MrWednesday wrote
If the issue of abortion is judged by how an angry Asst. Principal reacts to a couple of teenagers holding inflammatory signs and the arguments they make then it's no wonder the general public gets a skewed view of it.

I agree with everything you said, although, the post was meant for people to comment on who they believe is in the right or in the wrong in regards to this confrontation based on the context that I provided as well as what is seen in the video.

UPDATE: added a petition that you can sign if you are on Dr. Ruff's side and don't want him to be fired from his job and/or to face charges.

Saiko wrote However, the protesters in my opinion were wrong to then start preaching religion saying "You need to turn to Jesus Christ". I felt that to be wrong, as in he is dictating to the principle that he needs to find Jesus.

How is it wrong for him to say what he said?

I looked at your profile to try and find more information, but all I found was your favorite team was "Manchester United". So I am going to give you the benefit of the doubt, and I will tell you what the first amendment is....

"Amendment I. Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances."

We have a thing called freedom of speech. You can say what ever you want to say, within a certain limit. So you can go and say f*** the police, but you can not go to a movie theater and yell fire.

While I do not agree with what the protesters did... They did not do anything wrong.

Id be pissed to if someone was preaching religion at me like that.

No body was forcing the principal to stay and listen. He could and should have left and called the police like he said he was going to do. And once again, we have the first amendment.

The protester says "Its not fiction, its truth", again that is a matter of opinion and belief, but he is wrong to say that.

I completely agree.

The principle asks them to "Leave him alone". But the douche with the camera keeps trying to antagonise him.

Now this is where I have lost you. If anybody should leave anybody alone it is the principle. He is the one that approached the protesters. They were not doing anything wrong. And since he has different views, he went and tried to mess with them. They were not antagonizing anyone.

Correct me if I am wrong, but I do not remember the protesters going and harassing anyone, or assaulting anyone.

MrWednesday wrote I think that something needs to be pointed out on this topic.

These aren't professional debaters.

Humans are generally better at writing what they want to say as opposed to verbally espousing a position.
We, as the audience, should recognize this and view these people in a charitable light.
This isn't them at their intellectual best, it's not them at their calmest and most reasonable.

I agree, but only to a certain extent. Just because you are not at your "intellectual best" does not mean that every thing you said should be take lightly. If he said something, then that is what he means. Sure if he had more time to think about it, he would probably say something, but that is not what he did.

We also need to be aware that they are going to be using words and phrases which shouldn't be taken literally.
For example, the Asst. Principal using the word "Hell" and phrases like "Go to Hell." He states that he doesn't believe in Hell, so it's obvious that he is using this phrase to mean "Get lost."
It's not the smartest choice of words to use when debating Christians, but like I said, this isn't him or them at their intellectual best.

I would normally agree, but not in this situation. He told them to go to hell, where they are(referring to the babies). "Get lost" does not fit in right there. He knew what he said. And when he said what he did, he also pointed down. I have looked at the video several times, and I know that he was pointing to the posters, but some people might just think he was pointing down to hell.

When we are writing we delete what we just wrote and replace it with no issues. We can't do this when we speak, it's up to the audience to recognize when this has happened if it isn't pointed out in a "Sorry, what I mean is..." kind of way, which it won't be here because the guy isn't thinking straight.

If he was wrong, then he should have corrected him self, other wise I am going to comment on what he said. Just because he changes his views later on in the video, does not mean that he did not mean what he said earlier.

Overall, I think the Asst. Principal was right on the substance of the encounter, but wrong in how he acted, and wrong in his judgement of how legal their protest was. I'm not educated in US laws regarding that kind of thing, but I'm guessing that they were allowed to protest there, and if they weren't then I would be more angry with the laws than them.

In the beginning of the video, the principal says something about them being on what I think is the school lawn, then they move. At that point, they are not committing any crime and are doing nothing wrong.

What I find more annoying is that these protesters film themselves doing this kind of stuff and making their amazing points as though they are professional debaters.
There are plenty of actual debates out there regarding abortion with far more learned people on the subject, both philosophically and biologically.

Is there something wrong with filming? What if he decided to assault them even more? It is a good thing to record.

