Erudite wrote

-MMA- wrote

Erudite wrote

PCMasteer wrote Yeah because they said it would be the year 2050 it would happen

Even if I did believe the Rapture would happen the Bible says, "But that day or hour no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father" so any prediction about when the Rapture could happen is likely bogus.

The Great Tribulation, as described by Jesus, is a past event.
He says that it will be a regional event, as in the region where he lived, and that it would happen during the lives of the people he was talking to.
He said that it would involve the destruction of the temple, which occurred in AD 70.
The death of the Apostles Andrew, Thomas, Matthew, Bartholomew, Simon, Judas [Thaddeus], and Matthias all took place in AD 70, while the death of the Apostle John took place in AD 94.

So the Great Tribulation is almost certainly a past event as it fits all of the criteria.

Jesus also said that from the Great Tribulation the world would get better, and it most certainly has.

Theologically there is no evidence to suggest that the Rapture would be a horrific event, that people would be taken away from their families, or that corpses would return from the ground, but that the souls of those who have died would return to earth and be re-united with their loved ones.

Of course you have to be a Christian to believe this, but if it did happen it would exactly be something to be afraid of because there is nothing to suggest that there won't be chances during and after the rapture to change faith, by which point you'll have all the evidence you need.

YES the rapture will happen, no one knows when except God.

People like "Erudite" reject religion because of past events in their life, Christianity is a categorical evidential based religion so people take the Bible and can make Christianity seem false in infinite amount of ways.

I reject the divinity of Jesus because there is no evidence for it, not because of any past event.
Christianity is based on evidence up until the point that it is claimed that Jesus is divine.

I actually call myself a [ Register or Signin to view external links. ]

Ahhh, wow you are actually easily blinded, you are right at the end of the tunnel but you don't see the light yet.
1st) Jesus Christ lived on the earth I'm sure we can all agree on that because there is historical proof
2nd)the resurrection can be proven in many ways either categorical or common sense( I suggest watching a lecture by William Lane Craig)

I really would find it easier to discuss this over an IM, do you have a Skype?

-MMA- wrote

Erudite wrote

-MMA- wrote

Erudite wrote

PCMasteer wrote Yeah because they said it would be the year 2050 it would happen

Even if I did believe the Rapture would happen the Bible says, "But that day or hour no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father" so any prediction about when the Rapture could happen is likely bogus.

The Great Tribulation, as described by Jesus, is a past event.
He says that it will be a regional event, as in the region where he lived, and that it would happen during the lives of the people he was talking to.
He said that it would involve the destruction of the temple, which occurred in AD 70.
The death of the Apostles Andrew, Thomas, Matthew, Bartholomew, Simon, Judas [Thaddeus], and Matthias all took place in AD 70, while the death of the Apostle John took place in AD 94.

So the Great Tribulation is almost certainly a past event as it fits all of the criteria.

Jesus also said that from the Great Tribulation the world would get better, and it most certainly has.

Theologically there is no evidence to suggest that the Rapture would be a horrific event, that people would be taken away from their families, or that corpses would return from the ground, but that the souls of those who have died would return to earth and be re-united with their loved ones.

Of course you have to be a Christian to believe this, but if it did happen it would exactly be something to be afraid of because there is nothing to suggest that there won't be chances during and after the rapture to change faith, by which point you'll have all the evidence you need.

YES the rapture will happen, no one knows when except God.

People like "Erudite" reject religion because of past events in their life, Christianity is a categorical evidential based religion so people take the Bible and can make Christianity seem false in infinite amount of ways.

I reject the divinity of Jesus because there is no evidence for it, not because of any past event.
Christianity is based on evidence up until the point that it is claimed that Jesus is divine.

I actually call myself a [ Register or Signin to view external links. ]

Ahhh, wow you are actually easily blinded, you are right at the end of the tunnel but you don't see the light yet.
1st) Jesus Christ lived on the earth I'm sure we can all agree on that because there is historical proof
2nd)the resurrection can be proven in many ways either categorical or common sense( I suggest watching a lecture by William Lane Craig)

I really would find it easier to discuss this over an IM, do you have a Skype?

I hate getting in religious arguments because nobody ever wins, people won't give in or agree if they believe in something enough so I'm just going to end this before I even have to respond.

