Heres my essay on why barrack obama is a good president and everything hes done right for our country

:trollin:

002 wrote Here is a simple fact for all you simple minded liberals out there. Drinking too much can harm your health. Excessive alcohol use led to approximately 88,000 deaths and 2.5 million years of potential life lost (YPLL) each year in the United States from 2006 2010, shortening the lives of those who died by an average of 30 years.1,2 Further, excessive drinking was responsible for 1 in 10 deaths among working-age adults aged 20-64 years.

88k deaths from drinking, or 11k from guns. Sounds like alcohol is at least 8 times more of a problem than guns. That only goes to 2010, 5 years later that number is probably a lot higher...

People don't choose to be murdered by someone with a gun. People choose to drink alcohol.
Alcohol and guns are not analogous.

Nocebo wrote

002 wrote Here is a simple fact for all you simple minded liberals out there. Drinking too much can harm your health. Excessive alcohol use led to approximately 88,000 deaths and 2.5 million years of potential life lost (YPLL) each year in the United States from 2006 2010, shortening the lives of those who died by an average of 30 years.1,2 Further, excessive drinking was responsible for 1 in 10 deaths among working-age adults aged 20-64 years.

88k deaths from drinking, or 11k from guns. Sounds like alcohol is at least 8 times more of a problem than guns. That only goes to 2010, 5 years later that number is probably a lot higher...

People don't choose to be murdered by someone with a gun. People choose to drink alcohol.
Alcohol and guns are not analogous.

My buddy didn't choose to be hit by a drunk driver either, but it happened.

Let's look at mass murders. You know how a teacher can stop a mass shooting? Shoot the shooter with their own gun.

002 wrote

Nocebo wrote

002 wrote Here is a simple fact for all you simple minded liberals out there. Drinking too much can harm your health. Excessive alcohol use led to approximately 88,000 deaths and 2.5 million years of potential life lost (YPLL) each year in the United States from 2006 2010, shortening the lives of those who died by an average of 30 years.1,2 Further, excessive drinking was responsible for 1 in 10 deaths among working-age adults aged 20-64 years.

88k deaths from drinking, or 11k from guns. Sounds like alcohol is at least 8 times more of a problem than guns. That only goes to 2010, 5 years later that number is probably a lot higher...

People don't choose to be murdered by someone with a gun. People choose to drink alcohol.
Alcohol and guns are not analogous.

My buddy didn't choose to be hit by a drunk driver either, but it happened.

Let's look at mass murders. You know how a teacher can stop a mass shooting? Shoot the shooter with their own gun.

See thats the logical thing, but its better to hide in classrooms with all the lights off, surely a shooter is gonna think that since ALL the classrooms are dark on a schoolday, no ones home right?

002 wrote

Nocebo wrote

002 wrote Here is a simple fact for all you simple minded liberals out there. Drinking too much can harm your health. Excessive alcohol use led to approximately 88,000 deaths and 2.5 million years of potential life lost (YPLL) each year in the United States from 2006 2010, shortening the lives of those who died by an average of 30 years.1,2 Further, excessive drinking was responsible for 1 in 10 deaths among working-age adults aged 20-64 years.

88k deaths from drinking, or 11k from guns. Sounds like alcohol is at least 8 times more of a problem than guns. That only goes to 2010, 5 years later that number is probably a lot higher...

People don't choose to be murdered by someone with a gun. People choose to drink alcohol.
Alcohol and guns are not analogous.

My buddy didn't choose to be hit by a drunk driver either, but it happened.

Let's look at mass murders. You know how a teacher can stop a mass shooting? Shoot the shooter with their own gun.

Drunk driving is illegal, and considering that you can't put a restriction like that on the use of guns, the second most analogous thing would be to increase the background checks provided before guns can be bought and to make sure that whenever guns are bought and sold it is done with the proper oversights - like not being allowed to buy a gun off a family member.

Fortunately for this conversation, I don't think that background checks are the best way to solve the issue of gun crime, so I won't defend them as rigorously as I would any other position of importance I hold. I don't think that they can do anything but help, but they are still quite an insignificant change compared to other things which could be done but aren't being discussed in the same context - see my earlier post on this topic.

Maybe it is a logical idea to have teachers armed in the context of deterring a mass shooter, or at least combating them, but you have to apply that logic to a full school year in every school in the country, most of which will never see a mass shooting.
Let's say, for the sake of ease, that it is put into law that all classrooms must have a gun, securely hidden away from the eyes of students, but close enough for a teacher to access easily - and that the teacher must be trained in the use of fire arms before being allowed to teach - in case a mass shooter enters the building.

