Okay, I'll try to get in this without trying to make it seem like I'm flaming you.

In my opinion, guns are not made to protect. The belief that more lax guns laws can bring more safety is honestly like saying "If everyone(qualified or not) can obtain nuclear warheads, the world will be MUCH safer." Of course a nuclear arsenal is far more violent and
...humankind threatening...but violence is violence.

Depending on where you read, you will get articles saying more mass shootings happen in gun-free zones and others saying more mass shootings happen outside gun-free zones. Whatever you want to believe, it's better simplified like this. If you were to go and rob a store, would you go and rob the store that has no cameras, no security whatsoever or go for the store that has cameras and active security on the grounds? The same can be applied to mass shootings or any crime for that matter. A person who has a blood lust will choose a place where people can't defend themselves much and are literally sitting targets. School shootings for example, children or young adults where guns are banned; what is a person expected to do in that situation to fight back? Yeah, they can barricade themselves in a room and attack at once when the shooter comes in, yeah they can throw stuff, but that's it; other than that they're sitting and running targets. Now let's say someone tries to go on a shooting spree to kill people at a firing range, how far do you think they're going to get, knowing that's an area that allows weapons and more than likely every single person there has their own firearm for protection. Also comparing nukes to a firearm is beyond an example. A single firearm will not kill thousands, hundreds of thousands or even a million people.

Obviously people use guns for different reasons. Hunting, display, but do you really feel the need to have a GUN on you at all times? Is there no other weapon? Do you not martial arts? But you know how to point a gun at someone and shoot right? There's nothing wrong with that??

This kind of confuses me with how you mention "is there no other weapon?" That makes it sound like you're asking if there's another weapon that won't kill a person, but will stop the threat. There is, only problem is a well placed stab with a knife will kill a person slower than a gun. If you're trying to go the "humane" route of not killing them, but stopping the threat, a knife as another weapon can become more "inhumane" since it will take longer to kill than a bullet would in most times. I don't know the law on tasers and whether or not civilians can have them or even in public. Pepper spray is another option yes, but if a person wanted to do harm or had the adrenaline rush, pepper spray won't really matter in close proximity. If you want to carry around a baseball bat or any blunt object, by all means, go for it, but again if we're going the "humane" route of not killing, head trauma or internal bleeding is also a slow death as opposed to a bullet in most cases. Martial arts can only do so much. If someone ran up on me with a gun or even a knife, I would rather have a fair fight with having either of those on me. You can be the best in the world when it comes to martial arts, but if you're going to start underestimating someone with a knife or even a gun; thinking "oh that person can't do anything to me" you'll be injured or dead quicker than anything.

Personally, I feel as if I'm trying to defend myself, I don't need to shoot someone. That's extreme. Suppose someone misplaces the gun and it falls into the wrong hands?

If your life depends on it, you'll have to do it. What if someone breaks into your house and is going to kill your kids, your husband/wife. You honestly think in that case it would still be "too extreme" to protect them? If someone misplaces the gun and it falls into wrong hands, then that person is incompetent. Either lock it up or keep it with you. If you somehow lose a gun on person with you, then you're really oblivious and shouldn't own a gun or anything that isn't bigger or heavier than you for that matter.

If you need to carry a weapon around at all times, it's apparent that you don't feel safe.

Again going back before, martial arts or whatever you want to use can only do so much. You don't have to be scared, paranoid or anything like that. There's being smart and having precautions. You don't want someone trying something with you. If someone runs up and pulls a gun on you, are you just supposed to sit there like a deer in headlights or try and attack, only to get shot? Pulling the trigger and a bullet hitting someone is faster than someone going for a kick or a punch. If that makes someone look like they don't feel safe or makes them seem scared, then people should just leave their doors unlocked, leave their keys in the car because "nothings going to happen anyways, no need to be smart and take precautions."

Yeah, I mean people who are qualified to use them should be able to..but who's to say they won't wake up on the wrong side of the bed one day and decide to light up a mall or something? What's the excuse then? You can't keep using the same "Guns don't kill people. People kill people".