There is no sufficient proof of Jesus ever existing.

There is not valid historical proof, for hundreds of years after he was supposedly born, there is nothing which gives him the slightest of mention and for someone of his stature, that is impossible.

The bible is not proof so please never mention in it as proof of anything.

-MMA- wrote

Erudite wrote

-MMA- wrote

Erudite wrote

PCMasteer wrote Yeah because they said it would be the year 2050 it would happen

Even if I did believe the Rapture would happen the Bible says, "But that day or hour no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father" so any prediction about when the Rapture could happen is likely bogus.

The Great Tribulation, as described by Jesus, is a past event.
He says that it will be a regional event, as in the region where he lived, and that it would happen during the lives of the people he was talking to.
He said that it would involve the destruction of the temple, which occurred in AD 70.
The death of the Apostles Andrew, Thomas, Matthew, Bartholomew, Simon, Judas [Thaddeus], and Matthias all took place in AD 70, while the death of the Apostle John took place in AD 94.

So the Great Tribulation is almost certainly a past event as it fits all of the criteria.

Jesus also said that from the Great Tribulation the world would get better, and it most certainly has.

Theologically there is no evidence to suggest that the Rapture would be a horrific event, that people would be taken away from their families, or that corpses would return from the ground, but that the souls of those who have died would return to earth and be re-united with their loved ones.

Of course you have to be a Christian to believe this, but if it did happen it would exactly be something to be afraid of because there is nothing to suggest that there won't be chances during and after the rapture to change faith, by which point you'll have all the evidence you need.

YES the rapture will happen, no one knows when except God.

People like "Erudite" reject religion because of past events in their life, Christianity is a categorical evidential based religion so people take the Bible and can make Christianity seem false in infinite amount of ways.

I reject the divinity of Jesus because there is no evidence for it, not because of any past event.
Christianity is based on evidence up until the point that it is claimed that Jesus is divine.

I actually call myself a [ Register or Signin to view external links. ]

I really would find it easier to discuss this over an IM, do you have a Skype?

No.

Ahhh, wow you are actually easily blinded, you are right at the end of the tunnel but you don't see the light yet.
1st) Jesus Christ lived on the earth I'm sure we can all agree on that because there is historical proof
2nd)the resurrection can be proven in many ways either categorical or common sense( I suggest watching a lecture by William Lane Craig)

I have seen videos by William Lane Craig, and the debate in which he tries to prove that Jesus really was resurrected.
I'm not convinced.

He uses 3 'facts' to 'prove' his resurrection hypothesis.

1) The empty tomb story is scholarly accepted by the majority of theologians.
- Majority agreement does not = proof. The Big Bang theory has proven that.

2) Jesus appeared to the disciples after death, and appeared to unbelievers, and sceptics alike.
- There is enough evidence to suggest that Jesus' resurrection was invented by an early Christian writer, and was then taken up in the Gospels by other writers as a factual part of the story in order to kick-start the Christian faith.
Nobody would create a religion about following a prophet, but God himself in Human form is another story entirely.
This invention includes the events after he rises from the dead.
We know that the Gospel writers took bits and pieces from one another, and changed things to fit their own Gospels' agenda.

3) The original disciples suddenly came to believe in the divinity of Jesus
- See the refutation for #2.

You can call me 'easily blinded' all you want, but it does nothing to convince me of your position.
If anything it just makes you look stuck up, a very modern-Christian attribute.

And if we're going to throw theologians at one another then you should take a look at Dr. Robert Price.

Yup, classic illogical responses! If you're too scared to look for categorical evidence than you're too scared to find the truth!

-MMA- wrote Yup, classic illogical responses! If you're too scared to look for categorical evidence than you're too scared to find the truth!

Excellent rebuttal.
You start the debate by telling me to look for further information.
I reply showing that I have. You tell me to look again.
Why don't you tell me what I'm missing?

No it won't happen. Listen to how absurd and stupid it sounds. If there were a god I'm certain there'd be solid proof of it, there's not. Shit like the ten commandments were used back in those times as rules/laws, things like that were meant to control people and they still do evidently. It's basically saying if you obey everything we tell you, you will be floated up to heaven, you will live forever, your loved ones who have died will be resurrected, etc..

