I support gun rights. I oppose bans on "assault weapons" and high capacity magazines, but we need to be reasonable here.
Arming everyone and the mom isn't going to solve the problem.


There are simple things that can be done that would mildly help the problem, such as universal background checks, which even the majority of NRA members support.
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I always said if they ban guns for killing. They should ban spoons for making people fat..

There's so many things wrong with trying to say that because Chicago has strict guns laws and a high crime rate, that means having strict gun laws doesn't effect the amount of gun crimes or shootings.

Firstly, the gun laws aren't strict in Chicago. Maybe to an American they are, but you can still purchase rifles, shotguns or pistols and you're also allowed concealed carry. Compared to Japan for example, which has got strict gun laws and just holding a gun can land you a life sentence, they've never had a school shooting and they have a far, far lower crime rate than America.

Not to mention, it's pretty easy to just buy a gun from a state with more lenient laws and bring it into a state like Chicago and there you go. You've completely bypassed the "strict" Chicago gun laws.

And don't compare drugs (natural plants that can be grown in your backyard very easily) to extremely complicated mechanisms that require different kinds of metals, gunpowder, ammunition and so on. You seriously can't say that because drugs are illegal and people still get them, it would be the same for guns. People get drugs because they don't hurt anyone else and they have believe that they have a right to put whatever they want into their own body. They're two completely unrelated things.

Please don't suggest teachers concealing firearms either, the first person that is going to be shot in a school shooting is the teacher so it's completely pointless for them to carry a weapon. You also have the risk of a child grabbing the teacher's weapon or it misfiring and killing a student. Teachers having weapons just isn't a good idea at all, if a teacher feels threatened by a room full of children then it's pretty clear that there is something wrong with America's gun laws.

As I've said before on topics like this, Americans can do whatever they want regarding their gun laws and it wonr affect me. But you can't claim that having more guns makes a country safer when that's clearly not the case, there's never even been a school shooting in my country and I've never seen someone with a gun besides a police officer in my life.

Tywin wrote

It's time to allow citizens to carry firearms(if they pass training and checks)

If more guns = more peace, wouldn't the US by definition be the most peaceful country on earth?

Not at all. Gun control (or lack thereof) does not have anything to do with peace. We have places on this earth with high gun ownership and low crime rate, places with low gun ownership and high crime rate, places with high gun ownership and high crime rate, and places with low gun ownership and low crime rate.

The funny thing is, anyone outside of America doesn't know that a 30 round magazine is actually ILLEGAL in a lot of places in the USA. Look at the Commifornia. All firearms have a 10 day waiting period from purchase to receiving, semi automatic guns "classified" as assault rifles as well as "high capacity" magazines cannot be sold. There is also now a tool to release magazines instead of push button.

One thing I was just thinking, do you know why America doesn't get invaded? Because the invading country isn't just worried about the US military, it's worried about the citizens with "an AR-15 behind every blade of grass".

Guns aren't the issue, people are. I clean my guns meticulously which means I tear them apart, take out every screw and clean it. Every time I do this, I look in there and every time I find the same thing. All of my firearms are purely mechanical. There is no computer in there telling it to get up and shoot. I have to physically manipulate it for it to shoot. Every year over 30k people die by being shot each year. This is a number gun haters LOVE to throw out there. 62% of those deaths are suicide which leaves us with almost 12k homicides caused by guns.

Why aren't guns an issue? Well let's look at Europe since they (mainly people from the UK) think they know all there is to know about gun facts. I'm not trying to attack anyone here, I'm just saying in every thread like this it comes up so I'll just put it in my first post. Gun-free Britain is the most violent country in Europe! Guess what? Switzerland, also a part of Europe, is in the top 10 safest countries in Europe. What's funny about that? Switzerland has very high gun ownership with relatively low crime.

Tywin wrote I support gun rights. I oppose bans on "assault weapons" and high capacity magazines, but we need to be reasonable here.
Arming everyone and the mom isn't going to solve the problem.


There are simple things that can be done that would mildly help the problem, such as universal background checks, which even the majority of NRA members support.
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You already have to get a background check on every firearm you buy... Private party sales / gun show sales are technically illegal and most states have initiatives against it (for example I-594 in WA state saying I can't even barrow your gun without a background check).