Let's ignore the issues of teachers rejecting this due to religious, political, or other reasons, and say that they are simply forced into abiding because of job security, peer pressure, pressure from parents, or other reasons, and go with it any way.

Now, the students in these classrooms must sit for 180 days, 6.7 hours per day, knowing that their teacher has access to a weapon which could destroy their ignorant little brains, and they must assume at all times that their teacher is of stable mind, or else said teacher might feel inclined to access the gun and start pumping round after round into Jimmy's asthmatic little chest because he won't stop laughing at the answer '69.'

What kind of environment does this create in a school? It would create fear and tension in every single classroom.
A place where children should go to feel safe and learn about the world.

The argument could be made that the teachers would have to undergo regular psychological tests, but like the opponents of gun reform enjoy saying, they're not always right.

So, in addition to my points about mental health education reform in my earlier post, in regards to schools specifically, they should have an appropriate amount of armed security guards at every school, dependent upon the size of the school, and school facilities should be upgraded to deal with a shooter without putting a gun in the hand of every teacher and turning the school into something from an 80's action movie.

Nocebo wrote

002 wrote

Nocebo wrote

002 wrote Here is a simple fact for all you simple minded liberals out there. Drinking too much can harm your health. Excessive alcohol use led to approximately 88,000 deaths and 2.5 million years of potential life lost (YPLL) each year in the United States from 2006 2010, shortening the lives of those who died by an average of 30 years.1,2 Further, excessive drinking was responsible for 1 in 10 deaths among working-age adults aged 20-64 years.

88k deaths from drinking, or 11k from guns. Sounds like alcohol is at least 8 times more of a problem than guns. That only goes to 2010, 5 years later that number is probably a lot higher...

People don't choose to be murdered by someone with a gun. People choose to drink alcohol.
Alcohol and guns are not analogous.

My buddy didn't choose to be hit by a drunk driver either, but it happened.

Let's look at mass murders. You know how a teacher can stop a mass shooting? Shoot the shooter with their own gun.

Drunk driving is illegal, and considering that you can't put a restriction like that on the use of guns, the second most analogous thing would be to increase the background checks provided before guns can be bought and to make sure that whenever guns are bought and sold it is done with the proper oversights - like not being allowed to buy a gun off a family member.

Fortunately for this conversation, I don't think that background checks are the best way to solve the issue of gun crime, so I won't defend them as rigorously as I would any other position of importance I hold. I don't think that they can do anything but help, but they are still quite an insignificant change compared to other things which could be done but aren't being discussed in the same context - see my earlier post on this topic.

Maybe it is a logical idea to have teachers armed in the context of deterring a mass shooter, or at least combating them, but you have to apply that logic to a full school year in every school in the country, most of which will never see a mass shooting.
Let's say, for the sake of ease, that it is put into law that all classrooms must have a gun, securely hidden away from the eyes of students, but close enough for a teacher to access easily - and that the teacher must be trained in the use of fire arms before being allowed to teach - in case a mass shooter enters the building.

Let's ignore the issues of teachers rejecting this due to religious, political, or other reasons, and say that they are simply forced into abiding because of job security, peer pressure, pressure from parents, or other reasons, and go with it any way.

Now, the students in these classrooms must sit for 180 days, 6.7 hours per day, knowing that their teacher has access to a weapon which could destroy their ignorant little brains, and they must assume at all times that their teacher is of stable mind, or else said teacher might feel inclined to access the gun and start pumping round after round into Jimmy's asthmatic little chest because he won't stop laughing at the answer '69.'

What kind of environment does this create in a school? It would create fear and tension in every single classroom.
A place where children should go to feel safe and learn about the world.

The argument could be made that the teachers would have to undergo regular psychological tests, but like the opponents of gun reform enjoy saying, they're not always right.

So, in addition to my points about mental health education reform in my earlier post, in regards to schools specifically, they should have an appropriate amount of armed security guards at every school, dependent upon the size of the school, and school facilities should be upgraded to deal with a shooter without putting a gun in the hand of every teacher and turning the school into something from an 80's action movie.

Drunk driving is illegal, as is murdering someone with a firearm. Your point was? You absolutely can put restrictions on drunk driving. They actually have the breath test things on cars that you have to pass before it will unlock for you. "the second most analogous thing would be to increase the background checks provided before guns can be bought and to make sure that whenever guns are bought and sold it is done with the proper oversights - like not being allowed to buy a gun off a family member." You act like I can walk into a store and buy a firearm without a background check. You can't. Yes, you can buy a gun off your neighbor, but a gun is registered like your car. You and your neighbor will have to go to a gun shop, or some place certified to transfer ownership of the firearm, at which point they will run a background check.

