002 wrote Violence can't be stopped and it won't be stopped. Until the day every living organism dies, violence will exist. You can try to patch it up with bandaids as much as you want (todays BS liberal ideology), or you can face it head on like what worked for thousands of years.

I know it's hard to compare yourself to a dog, but really think about this, how do dogs solve conflicts (I.E. two dogs and one toy or one food bowl, water bucket, what ever). They establish dominance. How do they do they? They fight. It's part of nature. Trying to change nature is a horrible idea.

True, violence will always be in the universe. That is in no way a reason to embrace it. We should strive to lower it as much as possible, as we have already. Let's just tear down all schools and throw away all technology. We were all uneducated, uncivilized savages before, so why change what we are, right? No, we strive to be greater and better than before. We "change" nature daily. It takes some work to do though. That is where the problems lie. It is easy to get mad and be violent. To strive for more takes time and effort. I'm an antinatalist. I believe we humans should go extinct by just not procreating. That is an unpopular opinion though and will never happen. So in the meantime, on the road to our inevitable extinction, we need to make this world, this universe, as peaceful as possible (while maintaining basic freedoms of course.) Anyone pushing for violence, the pain, agony, and blood of the future inhabitants of this world is on their hands. People who push for violence most likely won't care though since not caring about things is what they're good at. When it comes to suffering, I won't leave well enough alone. I don't care how long we have been doing something. If it can be better, then make it that way. Making the world better is facing it head on.

There you go again taking one thing and putting more irrelevant things into it lol. This is about violence, not the education system. When you tell someone they can't do something or can't have something, generally a human will do it or try to get it.

When you make every day life extremely hard because you THINK you know how to stop violence, what are you accomplishing? Going back to me and the Mexican trying to bully me, what if I was scared of him? Beings that the school did nothing that stopped him for 3 years, my life would have been a living hell, and my education probably would have suffered.

Kids need to learn how to deal with their problems sooner or later. I don't know if you guys know this or not, but your parents, your teachers, etc. will die before you. What happens when all the people that solved your problems are dead? What about the next generation? How are you going to know how to solve the problems that your kids are facing beings that all you ever did was tell an adult?

its always been like this i went to a majority split..

25%/15%/15%/15%/5%/25% mixed like that and i eventually got used to it

002 wrote This is about violence, not the education system. When you tell someone they can't do something or can't have something, generally a human will do it or try to get it.

Yin was taking your logic to its natural conclusion. You said 'Trying to change nature is a horrible idea.'
Nature, in your context of violence always existing, would mean that we go back to living in the woods and hunting for food. That is what Yin was getting at.

002 wrote When you make every day life extremely hard because you THINK you know how to stop violence, what are you accomplishing?

I don't think you're understanding our position. Yin and I are not advocating for complete pacifism, at least I don't think Yin is.
We are saying that if you have tried every single method which doesn't involve violence, have avoided the person as much as possible, and if they are violent towards you, then you have the right to be violent back to them.

We are not saying that you should never, under any circumstances, be able to hit someone.
We are saying that violence should only be used as a last resort.
It seems as though you are saying that violence should generally be used as a first response solution to bullying.

002 wrote Kids need to learn how to deal with their problems sooner or later. I don't know if you guys know this or not, but your parents, your teachers, etc. will die before you. What happens when all the people that solved your problems are dead? What about the next generation? How are you going to know how to solve the problems that your kids are facing beings that all you ever did was tell an adult?

You don't teach the children to be violent, you teach the parents and teachers how to combat bullying peacefully.
You're acting like this is out of the realm of possibility, when it really isn't.
The Schooling system is always improving, and it's becoming less violent as the years go on.
You're saying we should stop this progress being made and revert back to where it started.
Caning students would reduce the bullying in schools and teach children not to be disobedient, so do you think that caning should be reintroduced in schools? You're essentially saying that violence is the best way of teaching someone not to bully others, so why not? Why not just let the teachers punch the bullies?

Because the child needs to learn how to do it? They would be learning by example, that's how teachers teach everything else anyway.

Violence and living how we used to live have nothing, and let me repeat that, NOTHING to do with each other. Those are two separate topics. What we did with our living conditions is change them with the tools we made. We are still going with nature, houses are still wood and stone, you heat your home with natural things such as gas, fire, or electricity, etc.

