see if I can find any information on the John Titor of "today," assuming that's your real name.

Posted by Pamela Moore on 02-21-2001 04:22 PM

Let's get the facts straight.

Javier I have been over those pages with a very open mind trying to figuere out where you have seen John make that statement and I couldnt find it.

This is the one you are claiming:
[((Your question referred to army basic training. My earlier comment referred to be choosen for this mission))
Are you sure about that? I remember distinctively you saying that you got approached for this mission right after basic training. I mean, it was one of my first posts to you in the other forum. After saying "good thing I got injured, or that would have been my fate also.]

You made the statement on -Jan 1 2001
page 6
"well its a good thing I got injured in the Army, or else that might have been my fate as well."

awaiting your findings...
could you please copy and paste the statement and tell me what page it is on...thanks.

sincerely,
pamela

Posted by John Titor on 02-21-2001 04:35 PM

LOLA:

((How far from what size city is it the safest to be?))

A 10 Kiloton nuclear weapon will vaporize metal for about a mile and have a heat effect for about 3 miles. A 100 Megaton nuclear weapon will vaporize metal to 35 miles and have a heat effect to about 250 miles. I believe the largest nuclear weapon ever built and tested was about 60 megatons. As I recall, the popular strategy toady is to strike targets with multiple numbers of smaller warheads. The 100 Kt to 1 Mt are the most popular. I believe there are about 150 - 200 major cities in the US and half as many military targets. Please correct me someone if I am grossly incorrect.

((You suggest bicycle. What about horseback?))

Yes, horses are good if you can feed and water them. Also, its very hard to eat a bicycle.

((Should we be stockpiling guns?))

The answer to this is NO! You will draw a great deal of negative attention to yourself. I recommend become familiar with firearms. This means taking a safety course and learning to shoot and clean many different types. There will be plenty of guns around when you need them.

((What kind of people will be the ones least trustworthy?))

The people with the most to lose if the world changes -Camel through the eye of a needle?

((Is the conflict racial in any way?))

Not at all. In fact, I would say it goes a long way toward erasing racial problems.

((Does the civil war start in such a way that with this foreknowledge those willing will have time to remove themselves to safer locations.))

Yes. You will be forced to ask yourself how many civil rights you will give up to feel safe.

((Will you readily be able to identify the enemy.))

They will be the ones arresting and holding prople without due process.

((Does living near a river with a distillation unit take care of water problems?))

There is an odd saying that might be appropriate here. Safe is anywhere a hungry person cant walk in three days. Water is important but you must consider that when people need it they will know where to get it. I would not plan on planting myself permanently next to a water source. Yes, distillation dose make water safe but the runoff is highly dangerous. Please remember that distillation is not boiling.

((How are the five people within the 100 miles contacted?))

The goal is to have a place to go other than your house and to be able to trust someone with your life. Foster those relationships now.

((Do communications stay intact.))

Main communication systems no, CB, sideband and non-repeating short-wave, yes.

((I have 86 acres on a river in Central California about 125 miles north of LA. I have geese, turkeys, horses, chickens, milk cows, good pasture, a well run by electricity, and a garden. I also have two teenage sons who are gun nuts. Plenty of rifles, semi-automatic and otherwise.))

Be mobile. Set aside the things you absolutely would need and can carry on your back. You will not be able to stay anywhere indefinitely even with provisions and firearms.

(( Will he be asked to kill his countrymen?))

Im not positive but dont they sign a small piece of paper now asking them if they would have a problem with that?

Posted by Roy Meserve on 02-21-2001 05:44 PM

Smile

Thanks for those titles. I will look for them. To J Cortez
chill... reality (and time) are very plastic things- we change the future AND the past constantly, and to far less
noble ends. But, in the spirit of our friend- feel free to
doubt and question- I do myself but I don't let it stop me from trying to learn from what he has to say. Even the very common sense 'rules' for the potential future.... it costs
me next to nothing to be aware or to prepare.