Background checks are absolutely significant. Is it a fool proof way? No. Are there better ways to make sure people with ill intent don't get guns? Perhaps.

It is a logical idea for teachers be to armed IF they have been properly trained. I personally would rather a teacher open carry and be trained in personal defense with a once a month meeting to touch up their skills, but that's just me. The fact is, most kids, no matter how screwed up in the head, won't shoot another classmate for being an idiot. He might beat the living crap out of him, but not shoot him.

You're worried about a teacher going psycho? Look at all the cops patrolling your streets, you have to worry about them. Look at all the people conceal carrying, you can't, but still there is a lot of them. 1 in 20 adults have a conceal carry permit, so at any time 1 in 20 people could have a pistol on them.

Tell you what, this is 2016, most kids have a computer. Why don't we stop schooling in a brick and mortar school building, and just do it online? Here's a fact for you, I was in a traditional school until halfway through 10th grade. Second semester of 10th grade I went to an online school, as of right now I'm graduating a semester early, and my GPA has increased almost a full point. This school didn't cost me a dime, they shipped me my books, a computer, and printer. All I needed was internet access. My education has increased, and one could argue I am not in harms way by not being in a school building.

Would you look at that. Someone with a brain. As I said earlier, the people that commit these mass homicides and terrorist assaults shouldn't have had guns in the first place. More extensive background checks will solve nothing. It's very easy to pick up a gun on the streets if you set your mind to it, and if that doesn't work you can simply build one.

The background checks aren't the problem, nor are the guns the problem. The problem lies in that of the people. These laws and prohibitions the democrats conjure up do more harm than good. They're hurting the good, law abiding citizens who do things the right way in a sad attempt to disarm people who shouldn't have them in the first place. When's the last time we heard about someone doing these things with a gun that belonged to them rightfully?

Obama didn't get his way so he's bypassing Congress (and the desires of his people) like he always does. Baby didn't get what he wanted so now he's throwing a tantrum.

002 wrote

Nocebo wrote

002 wrote

Nocebo wrote

002 wrote Here is a simple fact for all you simple minded liberals out there. Drinking too much can harm your health. Excessive alcohol use led to approximately 88,000 deaths and 2.5 million years of potential life lost (YPLL) each year in the United States from 2006 2010, shortening the lives of those who died by an average of 30 years.1,2 Further, excessive drinking was responsible for 1 in 10 deaths among working-age adults aged 20-64 years.

88k deaths from drinking, or 11k from guns. Sounds like alcohol is at least 8 times more of a problem than guns. That only goes to 2010, 5 years later that number is probably a lot higher...

People don't choose to be murdered by someone with a gun. People choose to drink alcohol.
Alcohol and guns are not analogous.

My buddy didn't choose to be hit by a drunk driver either, but it happened.

Let's look at mass murders. You know how a teacher can stop a mass shooting? Shoot the shooter with their own gun.

Drunk driving is illegal, and considering that you can't put a restriction like that on the use of guns, the second most analogous thing would be to increase the background checks provided before guns can be bought and to make sure that whenever guns are bought and sold it is done with the proper oversights - like not being allowed to buy a gun off a family member.

Fortunately for this conversation, I don't think that background checks are the best way to solve the issue of gun crime, so I won't defend them as rigorously as I would any other position of importance I hold. I don't think that they can do anything but help, but they are still quite an insignificant change compared to other things which could be done but aren't being discussed in the same context - see my earlier post on this topic.

Maybe it is a logical idea to have teachers armed in the context of deterring a mass shooter, or at least combating them, but you have to apply that logic to a full school year in every school in the country, most of which will never see a mass shooting.
Let's say, for the sake of ease, that it is put into law that all classrooms must have a gun, securely hidden away from the eyes of students, but close enough for a teacher to access easily - and that the teacher must be trained in the use of fire arms before being allowed to teach - in case a mass shooter enters the building.

Let's ignore the issues of teachers rejecting this due to religious, political, or other reasons, and say that they are simply forced into abiding because of job security, peer pressure, pressure from parents, or other reasons, and go with it any way.