Tywin wrote I support gun rights. I oppose bans on "assault weapons" and high capacity magazines, but we need to be reasonable here.
Arming everyone and the mom isn't going to solve the problem.


There are simple things that can be done that would mildly help the problem, such as universal background checks, which even the majority of NRA members support.
[ Register or Signin to view external links. ]

I don't think that everyone should have a gun. If you do not want a gun, then you should not have to get one. But for the people who wants guns, there should not be so many restrictions.

And at least in Oklahoma, and I am pretty sure every state in the U.S., there is a federal background check that you must go through every time you buy a gun from a licensed dealer.

Since you called standard capacity magazines. "high capacity magazines", and you do not know that there is a federal background check, I am assuming that you do not know much about guns. And if you are replying to me, then please quote me. It makes it easier to respond.

Motivational wrote There's so many things wrong with trying to say that because Chicago has strict guns laws and a high crime rate, that means having strict gun laws doesn't effect the amount of gun crimes or shootings.

Firstly, the gun laws aren't strict in Chicago. Maybe to an American they are, but you can still purchase rifles, shotguns or pistols and you're also allowed concealed carry. Compared to Japan for example, which has got strict gun laws and just holding a gun can land you a life sentence, they've never had a school shooting and they have a far, far lower crime rate than America.

Not to mention, it's pretty easy to just buy a gun from a state with more lenient laws and bring it into a state like Chicago and there you go. You've completely bypassed the "strict" Chicago gun laws.

And don't compare drugs (natural plants that can be grown in your backyard very easily) to extremely complicated mechanisms that require different kinds of metals, gunpowder, ammunition and so on. You seriously can't say that because drugs are illegal and people still get them, it would be the same for guns. People get drugs because they don't hurt anyone else and they have believe that they have a right to put whatever they want into their own body. They're two completely unrelated things.

Please don't suggest teachers concealing firearms either, the first person that is going to be shot in a school shooting is the teacher so it's completely pointless for them to carry a weapon. You also have the risk of a child grabbing the teacher's weapon or it misfiring and killing a student. Teachers having weapons just isn't a good idea at all, if a teacher feels threatened by a room full of children then it's pretty clear that there is something wrong with America's gun laws.

As I've said before on topics like this, Americans can do whatever they want regarding their gun laws and it wonr affect me. But you can't claim that having more guns makes a country safer when that's clearly not the case, there's never even been a school shooting in my country and I've never seen someone with a gun besides a police officer in my life.

Here we go, just the comment I was looking for! I have to say, props for using Japan instead of the UK, haven't seen that one before.

Anyway, starting off with Chicago, it is a myth that it has the strictest gun laws that simply isn't true. Back in 2010 I'd agree (and I know you're not the one saying it is, I'm just putting this out there). Currently in Chicago, there is no open carry (same with LA and NYC), you need a FOI card (firearm owner identification card, similar in LA and NYC), you must be approved for conceal carry (like most any place in the US), and "assault weapons" are banned (same in LA and NYC). What is an "assault weapon"? Well, it's BS, but here's the actual law:



You say that "it's pretty easy to just buy a gun from a state with more lenient laws and bring it into a state like Chicago and there you go". First off, Chicago is a city, but anyway, you would have to show a drivers license from a state where those laws don't exist otherwise they will not sell to you. Even on "high capacity" (what we call standard capacity) magazines, look them up on the internet, every sight will say they can't ship to X state. Here's an example:



This was straight from Cabelas which is a well known out doors store if you want to check it out yourself.

The comparison to drugs and guns is completely viable. First off, cocain isn't a plant that grows in the wilderness, but the reason it is brought up here is because guns and drugs are fought by the same agency, the ATF (bureau of alcohol, tobacco, and firearms). Drugs are illegal and yet people still get them, and make it. The same exact thing happens with firearms.