Cheers,

Roy

ps John, it is Wednesday the 21st- did you say to tune into
the show tonight?!!! Cause if so, I'm there! Hope you call.

Posted by Jim Houlahan on 02-21-2001 06:30 PM

John,

I'm guessing the date of your return to the future is April 19th. Is this correct?

Of course, if you're just "having us on" then April 1st would be more appropriate.

Posted by Angel Lynnn on 02-21-2001 06:57 PM

Exclamation

I think John was saying to listen to Dr. Day tonight. Check out her website:

[ Register or Signin to view external links. ]

Feb. 21, 2001

Angellynnn

Posted by Ernie Vega on 02-21-2001 07:00 PM

Smile

Now I'm not volunteering but.....

I've noticed as so must have most of us. There are a lot of questions being asked that John has responded to.
Perhaps one of us could volunteer to compile all the direct q&a sort of a John Titor FAQ. This way new posters can read all the answers that have been given and not have the same questions asked over and over.

John, we can have a topic just for the faq right on this board I think?

General...
I don't think John is starved for web space to post his manual and pictures, many have offered John whatever resources he needs including me. So far he has not been interested.

I'd be more than happy to give him a web site, a domain name, for that matter a web server if it would help get more answers and time out of him. Call me gullible if you want but I would do that.

John:
My mention of Joseph Campbell was a rebuttal to someone who claimed that your General story was un-original. In fact the most likely leader of a movement like the one you describe would most likely be a Farmer since being a Farmer would provide much of the scenario required.

My asking you if the mention of CERN going on-line and discovering this and that, was a prediction was a genuine question completely un-related to "making a Buck".
I wondered if it was just a hint you were giving as to something that could be verified after the fact with little chance of you mentioning it having an effect on it.

I'm sure it's hard to remember what each poster has said, but in my case you missed. I have argued that the important thing here is the discussion and not if "you are" or "you are not" a TT. For me what is interesting is the type of questions that are being asked, and the apparent hostility that someone like you can be subjected to for no "good" reason.

Ultimately there is no way to "prove" anything conclusive here.
Since I believe time travel is possible "now" I don't have a problem with your story. I like your story since it ends up being a better world than we have now. I hope it is true.
If it is we are all lucky to have had a chance to talk to a TT. If not then I wish you either a quick recovery or a great career as a Sci Fi writer.

What can we gain from this discussion? is the real question.
I have already benefited from it as I believe you have, and many others.

Javier... To comment on Lola's post. I understand your frustration, you want your questions answered.

If I were John I would not answer your questions either or skirt them. Not because they are not valid, as they may be, but because your buttons are being pressed by his non compliance.

I'm sure even in 2036 there is a tendency to tease one's detractors if they make themselves available.

To expose someone you have to present "proof" the same type of "proof" you are asking him for. According to our Laws if this were a court case John would not have to prove where he came from. The burden of proof is on the prosecution. It's up to you to prove he is not a TT.

So far most of your assertions have been related to either John not answering your questions, or some inconsistency in his story revolving around his Basic training and it's relevance to when he was recruited for time travel.
Also his use of "perfect" English. His English is good but far from perfect.

John has "not answered" some of my questions to "my satisfaction" and I for one am not ready to sign up for either the "I believe" camp or the "I don't believe" camp.
My reason for straddling the fence at this time is that.

No one here has presented any evidence either way that would be conclusive. Not you, not John, not anyone.

In a game of chess you have to either kill your oponent or chip away at his defenses until you trap him and he gives up. To do that you have to mount an offense that will neutralize his defenses. Conversly you have to mount a defense to repel his onslaught. So far you've not mounted either.

John is "playing you" Javier. It's an old trick, if your most vociferous detractor continually puts on weak attacks, it takes attention away from the really challenging questions.