You're right, I don't understand your positions because what you guys are suggesting looks good on paper, but when you look at it in the real world it does not work. I'm not saying violence should be the first thing you should do, go back and read what I had posted. You talk to the person to show them where you stand and that you feel that what they are saying is not ok (at least what they are saying to you). Everyone has an opinion, that does not mean you should be sharing with the person you have the opinion about it if you don't want repercussions.

There is no way to combat bullying peacefully. That's like these dipshits out on the battle field in cross fire holding up world piece signs, it hasn't worked before, it isn't working now, and it won't work later. "The schooling system is always improving"? I disagree with that. Kid's aren't being informed or taught, they are giving the things to pass the test at the end of the week. "it's becoming less violent as the years go on". What? You are misinformed. The number of violence incidences in schools is increasing. The National League of Cities reports that between 1990 and 1994, 33 percent of member cities had a significant increase in school violence (a student killed or seriously injured), and in 199394, school violence increased 55 percent in large cities and 41 percent in cities of 100,000 or more. Ten percent of teachers and nearly one-fourth of students in public schools say that they have been the victim of a violent act in school (Hamburger 1993). In 1993, one-fourth of all high school seniors reported they had been threatened with violence (Stop the Violence 1994). Did you know that violent school threats have increased by 158% from 2010 to 2011? Only 39% of schools in the 2009-2010 school year took serious disciplinary action against a student for special offenses. Actions included out-of-school suspension, expulsion, or transfer to a specialty school. It's out of the realm of possibility. Look at all the kids committing suicide because of bullies. They are jumping threw the schools hoops of reporting it and the schools won't do a damn thing.

Again, if e are being taught to tell an adult to solve our problems, what are we going to tell our children? Go talk to your grandparents? After all, that's the example we are being shown.

Bulbastone wrote

Electrician wrote I'm a black guy and that's not true on some levels. I don't have no problem with white people but it's some blacks that do. That's just like some white people having problems with black people. It's going to happen, nothing nobody can do but hope that the next generation isn't brought up thinking that

Lemme disagree on this.

Your saying that White People are having problems with Blacks. That is somewhat correct , but look at this video.
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I don't wanna take too much space , but this defenseless white guy ttys to fight for himself and this video only has 16k views i bet you 100% that this video was not on the news. Its just floating around like all the other fights on world star

BUT , Look at this video or article
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Its on WorldStar , Different news websites. Then everyone goes crazy and starts making comments about how White People are crazy "crackers"

Not trying to be racist or anything just speaking my opinion
The fact the guy said while people cant fight but lets just reflect on some of the best MMA fighters....
Chuck Lidell
Ken Shamrock
Matt Hughes

002 wrote Violence and living how we used to live have nothing, and let me repeat that, NOTHING to do with each other. Those are two separate topics. What we did with our living conditions is change them with the tools we made. We are still going with nature, houses are still wood and stone, you heat your home with natural things such as gas, fire, or electricity, etc.

You said that, "Violence can't be stopped and it won't be stopped. Until the day every living organism dies, violence will exist."
You are looking at violence like it's some ingrained part of us, that we can't be pacifistic, the simple fact that pacifists exist disproves that.

What is the difference between using our tools to change our living conditions and using them to change how violent we have to be?
That's the reason why we invented prisons. The options for violent people living in peaceful communities in the past were either exile [meaning death by exposure], or death by execution.
We don't have to do that any more. We used our tools to become less violent.

002 wrote I'm not saying violence should be the first thing you should do, go back and read what I had posted. You talk to the person to show them where you stand and that you feel that what they are saying is not ok (at least what they are saying to you). Everyone has an opinion, that does not mean you should be sharing with the person you have the opinion about it if you don't want repercussions.

So at what point are you saying that violence should be OK? After they have hit you? After they express their opinion which you don't agree with once? Twice?
At what point does violence become OK in your book?

002 wrote There is no way to combat bullying peacefully. That's like these dipshits out on the battle field in cross fire holding up world piece signs, it hasn't worked before, it isn't working now, and it won't work later.

You are not seriously trying to suggest that bullying in a school is analogous with a battlefield are you?
If there were these authoritarian figures on the battlefield who could split up the fight and send one army to the naughty corner, then maybe they would be analogous.