This would be the case of someone who is mentally unfit and shouldn't even be owning a gun in the first place. If a person wakes up pissed off and the first thing that comes to mind is "Oh, I'm going to go shoot this place up" then they shouldn't even be owning a gun, I would argue they shouldn't even be owning a car at that point. There are a lot of responsible gun owners out there who don't leave their guns lying around to be handled by others, who know the gun is for protection or hunting and who aren't mentally inept enough to wake up pissed and their first thought process is to go on a shooting spree. Gun owners are in the same category of "a few people from this group has done something wrong, so they all must be bad."

All I'm saying is, weaponry in general causes nothing but trouble. It doesn't even have to be a gun, but whenever most of the homicides in the U.S are because of guns, something needs to be done. SOMETHING. Idc if it's tightening gun manufacturing or whatever it is, but I just haven't found a reason to trust them, no matter WHO is holding it.

I do agree with guns needing some more regulation. I believe in America if you're on a terror watch-list, you can still get a gun (someone correct me if I'm wrong with that.) The problem is, banning guns or putting extreme strict rules that put a block on responsible gun owners, only does the criminals a favour. A criminal or even someone who just wants to go and kill people, isn't going to do things legally. If a full-automatic gun is illegal, they don't give a shit, if they have it they'll use it for the crime, same goes for buying and owning illegal guns. IF and I mean a big if, say somehow all states make a ban that all guns have to have no more than 5 bullets in the magazine; do you honestly believe a criminal is going to abide by that, when they can go to some sort of black market and get a fully automatic gun or even a gun that is holding a 30 round magazine to do their crime with?

In my town of Port Richey Florida, I don't feel safe at all time, what with the drug dealers and violence the occures on a daily basis, and I do carry a gun with me at all times except at work where it's not permitted for me to.

Two years ago, I stopped a man from committing robbery and possibly bodily harm to another human, I walked into the corner store, I was in the back looking at snack items, and a man walked in and held a knife to the clerk, who is a long time friend. I don't know what would have happened had I not drawn my firearm, and forced this man to stand down, but, in that instance, what would you have done personally if you had no weapon? Wait for police to arrive? Possibly watched your friend die? Get stabbed yourself? As for the nuclear metaphor, yes, a nuclear weapon is a terribly menacing device, but you know what would stop me from launching a nuke in shoes such as that? Another guy with another one aimed right at me with a facial expression that says "I dare you."

More than once, a gun has saved my life, my first encounter ever was a robbery as a Publix when I was 8, a random armed citizen stopped total hell from breaking loose that day, and it showed me that carrying lethal force, and doing it the proper way, might just save a life, and might make a criminal think otherwise, and no criminal in his right mind would dare rob or attempt to harm anyone he knew was carrying a firearm.

But I seriously am wondering, what would you do in those shoes?

Let me set a scenario, you walk into the convenience store, which your friend Mark is the owner of, and you head to get snack items. A man walks in with a knife, and threatens your friends life, unless he's given money. What do you do? You're at least 30 feet from him, and he can stab your friend before you even get close enough for a physical take down.

Me personally, I'd draw my weapon, but what would you do? Call the police? You and your friend could be dead before they arrive. What would you do, in THAT instance, IMMEDIATELY, that would defuse the situation and force the attacker/robber to stand down? You answer that, with a way that would work better than drawing my firearm, that would also defuse the situation immediately, and I will consider it. Until such a way to handle that situation other than a firearm is found, I will continue to carry mine legally and within the confines of the law

I'm serious too, I offer this as a challenge, if you can think of a better way to handle it, with less variables, please tell me.

For example, you call the cops, he stabs your friend and runs away, him stabbing your friend is a variable, but I'm sure he wouldn't think that clearly staring down the barrel of a gun, so please, try to think of a better way to handle it

Ok, I'm going to go about this a different way than I usually do. So you have your opinion, and that's great.

Guns were originally made to protect (for military / militias, etc.). They have evolved much further than that and are used for hunting, self defense, fun, etc. First off, statistics prove that firearm ownership doesn't directly impact crime. We have countries with high gun ownership and high crime, countries with high gun ownership and low crime, low gun ownership and high crime, and lastly low gun ownership and low crime. You can even see this in individual states in the US, take Illinois for example. They have pretty strict gun laws and yet high crime still. Also, you can't compare a weapon of minor destruction to a weapon of mass destruction.