Teachers should absolutely have firearms. In most school shootings, it's not the teacher to be shot first, it's the students because the shooter is mad at them. Not to mention that gun shots are loud, the teachers in the rooms next to the one with the shooter will hear the gun shots which puts the shooter at a tactical disadvantage. You have at the very least 2 teachers, probably more like 6+ who will hear it and at that time decide if they want to shelter in place, or if they want to be a hero. If you have two people at the door (assuming the worst being on the second floor with only 1 entry point), it would be pretty hard to get a clear shot, but you'd take of your shirt and move it back and forth getting the student to waste ammo on it until the gun is empty. On a first floor classroom with windows it would be really easy. The teachers of course would need extensive training, but I dare you to go up to a cop and take their weapon. It won't go over well, I can tell you that much.

You and your country. You're afraid of knives and I'm not (based on the biggest issue in the UK). People will kill people with what ever media they have access to. If they only have a hammer, they will kill someone with a hammer.

EDIT:
Sorry, I forgot what I was going to say about Japan, got a little too excited. Anyway, Japan has about half the population of the US (a little less), and is just under 146k total miles. Montana is just over 147k miles and hasn't had a school shooting in 20 years. When you try to compare school shootings in a country that is 146k sq miles with under 500 schools to a country that is almost 3.8 million square miles with almost 100k schools, it just doesn't work. You would have to look at individual states at that point...

Motivational wrote There's so many things wrong with trying to say that because Chicago has strict guns laws and a high crime rate, that means having strict gun laws doesn't effect the amount of gun crimes or shootings.

It is supposed to lower the crime rate, but it did not work.

Firstly, the gun laws aren't strict in Chicago. Maybe to an American they are, but you can still purchase rifles, shotguns or pistols and you're also allowed concealed carry. Compared to Japan for example, which has got strict gun laws and just holding a gun can land you a life sentence, they've never had a school shooting and they have a far, far lower crime rate than America.

I agree, Chicago does not have the most strict gun laws. Places like California have pretty strict laws. Japan is it's own country, if there people want to live that way, then let them. We Americans, enjoy out guns. America was founded with guns in mind. And yes, Japan might not have mass shootings, but they do have mass stabbings.

Not to mention, it's pretty easy to just buy a gun from a state with more lenient laws and bring it into a state like Chicago and there you go. You've completely bypassed the "strict" Chicago gun laws.

That is possible. But some states are making it where you have to be a resident of that state to buy a gun. I don't agree with this decision, but I have not been affected by it.

And don't compare drugs (natural plants that can be grown in your backyard very easily) to extremely complicated mechanisms that require different kinds of metals, gunpowder, ammunition and so on. You seriously can't say that because drugs are illegal and people still get them, it would be the same for guns. People get drugs because they don't hurt anyone else and they have believe that they have a right to put whatever they want into their own body. They're two completely unrelated things.

You are assuming that he is talking about the "natural plant" type of drugs. There are other drugs, that are much more complex. Weed should be legal, I don't see that as being a problem. And guns can be complicated, or they can be simple. It all depends on what you choose to get or make. Yes, you can make your own guns, and you can make them very simple. Drugs on their own won't hurt anybody, but neither will a gun, it is the person who is using them. For example, you could drug someone without them even knowing it, then for some reason they get pulled over by the cop, they could get a DUID charge. And that can fu** up your life. If you should be able to buy what ever drugs you choose, then I should be able to buy what ever gun I want. Guns and drugs are not completely unrelated. In a lot of cases, they are very closely related. For example, a drug deal gone bad... Someone might end up getting shot or killed.

Please don't suggest teachers concealing firearms either, the first person that is going to be shot in a school shooting is the teacher so it's completely pointless for them to carry a weapon. You also have the risk of a child grabbing the teacher's weapon or it misfiring and killing a student. Teachers having weapons just isn't a good idea at all, if a teacher feels threatened by a room full of children then it's pretty clear that there is something wrong with America's gun laws.

I do not agree with teachers having guns, but your points are ridiculous. The first person who is going to get shot, is whoever is the greatest threat. For example, a 18 year old high school quarterback is more of a threat( in most cases), then a 50 or 60 year old teacher. It is not completely pointless for teachers to have guns. I disagree with it, because I think that it will lead to unnecessary deaths. Like a teacher shooting a student of something like students fighting. I do agree with this "You also have the risk of a child grabbing the teacher's weapon or it misfiring and killing a student."