I'd be willing to bet that if you took all the posts from this BBS and the other one, and compared all of it, you may find more ammo for your cause.

If I was going to come after a person, I would not warn him, I'd just get all my facts together, give him no warning and set up a line of questioning designed to trap him into "Mutually exclusive statements" if you could log enough of these you could prove he's having trouble keeping the story together. A good sign that he is not telling the truth.

Example:
If you know enough about physics you can get him to say he doesn't undestand a concept that would be required to understand some other concept he claims to understand. To do that you have to know more than him. He knows as much physics as anyone posting here to say the least.

Colloquial slips:
If you analize all his statements you'll find he is aware of some colloquialisms, and not others. That by itself is not much since he claims to come from the future you would expect some colloquial deviation. The thing to look at is which ones he knows and uses and which ones he doesn't.

He knows "make a buck" and "more power to you", and "off the cuff".
He is unaware or dislikes "buy in" or "buy that"
Does that prove anything? not really. Given enough text you can profile him and make a good guess.

Still it doesn't "prove" anything. You have the same chance of exposing him as he has of convincing you. None.

Here's one for you John.

What 82 page book written in England in 1884 is required reading for all physics students? I admit it's possible you may not know in 2036, but highly unlikely. The same reason that makes it so important for physics students would make it just as important to understanding Time travel.
Secondly why is this little book so important.
If he doesn't know this it lends more circumstantial evidence to your side. But he could ask someone and then how do you prove that?

How many amateur Physicists here know that answer without looking it up? Really. If you don't know this off the top of your head, you don't know squat about Hyperdimensional Physics or it's potential technological application. Unless you are Stephen Hawking, this is what it takes to get started. By the way Stephen Hawking read this book and knows exactly what I'm talking about. As do all phycisists.

How about this? Let John make a recording of himself saying he is from the future and whatever other part of his story he wants. We could submit that to voice stress analysis. Is that enough? no again, since a well trained person can beat a voice stress analysis by using self hypnosis or having someone hypnotize them prior to recording. Again no proof.

Short of grabbing John and pumping him full of Sodium pentathol you are not going to have any conclusive proof until after he leaves and has made some predictions for you to check. Since he says this is not his timeline you can't be sure a prediction is even a prediction. Again "no Proof".

So how is it you propose to expose John? can you show "me" your rationale. After all your statements and mine are up for scrutiny the moment we make them just like John.

I realize in your mind you already have exposed him, just not good enough to convince me, and I would hazard to guess a number of others here.

Let's say everyone here agreed John was a fake. What then?
No more dicussion. End of exchange no more platform. Maybe.

Anyway. that's my take. I don't think you are hostile just a little excited.

Rick? any reports from your guys looking at the pics/manuals?

Welcome Lola

Peace

Posted by Javier Cortez on 02-21-2001 07:08 PM

Exclamation

Pamela,
Touchy...

When I have a little time I'll do a keyword search for it. I'm sure it's there. Why else would I say it? Right?

No need to get upset with me. I know hes your friend, but stop protecting him all the time.

And to everyone else here. You all fail to see the big picture here. You have welcomed a stranger into your lives who is not what he appears to be. And I being one of the only one with enough sense to see that, you get upset with me.

Excuse me, but are you forgetting that this man has a secret agenda? You can all be being played right now.

But no, that doesn't matter to you. At least I make no secret of what I am. A Time Travel Activist.http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Atrium/9822/

Thank you,
Javier C.

Posted by Pamela Moore on 02-21-2001 07:20 PM

(((When I have a little time I'll do a keyword search for it. I'm sure it's there. Why else would I say it? Right? ))

will that be within two days?
I shall await....

sincerely,
pamela

Posted by Javier Cortez on 02-21-2001 08:06 PM

Pamela,
I don't know why your so upset with me, but you know my word is good. If I said I will do something, you know I will do it. Or have you forgotten that?

-Javier C.