As far as the need to have a gun. I know I'm going to get flack for this, but as I always say it's just the better tool for the job. Say for self defense, pepper spray can be used, right? A spoon can be used instead of a shovel to dig, and smoke signals can be used instead of cell phones for communications. Can we all agree that in those two examples they are not the best tool for the job? Same thing with self defense. I work in some pretty F'ed up cities, I'm currently working nights in San Francisco. I fly everywhere I go so I don't take any of my firearms as it's a PITA to clear them in the airport, and I can't take them on my job sites. Anyway, at night in SFO it's a damn scary place. Same with Chicago, Oakland, Detroit, etc. I am a big guy, but I do not feel comfortable walking out at night, none of us do. The whole job shuts down for our lunch, carpenters, painters, and electricians usually all go to the same place at the same time because of how dangerous it is at night. Now this is where the issue is. I would rather carry a gun, but the argument is "well you can uses non lethal (pepper spray, taser, etc)". Now that's great for 1 on 1, but if you walk down some side streets, even on main streets you see the "bad guys" in groups, never by themselves. Hell we have to open the gates to get our trucks to the loading docks and we had like 10 bums rush us to try and get a place to sleep. They weren't mugging us, but they sure as hell weren't taking no for an answer and it was scary. Even if I had pepper spray I would not have used it. They would've seen me as a thread using a non lethal device and rush me. If I had a gun (still wouldn't have used it in that situation) and pulled it out, they would not rush me because it's their life on the line. Anyone who says any different doesn't know what they're talking about.

It's funny you bring up martial arts. I'm 5'10, 255 LBS. I'm not agile, and along with most of America, we're not suited for martial arts. Not to mention most of America can't afford it, and wouldn't do it. Do you know how many people here have gym memberships but never set foot in a gym? I don't know the exact number, but it's a lot. I can train for years and years in martial arts, or I can buy a gun and know the ins and outs of it in a couple months with classes. Not to mention I can keep the threat further away from me with a firearm.

I don't know how much experience you have with firearms, but you misplace your phone or you wallet, you never misplace a firearm. It should be on your person at all times, you don't set it down anywhere because it's easier to do something. You just don't.

The fact is guns don't kill people. I take apart and clean my guns meticulously and I can assure you there is no chips, not computer programming, no nothing to make it shoot on its own. I (or someone else) has to manipulate it to shoot. People kill people, they might use guns because it's easier than a knife, but it is still the person that does it. They can make a bomb with a pressure cooker as seen in the Boston bombing if they felt like it.

16k people get murdered by a person with a firearm per year. 16k out of almost 319 million. That's a VERY small number. That's 0.005% of the population. To me that's not an issue, but maybe I'm the black sheep here. According to the U.S. Center for Disease Control and Prevention, there are 3,952,841 babies born annually in the United States, equaling about 10,829 births daily. That means in two days we have more babies born than people killed by a person with a gun in an entire year.

I would also like to being to everyone's attention that there is different ammo as well. People just want to ban the scary black gun without even understanding what it shoots. For example, in THIS thread, I put up multiple kinds of ammo and asked which ammo should we get rid of. People would rather ban the bullet that is shot by a bolt action hunting rifle, but no one banned the bullet shot out of an AK-47. I didn't tell anyone what piece was shot by what for a reason. People seen a common hunting round as a threat, and not an AK-47 round.

A .22 does not do a whole lot of damage, granted with the right shot placement and being close enough to the person it can be lethal, but for the most part it's not going to kill instantly. Fun fact, at work we use actual .22 blanks in out nail guns, these will actually feed into a .22 LR gun. Anyway, some guns I don't feel are needed, for example the AR-15 chambered in .223 / 5.56 NATO. It is illegal to hunt with in most places as you need a .30 caliber or higher, but if we ban the AR-15, people will just buy the AK-47 as it does shoot a legal hunting round so it won't get us anywhere.

Where am I going with this? Who knows, the point is there's more to guns than just the outside looks and firing mechanism.

Motioncorey wrote I expect some people to disagree but it's whatever...anyways; I hate guns.

In my opinion, guns are not made to protect. The belief that more lax guns laws can bring more safety is honestly like saying "If everyone(qualified or not) can obtain nuclear warheads, the world will be MUCH safer." Of course a nuclear arsenal is far more violent and
...humankind threatening...but violence is violence.