If the issue of abortion is judged by how an angry Asst. Principal reacts to a couple of teenagers holding inflammatory signs and the arguments they make then it's no wonder the general public gets a skewed view of it.

I get what you are trying to say, but I do not understand how you can get a skewed view. It is like a coin, there are only two sides.

MikeStaysWoke wrote

MrWednesday wrote
If the issue of abortion is judged by how an angry Asst. Principal reacts to a couple of teenagers holding inflammatory signs and the arguments they make then it's no wonder the general public gets a skewed view of it.

I agree with everything you said, although, the post was meant for people to comment on who they believe is in the right or in the wrong in regards to this confrontation based on the context that I provided as well as what is seen in the video.

UPDATE: added a petition that you can sign if you are on Dr. Ruff's side and don't want him to be fired from his job and/or to face charges.

I do not think he should be fired for his views on abortions. But he did assault the protesters and that should be considered. Maybe just give him a ticket or arrest him for assault, then let him go back to his job.

Losing a job can completely mess someone up. In his mind he was probably protecting them, but at the end of the day, assault is assault.

Continuous wrote I agree, but only to a certain extent. Just because you are not at your "intellectual best" does not mean that every thing you said should be take lightly. If he said something, then that is what he means. Sure if he had more time to think about it, he would probably say something, but that is not what he did.

If he was wrong, then he should have corrected him self, other wise I am going to comment on what he said. Just because he changes his views later on in the video, does not mean that he did not mean what he said earlier.

Not lightly, charitably. There is a difference and it isn't what you did. I was specifically talking about when he says, "There isn't a holocaust happening in America" and then said "If you want to talk about a holocaust happening go to the inner city and talk to the poor and underprivileged."
You said that this was a contradiction, rather than addressing the substance of what he meant. That is not charitable. That is dodging his point as much as he dodged theirs.

If he said something, then that is what he means.

This is where we disagree fundamentally. In situations like this people don't always say what they mean and taking everything they say absolutely literally is a surefire way to misunderstand someone's point. A contradiction is uncharitably viewed as such but charitably it is viewed as a thought evolving in real time.

You'll see in a moment that I will appear to contradict myself on another point. If this were a verbal debate you would be throwing out the substance of what I say and focusing only on the contradiction which would make you right on a technicality, but maybe wrong overall.
Most people would rather be right overall and wrong on a technicality because of a slight contradiction.

I would normally agree, but not in this situation. He told them to go to hell, where they are(referring to the babies). "Get lost" does not fit in right there. He knew what he said. And when he said what he did, he also pointed down. I have looked at the video several times, and I know that he was pointing to the posters, but some people might just think he was pointing down to hell.

Yes, he told them to go to Hell where the babies are because he wanted to be inflammatory. Not because he actually believes in Hell.
Contradictions are logically inconsistent which makes the person making them sound stupid, but he wasn't contradicting himself.
You are taking only the words he used and dissecting them rather than considering his motivations and intent in the meaning behind those words.
He uses the phrase Go to Hell to mean get lost and to be inflammatory, so maybe it was a good choice of words to use when confronting Christians if his intention was to annoy them, which I think it was.

What I find more annoying is that these protesters film themselves doing this kind of stuff and making their amazing points as though they are professional debaters.
There are plenty of actual debates out there regarding abortion with far more learned people on the subject, both philosophically and biologically.

Is there something wrong with filming? What if he decided to assault them even more? It is a good thing to record.

No, I said I have a problem with them filming as though they are experts on the issue and making great points which deserve to be considered by the world, and I'm talking about protests at large, not just this case or on this issue alone.
Legally there is nothing wrong with filming.

I get what you are trying to say, but I do not understand how you can get a skewed view. It is like a coin, there are only two sides.

There aren't only two sides when it comes to abortion. There are maybe four big groups that people fall into.

- Abortion is completely wrong from the point of conception.
- Abortion is wrong after 23-25 weeks or so.
- Abortion is only OK if the fetus will have severe birth defects, endanger the life of the mother, or in cases of rape.
- Abortion is fine and should be encouraged.

