"Everything happens for a reason, huh? That's what I use to think"

This section with the topics that get posted really makes me think twice about things.

we all are going tom die its inevitable but just live to the fullest you can

I think that you may be confusing pre-determinsim and a simple lack of free will.

Pre-determinism is the idea that our 'fates' are sealed because a conscious actor has already determined what will happen to the Universe before it does happen.
But this requires a sentient being - usually a God - to be true pre-determinsim.

Otherwise, and I think this may be what you are referring to, it isn't pre-determined as such, it's simply determined in the few moments before it happens because of things which happened in the environment just before it was determined - and so on.

Take the coin flip example you used.

Just before the coin is flipped there are already various factors in the environment which are going to affect how it spins. The humidity in the air, whether there is a breeze, the strength of the person who flips the coin, etc.
But all of those factors were caused by previous factors. Whether someone left a window open, whether the coin flipper is a particularly aggressive person, etc.
And those factors will have their own causes too. Whether someone is cooking something which is giving off smoke, whether the flipper recently had an argument with their spouse, etc.

This is called the Butterfly Effect and if you follow it all of the way back to the beginning of the Earth, then yes, you could say that everything which occurs afterwards is 'pre-determined' but it isn't due to some notion of faith, it is simply the way in which the Universe is unfolding.

It's chaos theory applied to the entire planet for 4.5 billion years. In chaos theory you create models which run for a certain period of time and give you some form of outcome.
This model is a double-rod pendulum and depending on where you drop the pendulum from will give you completely different results over time. It doesn't matter if you drop it from a quarter of a millimeter away from the original starting point, over time the results will be drastically different.

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The point is that this can be predicted for a short period of time before it becomes too chaotic to follow.
You cannot do the same with Earth, but it reacts in the same way. If Earth's initial conditions were changed then everything afterwards would change but if the Earth were to begin again and go through the exact same conditions one more time everything would turn out exactly the same as it has this time.

It's why I maintain that we don't have free will to choose what we want. We have biological urges, psychological tendencies, preferences that we didn't decide upon, a history of 'choices' which affect how we feel about certain things, and although we might think, "I am going to choose A over B" it's not really our choice, it's just all of those prior causes culminating in what we feel is a conscious choice.

To conclude: Yes, I think everything is 'pre-determined' not because of fate or a deity deciding how things will turn out - assuming that is what you were referring to - but because the Earth is a series of prior causes that we can't get ahead of.

Logos wrote I think that you may be confusing pre-determinsim and a simple lack of free will.

Pre-determinism is the idea that our 'fates' are sealed because a conscious actor has already determined what will happen to the Universe before it does happen.
But this requires a sentient being - usually a God - to be true pre-determinsim.

Otherwise, and I think this may be what you are referring to, it isn't pre-determined as such, it's simply determined in the few moments before it happens because of things which happened in the environment just before it was determined - and so on.

Take the coin flip example you used.

Just before the coin is flipped there are already various factors in the environment which are going to affect how it spins. The humidity in the air, whether there is a breeze, the strength of the person who flips the coin, etc.
But all of those factors were caused by previous factors. Whether someone left a window open, whether the coin flipper is a particularly aggressive person, etc.
And those factors will have their own causes too. Whether someone is cooking something which is giving off smoke, whether the flipper recently had an argument with their spouse, etc.

This is called the Butterfly Effect and if you follow it all of the way back to the beginning of the Earth, then yes, you could say that everything which occurs afterwards is 'pre-determined' but it isn't due to some notion of faith, it is simply the way in which the Universe is unfolding.

It's chaos theory applied to the entire planet for 4.5 billion years. In chaos theory you create models which run for a certain period of time and give you some form of outcome.
This model is a double-rod pendulum and depending on where you drop the pendulum from will give you completely different results over time. It doesn't matter if you drop it from a quarter of a millimeter away from the original starting point, over time the results will be drastically different.

[ Register or Signin to view external links. ]

The point is that this can be predicted for a short period of time before it becomes too chaotic to follow.
You cannot do the same with Earth, but it reacts in the same way. If Earth's initial conditions were changed then everything afterwards would change but if the Earth were to begin again and go through the exact same conditions one more time everything would turn out exactly the same as it has this time.

It's why I maintain that we don't have free will to choose what we want. We have biological urges, psychological tendencies, preferences that we didn't decide upon, a history of 'choices' which affect how we feel about certain things, and although we might think, "I am going to choose A over B" it's not really our choice, it's just all of those prior causes culminating in what we feel is a conscious choice.

To conclude: Yes, I think everything is 'pre-determined' not because of fate or a deity deciding how things will turn out - assuming that is what you were referring to - but because the Earth is a series of prior causes that we can't get ahead of.

You have hit the nail on the head, this is exactly what i was talking about, you just used better words
haha. That was interesting to read and has solidified what i originally thought. Lets hope that
my pre-determined life is going to be great hahaha. thank you

I could very much agree to this

Wow I love think about this. I guess nobody knows the true answer answer but I do believe in fate

I totally agree with this. Its kind of scary once you think about it though...