Obviously people use guns for different reasons. Hunting, display, but do you really feel the need to have a GUN on you at all times? Is there no other weapon? Do you not martial arts? But you know how to point a gun at someone and shoot right? There's nothing wrong with that??


Personally, I feel as if I'm trying to defend myself, I don't need to shoot someone. That's extreme. Suppose someone misplaces the gun and it falls into the wrong hands?


If you need to carry a weapon around at all times, it's apparent that you don't feel safe.


Yeah, I mean people who are qualified to use them should be able to..but who's to say they won't wake up on the wrong side of the bed one day and decide to light up a mall or something? What's the excuse then? You can't keep using the same "Guns don't kill people. People kill people".


All I'm saying is, weaponry in general causes nothing but trouble. It doesn't even have to be a gun, but whenever most of the homicides in the U.S are because of guns, something needs to be done. SOMETHING. Idc if it's tightening gun manufacturing or whatever it is, but I just haven't found a reason to trust them, no matter WHO is holding it.

Obviously saying "No guns" will be as effective as "no Marijuana"...



A pigment of my opinion.

The problem is nowa days is youths who think they are BIG because they carry an armed weapon round with them.. guns shouldn't only be purchased with a lisence for a shooting range or pigeon shooting. All these wanna be gangsters walking round with glocks should be banged up and maybe learn a lesson or two. I've been there done it all not something to be proud of!!

SM_Lobbys wrote

Motioncorey wrote I expect some people to disagree but it's whatever...anyways; I hate guns.

In my opinion, guns are not made to protect. The belief that more lax guns laws can bring more safety is honestly like saying "If everyone(qualified or not) can obtain nuclear warheads, the world will be MUCH safer." Of course a nuclear arsenal is far more violent and
...humankind threatening...but violence is violence.

Obviously people use guns for different reasons. Hunting, display, but do you really feel the need to have a GUN on you at all times? Is there no other weapon? Do you not martial arts? But you know how to point a gun at someone and shoot right? There's nothing wrong with that??


Personally, I feel as if I'm trying to defend myself, I don't need to shoot someone. That's extreme. Suppose someone misplaces the gun and it falls into the wrong hands?


If you need to carry a weapon around at all times, it's apparent that you don't feel safe.


Yeah, I mean people who are qualified to use them should be able to..but who's to say they won't wake up on the wrong side of the bed one day and decide to light up a mall or something? What's the excuse then? You can't keep using the same "Guns don't kill people. People kill people".


All I'm saying is, weaponry in general causes nothing but trouble. It doesn't even have to be a gun, but whenever most of the homicides in the U.S are because of guns, something needs to be done. SOMETHING. Idc if it's tightening gun manufacturing or whatever it is, but I just haven't found a reason to trust them, no matter WHO is holding it.

Obviously saying "No guns" will be as effective as "no Marijuana"...



A pigment of my opinion.

The problem is nowa days is youths who think they are BIG because they carry an armed weapon round with them.. guns shouldn't only be purchased with a lisence for a shooting range or pigeon shooting. All these wanna be gangsters walking round with glocks should be banged up and maybe learn a lesson or two. I've been there done it all not something to be proud of!!

I find nothing wrong with youths carrying guns if they are of legal age. I'm 18 years old, and I've had multiple guns since I turned 18. I think the bigger issue is that these people have no clue how to use firearms. I'm not going to directly compare firearms to vehicles, but in the US you have to go through a driving course if you want to drive. Some places you can get a license at 18 with I believe no tests, but with guns there's nothing. It's just a background check and checking your ID. I firmly believe that there should be classes that need to be taken to get a license to buy a firearm. This I believe will make everyone happy. It will make some people not even want to get a firearm because they don't want to take classes, but when they do take the classes they can know their weapon in and out. They can know how to use it, when to use it, and why to use it.

One thing I really want an answer to is something so simple, yet no one wants to answer it. When a drunk driver hits and kills someone, do we blame the alcohol, or the driver? We blame the driver, yet when someone shoots up a school or mall, we blame the gun. Why?

002 wrote

SM_Lobbys wrote

Motioncorey wrote I expect some people to disagree but it's whatever...anyways; I hate guns.

In my opinion, guns are not made to protect. The belief that more lax guns laws can bring more safety is honestly like saying "If everyone(qualified or not) can obtain nuclear warheads, the world will be MUCH safer." Of course a nuclear arsenal is far more violent and
...humankind threatening...but violence is violence.

