ikhalifaai wrote

Erudite wrote

ikhalifaai wrote

Erudite wrote

ikhalifaai wrote No it won't happen. Listen to how absurd and stupid it sounds. If there were a god I'm certain there'd be solid proof of it, there's not. Shit like the ten commandments were used back in those times as rules/laws, things like that were meant to control people and they still do evidently. It's basically saying if you obey everything we tell you, you will be floated up to heaven, you will live forever, your loved ones who have died will be resurrected, etc..

If you believe that you're obviously not that smart, I genuinely think that if you believe in Religion you have some sort of mental health condition. Already know I'll get downvoted so, INB4 downvotes.

If there were a god I'm certain there'd be solid proof of it, there's not.

While I understand that the burden of proof lies on the person making the positive claim - I.E: I tell you that Unicorns are real, now I have to prove that they are real - I find the notion that God would have been proven to exist by now folly.

As we are discussing the God of Christianity the main principle behind this belief is faith.
The purpose of Earth is for God to see who is faithful and who succumbs to sin.
If he made his presence known to humans then faith would become an irrelevant factor as everyone would believe.

Unfortunately this argument can work against the God of Christianity as he allowed a few hundred to see proof of his existence before they died throughout the Bible.
It is easy to say that they were the luckiest people to ever walk this Earth if the story is true.

As for Religion being a mental health issue, this is quite an extraordinary claim, and I think it has little basis.
A person's religious belief says nothing about their intelligence or acumen, it only gives an insight into their capacity for faith, something we all have.
A more harsh critic of Religion might replace faith with illusion, but that is also something we all have a capacity for.

I agree with what you're saying for the most part, someone says one thing, someone else counters it.

It's an endless cycle.

I personally believe it is a mental health issue. It gets drilled into people as children and they carry that into their adulthood life, believing everything they've been taught is truth, as you do when you're a child.

Why is it that when you see someone on a T.V show saying they've had contact with aliens, they've seen big foot or some other crazy theory, you think they're a loony (I'm sure most people think that) and it's always some crazy looking hill billy but we live in a society where people believe in an invisible man and the agnostics don't know what to believe and people find that normal behaviour? Because it's been drilled into people's heads at a young age.

If our whole generation told our kids Santa was real and led them into adulthood believing that they would still believe it. We'd have to make up an excuse though, like all religions, why Santa isn't visible and why he stopped delivering presents. We could tell them he's up in the sky too and will come down in centuries and centuries to give them all presents, only if they've been good though.

I don't think God is analogous with Santa, bigfoot, or aliens for one main reason.
God provides an easy answer to one of the fundamental questions about existence.
None of these other things do.

I think it is this answer which drives people to believe in God, whereas a belief in bigfoot usually comes from an encounter in the woods, or belief in aliens usually comes from a drunken night out.

I'm not saying that Religion isn't lazy, simple, or without logic. Only that it is an understandable reaction to a world seemingly without meaning and not a mental health issue, as you put it.

Yeah I kind of agree but the point I'm getting at is we deem people crazy that believe in the things I've mentioned even though encountering aliens is far more likely than god being real. It shouldn't matter if they're looking for the answers imo.

Imo people should stop looking for the answers of how it all started and focus on living their own life instead of worrying about sinning and all that nonsense. God will never be proven to be real and to people that say he'll never be proven to be fake, that's true. I've seen a half spider half horse once, it died and disappeared, that too can't be proved as being fake either.

The big bang created the universe, that's how it all began.

Perhaps we should simply stop deeming people crazy just because they claim to see something, and instead attempt to convince them that they are under a misapprehension.
All humans are susceptible to them, some more than others evidently.

I think we agree with each other for the most part. I wouldn't be as blunt about it all though.

Erudite wrote

-MMA- wrote Yup, classic illogical responses! If you're too scared to look for categorical evidence than you're too scared to find the truth!

Excellent rebuttal.
You start the debate by telling me to look for further information.
I reply showing that I have. You tell me to look again.
Why don't you tell me what I'm missing?

You're missing the strength and courage to seek the truth. You spend all this time closed minded trying to disprove Christianity through the Bible, in my opinion the Bible is just the basics, Categorical evidence requires the want to find the truth not trying it out and seeing if it works or not, it is not necessarily hallucinations He works in ways that fit us all. For example, if I had a hallucination I probably wouldn't of believed it so I received mine through mental messages, this is why we Christians are so confident we are right.

-MMA- wrote

Erudite wrote

-MMA- wrote Yup, classic illogical responses! If you're too scared to look for categorical evidence than you're too scared to find the truth!