These kinds of encounters reduce the abortion debate to a few people yelling at each other, making contradictory points like you have stated, using flawed rhetoric which hasn't been thought out, and adding a political or religious spin to the issue.

Continuous wrote

Saiko wrote However, the protesters in my opinion were wrong to then start preaching religion saying "You need to turn to Jesus Christ". I felt that to be wrong, as in he is dictating to the principle that he needs to find Jesus.

How is it wrong for him to say what he said?
I will tell you what the first amendment is....

"Amendment I. Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances."
We have a thing called freedom of speech. You can say what ever you want to say, within a certain limit.
While I do not agree with what the protesters did... They did not do anything wrong.

This seems to be an issue that needs to be cleared up.

When we talk about them doing things wrong, you are assuming that we mean legally.
He means ethically. Even tactically for a debate it's wrong.

Telling a gay man who is obviously not in the least bit bothered by abortions to find Jesus is wrong because it's just dumb.

I didn't really watch the whole video, just skipped around some parts, I landed on 16:38 and I'm not going to continue any further. The shit head literally compared abortions to the Holocaust that happened in Nazi Germany....what? Abortions are a choice unless you live in a place where you will be put to death for having one or are trapped in some religious choke hold family. Pretty sure the Holocaust and the deaths that followed suit weren't by choice.

If the whole video is them trying to preach bullshit like at 16:38 then it's safe to say they're there so others can acknowledge them because they're in need of attention. That or they need the ego boost for the day from the few people who stop and listen to what they say.

Not going to argue my points on abortion rights or religious views. I see no point in arguing with a religious person as they will always throw the same thing of "God does this, God does that." Not going to waste my time with whether abortion is murder or not, due some people thinking "it's alive" when those same people still eat meat and/or plants and the same argument can be applied that both the animal and the plant were once upon a time alive before you ate it; which could be seen as a murder if we want to use that sort of logic and go that route.

pleb wrote

Synopsis:

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Recently, at a high school in my school district, the Downingtown STEM Academy, students from Conestoga High school, a nearby high school, who were preaching Christianity and protesting abortion outside the school were aggressively confronted by the assistant principle of STEM for doing so, Dr. Ruff. The assistant principle is currently on administrative leave/suspended for his actions, and only time will tell what the charges, if any, brought against him will be. He is seen violating school code of conduct in various ways. Keep in mind that the school, which they attend and are outside of, is a selective science-based public school, so it is obvious why so many students complained about the protest to the assistant principle, causing him to confront the students participating in it. Apparently posters the anti-abortionists were using were graphic and disturbed many students.
Here is a picture of the posters. Warning: view at your advisory. Pictures may be disturbing.

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There is controversy over whether it was moral for them to be protesting in the location they did:
"Leave these innocent high schoolers alone and get a life. My sister goes here and said there were inappropriate and graphic posters making everyone there feel uncomfortable. This isn't the place for that, they are merely high schoolers trying to get an education." -Chandler Scott, youtube comment

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Many students are very supportive of Dr. Ruff:
"I would just like to show my appreciation for our assistant principal Dr. Ruff. Throughout his career, he encouraged students to be themselves and continuously supported STEM's student body. He told me that he wouldn't trade the world for us, his students, when I was expressing how thankful I was that he is open about his identity and struggles. When I got my first Saturday detention, he told me that everyone has made mistakes and sometimes the mistakes come with punishment. He was able to console my anxiety in this time and assure me it was normal for mistakes to be made so that we could learn from them. He has become such an important part in STEM's environment. Without his presence I'm concerned for the future of our school." -anonymous, youtube comment

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However, many people are supportive of the anti-abortionists:
"No permission was needed. [to record/protest] We are on a public sidewalk. Great job Kids!! Exposure of the Holocaust of our nation needs to continue!!I am sadden that people are allowed to be around children like this man is. Well that's public school for you. I am glad he was put on Administrative Leave". -Holly Crain, youtube comment

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I have attached the petition below which you can sign if do not want Dr. Ruff to be fired and/or to face charges:

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Watch the video and voice your opinion below.

MAJOR UPDATE: THE KIDS WERE ON FOX NEWS BEING INTERVIEWED BY TUCKER CARLSON

idk what i believe in