Obviously people use guns for different reasons. Hunting, display, but do you really feel the need to have a GUN on you at all times? Is there no other weapon? Do you not martial arts? But you know how to point a gun at someone and shoot right? There's nothing wrong with that??


Personally, I feel as if I'm trying to defend myself, I don't need to shoot someone. That's extreme. Suppose someone misplaces the gun and it falls into the wrong hands?


If you need to carry a weapon around at all times, it's apparent that you don't feel safe.


Yeah, I mean people who are qualified to use them should be able to..but who's to say they won't wake up on the wrong side of the bed one day and decide to light up a mall or something? What's the excuse then? You can't keep using the same "Guns don't kill people. People kill people".


All I'm saying is, weaponry in general causes nothing but trouble. It doesn't even have to be a gun, but whenever most of the homicides in the U.S are because of guns, something needs to be done. SOMETHING. Idc if it's tightening gun manufacturing or whatever it is, but I just haven't found a reason to trust them, no matter WHO is holding it.

Obviously saying "No guns" will be as effective as "no Marijuana"...



A pigment of my opinion.

The problem is nowa days is youths who think they are BIG because they carry an armed weapon round with them.. guns shouldn't only be purchased with a lisence for a shooting range or pigeon shooting. All these wanna be gangsters walking round with glocks should be banged up and maybe learn a lesson or two. I've been there done it all not something to be proud of!!

One thing I really want an answer to is something so simple, yet no one wants to answer it. When a drunk driver hits and kills someone, do we blame the alcohol, or the driver? We blame the driver, yet when someone shoots up a school or mall, we blame the gun. Why?

I can't answer that with what everyone may think, but I can answer it with what I feel may be the reason for people getting that way.

There are people out there who obviously fear a gun, some people think it should be out right banned or never created in the first place. Some will see it as an unneeded object, which is only used to kill. You can't change their mind on that. Now switch over to alcohol, people see it as a stress reliever, something to go have fun with and something generally accepted around the world, except for parts where it's against culture or religion. People know or at least have some understanding of the consequences of drinking alcohol. So with all that in mind, I think people get this idea with the two:

If someone gets drunk and decides to drive home, gets in an accident and kills someone or multiple people, a lot of people will see it as that person made a mistake or lack of judgement while intoxicated. Some will outright blame the driver instead of trying to give any head room of it was both the driver and the alcohol. That's a fair argument, sure. When you're drunk you're not all there, but there are still some people who don't even really get drunk, just buzzed and still swear on their life they can get home safely. Now back to guns, yeah if someone shoots up a school, the gun is instantly blamed because "guns are scary." As you already mentioned in a previous post, there is no chip, no computer software in a gun available to the public, guns that have that stuff are strictly military and still probably in the testing phase (I've only seen that marksman rifle that can track targets, but that's it.) Going back on things to blame, if someone goes on a stabbing spree, no one calls on a ban for a knives, if someone drives into a crowd full of people no one calls for cars to be banned, guns however, are thrown right into trying to be banned. I think people's logic when they blame the person for other instances, but will blame a gun instead of the person is this. "We need cars to go places, we need knives to cut our food or use for camping/survival, we need our alcohol because we're dependent on it, but no one needs a gun unless you're police or military" And even then I wouldn't put it pass some people to think neither should have any, but those are a special type of people.

The thing is, a gun isn't the worst thing out there. People always try to make it seem like since guns were introduced, that's what has been killing more people in the world; when they can go back and look at times before guns were even invented such as medieval times and see the tools used to kill people and how if a gun was present at those times, I'm sure almost everyone would ask for a death by a gun over what was used then.

TL;DR

People will blame a person for a death, if the object used is seen as something needed (Cars, knife, alcohol, will almost always warrant the blame on the person.) Others will blame a gun for a death if they see it as not needed in the world or have a mass fear of guns.

Right now, I'm working traffic at a construction zone. I have 4% batter left on my phone and I am using it to post this.

You have the right to an opinion like everyone else. But the only way to stop a criminal with a gun is with a gun. People have the constitutional right to defend themselves and their property in this country. No matter what democrats do, firearms will never be banned. It's simple as that.

Once I return home I'll further comment on this.