Excellent rebuttal.
You start the debate by telling me to look for further information.
I reply showing that I have. You tell me to look again.
Why don't you tell me what I'm missing?

You're missing the strength and courage to seek the truth. You spend all this time closed minded trying to disprove Christianity through the Bible, in my opinion the Bible is just the basics, Categorical evidence requires the want to find the truth not trying it out and seeing if it works or not, it is not necessarily hallucinations He works in ways that fit us all. For example, if I had a hallucination I probably wouldn't of believed it so I received mine through mental messages, this is why we Christians are so confident we are right.

That is hardly a compelling argument.

And you're basically taking the stance that all Christians should take.
'I can't prove it, you have to find out for yourself.'
Just add on to that, 'and I'll keep it all to myself.' and we have no problems.

and "Categorical evidence requires the want to find the truth, not trying it out and seeing if it works or not"
That's exactly what categorical evidence is.

ikhalifaai wrote

Erudite wrote

ikhalifaai wrote

Erudite wrote

ikhalifaai wrote No it won't happen. Listen to how absurd and stupid it sounds. If there were a god I'm certain there'd be solid proof of it, there's not. Shit like the ten commandments were used back in those times as rules/laws, things like that were meant to control people and they still do evidently. It's basically saying if you obey everything we tell you, you will be floated up to heaven, you will live forever, your loved ones who have died will be resurrected, etc..

If you believe that you're obviously not that smart, I genuinely think that if you believe in Religion you have some sort of mental health condition. Already know I'll get downvoted so, INB4 downvotes.

If there were a god I'm certain there'd be solid proof of it, there's not.

While I understand that the burden of proof lies on the person making the positive claim - I.E: I tell you that Unicorns are real, now I have to prove that they are real - I find the notion that God would have been proven to exist by now folly.

As we are discussing the God of Christianity the main principle behind this belief is faith.
The purpose of Earth is for God to see who is faithful and who succumbs to sin.
If he made his presence known to humans then faith would become an irrelevant factor as everyone would believe.

Unfortunately this argument can work against the God of Christianity as he allowed a few hundred to see proof of his existence before they died throughout the Bible.
It is easy to say that they were the luckiest people to ever walk this Earth if the story is true.

As for Religion being a mental health issue, this is quite an extraordinary claim, and I think it has little basis.
A person's religious belief says nothing about their intelligence or acumen, it only gives an insight into their capacity for faith, something we all have.
A more harsh critic of Religion might replace faith with illusion, but that is also something we all have a capacity for.

I agree with what you're saying for the most part, someone says one thing, someone else counters it.

It's an endless cycle.

I personally believe it is a mental health issue. It gets drilled into people as children and they carry that into their adulthood life, believing everything they've been taught is truth, as you do when you're a child.

Why is it that when you see someone on a T.V show saying they've had contact with aliens, they've seen big foot or some other crazy theory, you think they're a loony (I'm sure most people think that) and it's always some crazy looking hill billy but we live in a society where people believe in an invisible man and the agnostics don't know what to believe and people find that normal behaviour? Because it's been drilled into people's heads at a young age.

If our whole generation told our kids Santa was real and led them into adulthood believing that they would still believe it. We'd have to make up an excuse though, like all religions, why Santa isn't visible and why he stopped delivering presents. We could tell them he's up in the sky too and will come down in centuries and centuries to give them all presents, only if they've been good though.

I don't think God is analogous with Santa, bigfoot, or aliens for one main reason.
God provides an easy answer to one of the fundamental questions about existence.
None of these other things do.

I think it is this answer which drives people to believe in God, whereas a belief in bigfoot usually comes from an encounter in the woods, or belief in aliens usually comes from a drunken night out.

I'm not saying that Religion isn't lazy, simple, or without logic. Only that it is an understandable reaction to a world seemingly without meaning and not a mental health issue, as you put it.

Yeah I kind of agree but the point I'm getting at is we deem people crazy that believe in the things I've mentioned even though encountering aliens is far more likely than god being real. It shouldn't matter if they're looking for the answers imo.

Imo people should stop looking for the answers of how it all started and focus on living their own life instead of worrying about sinning and all that nonsense. God will never be proven to be real and to people that say he'll never be proven to be fake, that's true. I've seen a half spider half horse once, it died and disappeared, that too can't be proved as being fake either.

The big bang created the universe, that's how it all began.

My scientific take on god and religion is, The Big Bang was created by SOMETHING, some material, some matter, some type of energy. It didnt JUST HAPPEN out of no where. Nothing can just produce and form on its own. Matter cannot form without other matter. Therefore something had to start out and create the first form of matter, or energy in the universe to create the big bang.

God created the Big Bang as he said "Let there be light".