Posted by Craig Cuthbert on 02-21-2001 08:20 PM

Javier you will obviously be one of the survivors :-)

John - Thanks for your replies.

Does the sense of "here and now" continue for you in 2036, while you are here?

IS your sense of "timing" off, in new time environments? I've heard people who have "out-of-body-experiences" find that it sometimes takes a day or two to regain a sense of normalcy in their minute interactions with the physical world.

I remember reading a book about 7 years ago.

GENERATIONS: THE HISTORY OF AMERICAS FUTURE

It was a sociological look at the history of the United States through the lens of different generational groups. The Authors noted a four cycle repetition.

Its a bit of hard book to summarize, though its central thesis is this - History follows certain cycles. With respect to this folder, what stuck out for me was that the Millenial Kids (recently born and probably up to about 10 or 12 now) were of the same type as the kids who grew up and built the US infrastructure during the 30's and 40's -and then fought WW2. (GI Generation) The GIs were classified as a very civic minded generation. So will the Millenial Kids(MKs). MKs will go on to build the global infrastructure of the information age, the new transportation systems and the new municipal infrastructures. Similar to the GIs they will then go on to engage in global conflict.

John - You were born about halfway into this cycle. BTW, GenXers would be about 40-50 years old in 2036. How they doin'? Were they pretty resourceful scrappers?(Fighters/Survivors)

Bottom line was - prepare for wars around 2008-2012.

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Also see the back page of the New Yorker Dec. 25, 2000 -Jan. 1 2001. I've seen a few references recently to this growing cultural tension, one that supercedes the obvious class, racial and economic divides. Its different and more aggressive cultural mitosis than I had earlier noticed.

Posted by John Titor on 02-21-2001 08:48 PM

EMMETT:
((In this experiment the traveller only goes 30 seconds into the past to appear in his lab. It seems that 30 seconds before his experiment was to begin he saw himself appear in the lab. There would now be two travelers and two time machines. It doesn't appear that it ends that simply as the "second" time traveler says that he saw a duplicate self appear in the lab thirty seconds before he started the trip. It would appear that its a time loop and an infinite number of duplicates see a duplicate self appear in the lab thirty seconds prior to the start of the trip. ))

Yes, thats possible.

((Your time machine weighs 500 lbs and an average man weighs about 180 lbs. So lets say that that the mass is about 700 lbs per traveler. What is the mass of the duplicates and where did the mass come from?))

The other mass comes from other worldlines. I like to think of it as standing in a room with mirrors on the walls and the apparent me in the room next to mine steps into the room from his.

((What is the result of the duplicates arriving ~simultaneously at the ~same place and time?))

Psychological confusion and a few fist fights.

((How long will it take for the loop to decay? Will it decay? Is it a loop?))

The chances of hitting the precise worldline where all the other duplicates are arriving is almost zero. It's possible but increasingly less probable with each arriving duplicate. The divergence decays and the worldline is less available for new yous to arrive on.

((What happens if the experimenter, upon seeing his duplicate, decides not to continue the experiment?))

He can always leave the room on his own worldline or put a desk full of books in the position where the time machine is arriving every 30 seconds. That will probably trip the VGL system and stop the time machines from arriving.

RANDY:
((Do you remember any poetry or verse from after 2001 in your past?))

A Soldiers Winter

The day before it wasnt snowing.
The trees are strangers, leering, disapproving in the ash of winter

..my world, my life, my wandering path.
I pray Gods eyes may once again gaze upon me and remind me that I am still His child.

I only (think) I remember the first line but the last one I remember. It has quite a few more lines that I dont remember. It is rumored this was written first as a letter by a soldier. After he died it was added to and edited by others. In my opinion, it has become a symbol for the collective guilt my parents generation feels for what became of the world.

((Is there an active market on new books in your time, or has that infranstructure not rebuilt it self? Are most the books available old or new? ))

Yes but there are no large commercial printing and distribution companies. Books and other forms of hard media are distributed on the web and printed or put on other media from local hubs. Napster + mailboxes etc.