Now, the students in these classrooms must sit for 180 days, 6.7 hours per day, knowing that their teacher has access to a weapon which could destroy their ignorant little brains, and they must assume at all times that their teacher is of stable mind, or else said teacher might feel inclined to access the gun and start pumping round after round into Jimmy's asthmatic little chest because he won't stop laughing at the answer '69.'

What kind of environment does this create in a school? It would create fear and tension in every single classroom.
A place where children should go to feel safe and learn about the world.

The argument could be made that the teachers would have to undergo regular psychological tests, but like the opponents of gun reform enjoy saying, they're not always right.

So, in addition to my points about mental health education reform in my earlier post, in regards to schools specifically, they should have an appropriate amount of armed security guards at every school, dependent upon the size of the school, and school facilities should be upgraded to deal with a shooter without putting a gun in the hand of every teacher and turning the school into something from an 80's action movie.

Drunk driving is illegal, as is murdering someone with a firearm. Your point was? You absolutely can put restrictions on drunk driving. They actually have the breath test things on cars that you have to pass before it will unlock for you.

That was my point, guns and drunk driving aren't analogous because you can't have a restriction which stops people from using a gun whilst intoxicated.
Your point about a breath test on cars furthers proves that point, unless you want a breath test put on guns before the firing mechanism unlocks?
But it is a moot point anyway considering most mass shooters aren't drunk when they commit their shooting.

Your analogy would only be correct if you compared intentional car homicides to intentional gun homicides. Something tells me the numbers would be much different, and not in your favor.

"the second most analogous thing would be to increase the background checks provided before guns can be bought and to make sure that whenever guns are bought and sold it is done with the proper oversights - like not being allowed to buy a gun off a family member." You act like I can walk into a store and buy a firearm without a background check.

No, I don't. I specifically used the word, 'increase.'

Yes, you can buy a gun off your neighbor, but a gun is registered like your car. You and your neighbor will have to go to a gun shop, or some place certified to transfer ownership of the firearm, at which point they will run a background check.

In the United States, the law does not require that a record of the acquisition, possession and transfer of each privately held firearm be retained in an official register

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Gun Regulation -> Firearm Registration -> Civilian Gun Registration

Background checks are absolutely significant. Is it a fool proof way? No. Are there better ways to make sure people with ill intent don't get guns? Perhaps.

We are in complete agreement. I said that they are insignificant in relation to other things, not that they are insignificant on their own.

It is a logical idea for teachers be to armed IF they have been properly trained. I personally would rather a teacher open carry and be trained in personal defense with a once a month meeting to touch up their skills, but that's just me. The fact is, most kids, no matter how screwed up in the head, won't shoot another classmate for being an idiot. He might beat the living crap out of him, but not shoot him.

I did say in my outline of this fictional law that the gun would be easily accessible to the teacher, but not accessible to the students.

You're worried about a teacher going psycho? Look at all the cops patrolling your streets, you have to worry about them. Look at all the people conceal carrying, you can't, but still there is a lot of them. 1 in 20 adults have a conceal carry permit, so at any time 1 in 20 people could have a pistol on them.

If I were to respond to this point, I would be entering a realm of ideas on which I am undecided, like issues of police armament and the entire concept of concealed carry.
For the sake of continuity, I would say that both the police should not carry guns, and that the concealed carry law should be repealed.
Because I don't want to shoehorn this conversation off the topic of schools, I will only say that I would take guns off police officers once my other suggestions have been put in place and have had years to make a noticeable effect. But, my stance on that might change dependent on the factors at that time, so I'm not going to commit to that view outright and completely.

Tell you what, this is 2016, most kids have a computer. Why don't we stop schooling in a brick and mortar school building, and just do it online? Here's a fact for you, I was in a traditional school until halfway through 10th grade. Second semester of 10th grade I went to an online school, as of right now I'm graduating a semester early, and my GPA has increased almost a full point. This school didn't cost me a dime, they shipped me my books, a computer, and printer. All I needed was internet access. My education has increased, and one could argue I am not in harms way by not being in a school building.

Children get more from school than book knowledge. Many learn how to socialize and function as members of society at school.
School also offers a method of teaching which is adaptable, sitting at a computer is not an adaptable method of teaching, and not all students learn in that way.
I also suppose we would be throwing art, music, physical education and science out of the window?
You need special equipment for all of those subjects, and an on-hand teacher to teach those subjects.

But this really isn't the subject we are discussing, and I'm not sure why you suggested it.

Well you voted for him 1234((

F4DED wrote Well you voted for him 1234((

Is that a logical argument? Please refer to post #19. We'll be here if you have something valuable to contribute.