002 wrote "The schooling system is always improving"? I disagree with that. Kid's aren't being informed or taught, they are giving the things to pass the test at the end of the week.

Obviously I was referring to violence in schools, not your opinion on how children are being taught, but since you addressed my actual point here...

002 wrote "it's becoming less violent as the years go on". What? You are misinformed. The number of violence incidences in schools is increasing. The National League of Cities reports that between 1990 and 1994, 33 percent of member cities had a significant increase in school violence (a student killed or seriously injured), and in 199394, school violence increased 55 percent in large cities and 41 percent in cities of 100,000 or more. Ten percent of teachers and nearly one-fourth of students in public schools say that they have been the victim of a violent act in school (Hamburger 1993). In 1993, one-fourth of all high school seniors reported they had been threatened with violence (Stop the Violence 1994). Did you know that violent school threats have increased by 158% from 2010 to 2011? Only 39% of schools in the 2009-2010 school year took serious disciplinary action against a student for special offenses. Actions included out-of-school suspension, expulsion, or transfer to a specialty school.

That is fair enough, I can accept when I am wrong about something, however, you bring up a statistic which backs up one of my earlier points:

002 wrote Only 39% of schools in the 2009-2010 school year took serious disciplinary action against a student for special offenses. Actions included out-of-school suspension, expulsion, or transfer to a specialty school.

I said earlier that "You don't teach the children to be violent, you teach the parents and teachers how to combat bullying peacefully."
More schools need to use special measures in bullying incidents. If this percentage were to rise, less bullying incidents would repeatedly occur to the same children. Obviously initial incidents of bullying would stay around about the same numbers, as teachers would have to react to a bullying situation, rather than somehow stop them happening before they happen.

Just because this isn't happening doesn't mean it is out of the realm of possibility.

002 wrote Again, if we are being taught to tell an adult to solve our problems, what are we going to tell our children? Go talk to your grandparents? After all, that's the example we are being shown.

We are going to tell our children to ask their teachers or us for help. Parents and teachers have an obviously different dynamic with children than other children do.

Have fun with your ideas, just because certain people exist does not mean by any chance that all of humanity will be like those people. That's like saying being because there are orange trees maybe only orange trees can exist in the future.

You can think it'd be great to get rid of violence but like I've said before, until we all look the same, talk the same, act the same, essentially until we are all robots, there will be violence. Being different leads to social status leads to someone being dominant and that will cause violence when people challenge the dominant one like they do in the animal kingdom.

Go ahead, protest for this no violent stuff, just keep your day job and keep your priorities straight. Trying to stop violence is like working trying to push a semi truck up a tree.

002 wrote Have fun with your ideas, just because certain people exist does not mean by any chance that all of humanity will be like those people. That's like saying being because there are orange trees maybe only orange trees can exist in the future.

Equally, just because violent people are the majority in this world doesn't mean that they will be in the future.
Your analogy works both ways, if we take orange trees to mean violent people, then it's like saying that only orange trees will exist in the future even though there is room for other trees to grow.

002 wrote You can think it'd be great to get rid of violence but like I've said before, until we all look the same, talk the same, act the same, essentially until we are all robots, there will be violence.

You can't really believe that violence is the only way to express individuality, can you?

Differences lead to violence in the current state of the world, yes, but we are talking about the future state of the world.
You keep using the present and past to try and refute us.
You aren't giving any reasons why violence can't decrease as we head into the future.

002 wrote Go ahead, protest for this no violent stuff, just keep your day job and keep your priorities straight. Trying to stop violence is like working trying to push a semi truck up a tree.

I like your last analogy because it's not impossible, it just requires hard work and a bit of ingenuity.
Unlike your position which is basically, 'Humans suck and will always suck so why not be violent?' which requires you to do nothing except sit back and watch the truck fall on the people actually trying to lift it.

But I get the impression that you can't be bothered with this discussion any more, so feel free to reply to this [if you want to] and I'll leave it be.
I think we've both made our points and views fairly clear.

See you around dude.

Violence has gotten us this far, hasn't it? Let me put a twist on things. 10,000 years go by, we are now in the year 12,015. We haven't done anything violent since the year 2016, no hockey, no fights, no wars, etc. Now let's say aliens visit us to take over the planet for resources. Will we be able to react and protect ourselves? Violence isn't always a bad thing, it works for protection as well.