((Out of curiosity, as a rough judge of character, have you read the works of J.R.R. Tolkien? And did you enjoy them.))

My father read the Hobbit to me as a child. I was always afraid of the dark riders but perhaps I admired them too.

Posted by Javier Cortez on 02-21-2001 10:44 PM

Unhappy

In a post from you Pamela, one before the one I posted where you had from the other forum. I suppose I took it as if it was one of TT_0 posts. Sorry :-(.

Here's a sample: "......In 1983 I enlisted in the united states Army .it was shortly after my enlistment and before completing basic training that I was approached by those I now refer to simply as MY FRIENDS. This group does not contain aliens nor interdimensional beings, they are human...."

Well Im humble enough to say when I am wrong, and I apologize for continuing to ask you this question John, and Pamela.

But, much still remains to be seen of your truthfulness. Yet you have tons of supporters who you managed to woo into believing you without any physical proof. That in it self, how you would allow that, speaks suspect.

Not to mention that you have a secret agenda, and expecting us to think youre being honest.

Right...

-Javier C.

Posted by Lola Montez on 02-22-2001 12:13 AM

John,
Thank you for getting to some of my questions. Here are a couple more.

You say you were in the militia fighting the US Army. I would think that civilians would have a snowballs chance in hell of successfully fighting the military. What does this look like? Is it a stalemate with the resistance/militia hiding out until the cities are wiped out allowing them to surface?

You site the approximate number of cities and military bases intact before the nuclear attack. Are they ALL hit? Three days walk from where? The nearest city? Again, though, what population makes a city a city and not a town?

Does any one or any group stay neutral during all of these years of fighting? Does anyone just lead a reasonably normal life during the civil war? You say the civil war lasts from 2004 to 2008 and then the short big one in 2015. What do the years from 2008 to 2015 look like? How long does WWIII last.

Where is the safest place in the US to be. Come on be a sport. We all seem worth saving, don't we? Besides it would be interesting to see if any of us took you seriously enough to end up there. I don't think I believe in coincidence. Maybe the reason we are all on this board now is to find this out.

You mention the nature of Canadians but I don't think you mentioned the impact of all of this on that country. Would you?

Also, regarding your view on the afterlife. I also think that it is a mystery to unravel. That it is information, awareness, state of mind and experience that leads to enlightenment and the experience of God. Deeds and Dogma just don't do it. As our awareness broadens doing the right thing is what comes naturally (more often, anyway!)If it is based on someone else's idea of right it is a shallow and sporatic endeavor. Religion must be experiential or it has no staying power (and probably not enough compassion or tolerance).

Oh yeah, one more thing that is rather haunting is your allusion to the position of women as being controversial and conservative in 2036. Yikes! What is that supposed to mean?

Lola

Posted by Pamela Moore on 02-22-2001 03:20 AM

Javier,
Thank you for your honesty.
I have went back and looked up that post you mentioned.
Yes, that post was where we were discussing wether the
waverider had any validity or not. and right after that
was when someone else posted that he had been on art bell for awhile and that Art had proved him to be a fake.
which was posted on the TTI forum on January 1, 2001.
I had first seen the story on a paranormal site.
yep... and you did post right after that I see.
actually that might have been where john discovered Art's site as well. yep...it looks like john registered in January.
Its ok to question, we are all just trying to find out the truth about things.
But we have to get the facts straight.

sincerely,
pamela

p.s. I am not mad at you.

Posted by Rick Donaldson on 02-22-2001 06:52 AM

Ernie - The only comment I have heard so far was - "Interesting... I need to look at the original though, to make any sort of determination. Where did you get this?"

Hahaha. I told them I have "my sources". They are content with that.