Glock- wrote Right now, I'm working traffic at a construction zone. I have 4% batter left on my phone and I am using it to post this.

You have the right to an opinion like everyone else. But the only way to stop a criminal with a gun is with a gun. People have the constitutional right to defend themselves and their property in this country. No matter what democrats do, firearms will never be banned. It's simple as that.

Once I return home I'll further comment on this.

Be safe out there!

Motioncorey wrote I expect some people to disagree but it's whatever...anyways; I hate guns.

Why did you even make this post, there was a post by Glock in this section talking about guns.

The belief that more lax guns laws can bring more safety is honestly like saying "If everyone(qualified or not) can obtain nuclear warheads, the world will be MUCH safer." Of course a nuclear arsenal is far more violent and
...humankind threatening...but violence is violence.

Im going to use the U.S. for example for the rest of this post. The U.S. has millions of guns. It would be near impossible to get rid of all the guns. And even if you did get rid of them, more can be made.

Our gun laws are pretty strict as they are. They may not be as strict as other countries, but we still have some pretty strict laws. Strict gun laws are not going to help most people.

Criminals do not care about gun laws, they will break the laws, it is kind of what they do. Strict gun laws just stop people who want to protect them self's from protecting them self's. I do think that we need to have some laws. A good majority of the laws that we already have are good. But some of them could go away.

Obviously people use guns for different reasons. Hunting, display, but do you really feel the need to have a GUN on you at all times?

I can not legally carry a gun with me right now, but as soon as I can, I am going to carry one or more. Guns have been used to stop millions of crimes.

Is there no other weapon?

Sure there is. But have you ever heard the saying "Don't bring a knife to a gun fight"? There is a reason for that saying. In most cases, the person who has the gun is going to be much better of then the person with the knife.

Sure, you could use pepper spray, but then again, that is not going to be as effective as guns. What if the have glasses, what if you miss, etc.

Do you not martial arts?

No, I do not martial arts. And many people do not martial arts. Some people are incapable of martial arts. And martial arts is not always as effective as a gun.

But you know how to point a gun at someone and shoot right? There's nothing wrong with that??

As long as you use guns for the right reason, things like self protection, then there is nothing wrong with that.

Personally, I feel as if I'm trying to defend myself, I don't need to shoot someone.

Good for you. But I am not you. I consider my life very valuable, and I want the very best tools that I can get my hands one to protect myself, my family, my property, etc.

That's extreme. Suppose someone misplaces the gun and it falls into the wrong hands?

How does someone misplace their gun?

If you need to carry a weapon around at all times, it's apparent that you don't feel safe.

I live in a "okay" area, but it is not the best. I live a few blocks away from what I would call the ghetto. And houses and business get broke into all of the time. I do not feel safe. And even if I did feel safe, there is no reason to not be prepared.

Yeah, I mean people who are qualified to use them should be able to..but who's to say they won't wake up on the wrong side of the bed one day and decide to light up a mall or something?

Absolutely nothing. But someone with a gun can stop someone else with a gun. And I have read the statistics about the people who could stop crimes, but do not. But not everyone has to pull out their guns and start shooting. It only takes one person.

What's the excuse then?

There is no excuse.

You can't keep using the same "Guns don't kill people. People kill people"

And why not? The police do not go and arrest/charge a gun for killing someone. They arrest/charge the person who used the gun. The gun is just another tool. The same goes for knifes and any other tool.

All I'm saying is, weaponry in general causes nothing but trouble.

That is just not true. Have you ever shot a gun? Do you know how much fun it is to go and shoot at a range and try to improve your aim? There are many more reasons for having guns. Also, you do not even have to shoot a gun to stop some crimes. Sometimes just the criminal seeing or knowing that you have a gun is enough to scare them off.

It doesn't even have to be a gun, but whenever most of the homicides in the U.S are because of guns, something needs to be done.

And many things have been done. It is pretty hard to obtain a gun legally. But then again, criminals do not care about laws, they do what ever they want.

SOMETHING. Idc if it's tightening gun manufacturing or whatever it is, but I just haven't found a reason to trust them, no matter WHO is holding it.

Do you not trust your police, or your military? Surely you would trust the people who risk their life's to make yours better.

And while banning guns might decrease gun violence, that does not mean that crime will decrease.