As I've said before on topics like this, Americans can do whatever they want regarding their gun laws and it wonr affect me. But you can't claim that having more guns makes a country safer when that's clearly not the case, there's never even been a school shooting in my country and I've never seen someone with a gun besides a police officer in my life.

More guns will not make a country safer. But more guns in the right hands, are much better than guns in the wrong hands.

You act like guns are horrible things, only used for horrible horrible things. When that is just not true. Most of you reply was full of misinformation and just not true. I guess that it just really makes me mad to see someone who knows nothing about guns other than a few statistics talking about them like this. You said it yourself, you have not even seen a gun other than the police.

002 wrote Here we go, just the comment I was looking for! I have to say, props for using Japan instead of the UK, haven't seen that one before.

Anyway, starting off with Chicago, it is a myth that it has the strictest gun laws that simply isn't true. Back in 2010 I'd agree (and I know you're not the one saying it is, I'm just putting this out there). Currently in Chicago, there is no open carry (same with LA and NYC), you need a FOI card (firearm owner identification card, similar in LA and NYC), you must be approved for conceal carry (like most any place in the US), and "assault weapons" are banned (same in LA and NYC). What is an "assault weapon"? Well, it's BS, but here's the actual law:

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III. CITY OF CHICAGO REGULATION RELATING TO ASSAULT WEAPONS
A. In addition to the weapons defined as assault weapons in Section 8-20-030 of the Municipal Code of Chicago, the following weapons are defined as assault weapons because the design or operation of the weapons is inappropriate for lawful use:
1. Any of the firearms, types, replicas, or duplicates in any caliber of the firearms known as:
a. Norinco, Mitchell, and Poly Technologies Avtomat Kalashnikovs (all models);
b. Action Arms Israeli Military Industries UZI and Galil;
c. Beretta AR-70 (SC-70);
d. Colt AR-15;
e. Fabrique Nationale FN/FAL, FN/LAR, and FNC;
f. SWD M-10, M-11, M-11/9, and M-12;
g. Steyr AUG;
h. INTRATEC TEC-9, TEC-DC9, and TEC-22;
i. any shotgun which contains its ammunition in a revolving cylinder, such as (but not limited to) the Street Sweeper and Striker 12; and
j. any handgun or rifle having a caliber of .50 or greater.
2. A semiautomatic rifle that has an ability to accept a detachable magazine and has one or more of the following:
a. a folding or telescoping stock;
b. a pistol grip that protrudes conspicuously beneath the action of the weapon;
c. a bayonet mount;
d. a flash suppressor or barrel having a threaded muzzle; or
e. a grenade launcher.
3. A semiautomatic pistol that has an ability to accept a detachable magazine and has one or more of the following:
a. an ammunition magazine that attaches to the pistol outside of the pistol grip;
b. a barrel having a threaded muzzle;
c. a shroud that is attached to, or partially or completely encircles the barrel, and that permits the shooter to hold the firearm with the non-trigger hand without being burned;
d. a manufactured weight of 50 ounces or more when the pistol is unloaded; or
e. a semiautomatic version of an automatic firearm.
4. A semiautomatic shotgun that has one or more of the following:
a. a folding or telescoping stock;
b. a pistol grip that protrudes conspicuously beneath the action of the weapon;
c. a fixed magazine capacity in excess of five rounds; or
d. an ability to accept a detachable magazine.
B. Except as otherwise may be required by Section 8-20-030 of the Municipal Code of Chicago, assault weapon does not include:
1. any firearm that:
a. is manually operated by bolt, pump, lever, or slide action;
b. has been made permanently inoperable; or
2. any semiautomatic rifle that cannot accept a detachable magazine that holds more than five rounds of ammunition; or
3. any semiautomatic shotgun that cannot hold more than five rounds of ammunition in a fixed or detachable magazine; or
4. any muzzle-loading rifle, muzzle-loading shotgun, or muzzle-loading pistol which is designed to use black powder or a black powder substitute and which cannot use fixed ammunition, provided that this exception shall not include any weapon which incorporates a firearm frame or receiver, any firearm which is converted into a muzzle-loading weapon, or any muzzle-loading weapon which can be readily converted to fire fixed ammunition by replacing the barrel, bolt, breechblock, or any combination thereof.