This is my scientific take on christianity.

XeLoyal wrote

ikhalifaai wrote

Erudite wrote

ikhalifaai wrote

Erudite wrote

ikhalifaai wrote No it won't happen. Listen to how absurd and stupid it sounds. If there were a god I'm certain there'd be solid proof of it, there's not. Shit like the ten commandments were used back in those times as rules/laws, things like that were meant to control people and they still do evidently. It's basically saying if you obey everything we tell you, you will be floated up to heaven, you will live forever, your loved ones who have died will be resurrected, etc..

If you believe that you're obviously not that smart, I genuinely think that if you believe in Religion you have some sort of mental health condition. Already know I'll get downvoted so, INB4 downvotes.

If there were a god I'm certain there'd be solid proof of it, there's not.

While I understand that the burden of proof lies on the person making the positive claim - I.E: I tell you that Unicorns are real, now I have to prove that they are real - I find the notion that God would have been proven to exist by now folly.

As we are discussing the God of Christianity the main principle behind this belief is faith.
The purpose of Earth is for God to see who is faithful and who succumbs to sin.
If he made his presence known to humans then faith would become an irrelevant factor as everyone would believe.

Unfortunately this argument can work against the God of Christianity as he allowed a few hundred to see proof of his existence before they died throughout the Bible.
It is easy to say that they were the luckiest people to ever walk this Earth if the story is true.

As for Religion being a mental health issue, this is quite an extraordinary claim, and I think it has little basis.
A person's religious belief says nothing about their intelligence or acumen, it only gives an insight into their capacity for faith, something we all have.
A more harsh critic of Religion might replace faith with illusion, but that is also something we all have a capacity for.

I agree with what you're saying for the most part, someone says one thing, someone else counters it.

It's an endless cycle.

I personally believe it is a mental health issue. It gets drilled into people as children and they carry that into their adulthood life, believing everything they've been taught is truth, as you do when you're a child.

Why is it that when you see someone on a T.V show saying they've had contact with aliens, they've seen big foot or some other crazy theory, you think they're a loony (I'm sure most people think that) and it's always some crazy looking hill billy but we live in a society where people believe in an invisible man and the agnostics don't know what to believe and people find that normal behaviour? Because it's been drilled into people's heads at a young age.

If our whole generation told our kids Santa was real and led them into adulthood believing that they would still believe it. We'd have to make up an excuse though, like all religions, why Santa isn't visible and why he stopped delivering presents. We could tell them he's up in the sky too and will come down in centuries and centuries to give them all presents, only if they've been good though.

I don't think God is analogous with Santa, bigfoot, or aliens for one main reason.
God provides an easy answer to one of the fundamental questions about existence.
None of these other things do.

I think it is this answer which drives people to believe in God, whereas a belief in bigfoot usually comes from an encounter in the woods, or belief in aliens usually comes from a drunken night out.

I'm not saying that Religion isn't lazy, simple, or without logic. Only that it is an understandable reaction to a world seemingly without meaning and not a mental health issue, as you put it.

Yeah I kind of agree but the point I'm getting at is we deem people crazy that believe in the things I've mentioned even though encountering aliens is far more likely than god being real. It shouldn't matter if they're looking for the answers imo.

Imo people should stop looking for the answers of how it all started and focus on living their own life instead of worrying about sinning and all that nonsense. God will never be proven to be real and to people that say he'll never be proven to be fake, that's true. I've seen a half spider half horse once, it died and disappeared, that too can't be proved as being fake either.

The big bang created the universe, that's how it all began.

My scientific take on god and religion is, The Big Bang was created by SOMETHING, some material, some matter, some type of energy. It didnt JUST HAPPEN out of no where. Nothing can just produce and form on its own. Matter cannot form without other matter. Therefore something had to start out and create the first form of matter, or energy in the universe to create the big bang.

God created the Big Bang as he said "Let there be light".

This is my scientific take on christianity.

That's not really a scientific take on it all, it's more of a logical take on it.
But even the cosmological argument has problems. It rules out the idea of an infinite regress, a never ending series of causes and effects, while not realizing that God itself is an infinite regress.

Even if we did accept that this argument proved the existence of a God, it would do nothing to prove that it is the God of Christianity.
It would be a Deistic God at best, rather than a Theistic one.

A scientific take on this would prove empirically that God existed, it would work from cause to effect by observational deduction, a posteriori.
You are working from effect to cause by logical deduction, a priori.

I think it would be better if people didn't attempt to invoke science into this debate. Science cannot prove the existence of something which is immaterial and, for reasons I've outlined earlier in this thread, doesn't want to be discovered.
Just as science cannot prove that something does not exist.