To Javier - You made mention of something about folks taking someone into their lives, etc etc. While I understand that point of view - the "trust no one, be paranoid" very well - since I am like that myself, I have to say that you and a few others that have made comments here detract from the discussion in one aspect. Let me explain before you misunderstand me.

In our society today, we have nothing but untrusting, cynical people out there. For good reason, most of them have had bad experiences. The internet is not to be trusted in general and people in general shouldn't be trusted.

Now, what I am trying to say here (not very well) is this is akin to some of the antigun people I meet. When I talk about the Second Amendment to them, they get all upset and scream and yell how no one should have guns and if there were no guns there would be no crime or war. I calmly point out that there were wars before there were guns, and they go on about how that was a "less civilized society"...

Then there are the "skeptics" about UFOs, and any kind of odd, out of the ordinary occurrences (for instance, Big Foot, alien abductions, SETI etc). Let's say for instance someone is a "skeptic" - that doesn't mean they should close their minds completely to anything new, in fact, doesn't mean they should close their eyes to the apparently impossible.

In "my world" everything is possible. Just because we have a set of mathematics to describe something here and now, does NOT mean there isn't a loop hole in those calculations.

What I'm getting at is very simple. I don't believe John is a time traveler right now. I have enough of a physics background to understand his information though and (assuming he IS real) eventually he will hit on something that I personally can use to verify for myself the truth.

I think Ernie said nothing would be conclusive proof. Then again, I don't require conclusive proof to keep "alive the idea that time travel is possible".

What I'm trying to say is that you've set yourself up to be John's nemises for some reason. If it is to protect the rest of us, that isn't necessary. We're all adult, thinking (free thinking) individuals who have the right to whatever beliefs we wish in this day and age, regardless of our gender, religious believes, race or even in my humble opinion, nationality.

In other words... a skeptic is a good thing to be. Each of us should have our own, interal skeptism to use to mediate our belief systems. But, when someone comes in loud and strong trying to force everyone to his or her point of view, there is a serious problem.

Now, I'm not asking that you (or anyone) NOT pursue their ideas, and idealism, nor am I even asking you not to try to convince people. I'm simply pointing out that we all have a right to our beliefs - without ridicule from anyone else.

Don't get me wrong here, I am not taking any one's "side" as I don't believe there are sides to take here.

Someone else (I forget who it was) mentioned something about nuclear weapons being tossed from corner to corner of the earth and the impossibility of that. Think again.

There is more of a nuclear threat, right now, today in 2001 than there was in 1983. During the Cold War, we never would have launched a nuke, nor would have the Soviet Union at each other.

However, there is a greater threat today because many smaller, and somewhat unstable countries are getting nuclear capability - and have access to other countries who would sell nukes without any qualms.

Yes, biological threats are bigger, but do not rule out nukes, ever.

Even the CIA special report that came our recently mentioned what I just said.

I guess the only thing we need in this discussion are some more pictures of manuals, and/or a video tape of John's "depature" (if that is what you would call it??) from our time line.

Proof, sometimes like beauty, is in the eye of the beholder.

Rick

Posted by Javier Cortez on 02-22-2001 07:57 AM

Rick,
That was very inspirational. (How ever you spell it =)

However, please understand that my intention is to just keep it real. And believe it or not, someone here has to.

People will march to the sound of his beating drum if someone doesn't speak up and offer an other side. In other words, lots of people here are one sided.

Some aren't free willed thinking individuals as you described... Some need people like John here to give them purpose. A person whom they can look for answers, not someone to lead them. A short-cut more like it.

And Time Travel is that short-cut.

You never been face to face with a Time Traveler have you? First hand experiences are always the hardest to have others understand.

John is not what he appears to be. Yes he is well spoken, and has a pleasant manner in how he presents him self. But looks are deceiving when you have a secret agenda. Take that into your explanation...

Well I have to go now. Ask me more questions if you want. I will answer them all to the best of my knowledge.

Thank you,
Javier C.