If you believe that you're obviously not that smart, I genuinely think that if you believe in Religion you have some sort of mental health condition. Already know I'll get downvoted so, INB4 downvotes.

ikhalifaai wrote No it won't happen. Listen to how absurd and stupid it sounds. If there were a god I'm certain there'd be solid proof of it, there's not. Shit like the ten commandments were used back in those times as rules/laws, things like that were meant to control people and they still do evidently. It's basically saying if you obey everything we tell you, you will be floated up to heaven, you will live forever, your loved ones who have died will be resurrected, etc..

If you believe that you're obviously not that smart, I genuinely think that if you believe in Religion you have some sort of mental health condition. Already know I'll get downvoted so, INB4 downvotes.

If there were a god I'm certain there'd be solid proof of it, there's not.

While I understand that the burden of proof lies on the person making the positive claim - I.E: I tell you that Unicorns are real, now I have to prove that they are real - I find the notion that God would have been proven to exist by now folly.

As we are discussing the God of Christianity the main principle behind this belief is faith.
The purpose of Earth is for God to see who is faithful and who succumbs to sin.
If he made his presence known to humans then faith would become an irrelevant factor as everyone would believe.

Unfortunately this argument can work against the God of Christianity as he allowed a few hundred to see proof of his existence before they died throughout the Bible.
It is easy to say that they were the luckiest people to ever walk this Earth if the story is true.

As for Religion being a mental health issue, this is quite an extraordinary claim, and I think it has little basis.
A person's religious belief says nothing about their intelligence or acumen, it only gives an insight into their capacity for faith, something we all have.
A more harsh critic of Religion might replace faith with illusion, but that is also something we all have a capacity for.

Erudite wrote

ikhalifaai wrote No it won't happen. Listen to how absurd and stupid it sounds. If there were a god I'm certain there'd be solid proof of it, there's not. Shit like the ten commandments were used back in those times as rules/laws, things like that were meant to control people and they still do evidently. It's basically saying if you obey everything we tell you, you will be floated up to heaven, you will live forever, your loved ones who have died will be resurrected, etc..

If you believe that you're obviously not that smart, I genuinely think that if you believe in Religion you have some sort of mental health condition. Already know I'll get downvoted so, INB4 downvotes.

If there were a god I'm certain there'd be solid proof of it, there's not.

While I understand that the burden of proof lies on the person making the positive claim - I.E: I tell you that Unicorns are real, now I have to prove that they are real - I find the notion that God would have been proven to exist by now folly.

As we are discussing the God of Christianity the main principle behind this belief is faith.
The purpose of Earth is for God to see who is faithful and who succumbs to sin.
If he made his presence known to humans then faith would become an irrelevant factor as everyone would believe.

Unfortunately this argument can work against the God of Christianity as he allowed a few hundred to see proof of his existence before they died throughout the Bible.
It is easy to say that they were the luckiest people to ever walk this Earth if the story is true.

As for Religion being a mental health issue, this is quite an extraordinary claim, and I think it has little basis.
A person's religious belief says nothing about their intelligence or acumen, it only gives an insight into their capacity for faith, something we all have.
A more harsh critic of Religion might replace faith with illusion, but that is also something we all have a capacity for.

I agree with what you're saying for the most part, someone says one thing, someone else counters it.

It's an endless cycle.

I personally believe it is a mental health issue. It gets drilled into people as children and they carry that into their adulthood life, believing everything they've been taught is truth, as you do when you're a child.

Why is it that when you see someone on a T.V show saying they've had contact with aliens, they've seen big foot or some other crazy theory, you think they're a loony (I'm sure most people think that) and it's always some crazy looking hill billy but we live in a society where people believe in an invisible man and the agnostics don't know what to believe and people find that normal behaviour? Because it's been drilled into people's heads at a young age.

If our whole generation told our kids Santa was real and led them into adulthood believing that they would still believe it. We'd have to make up an excuse though, like all religions, why Santa isn't visible and why he stopped delivering presents. We could tell them he's up in the sky too and will come down in centuries and centuries to give them all presents, only if they've been good though.

ikhalifaai wrote

Erudite wrote

ikhalifaai wrote No it won't happen. Listen to how absurd and stupid it sounds. If there were a god I'm certain there'd be solid proof of it, there's not. Shit like the ten commandments were used back in those times as rules/laws, things like that were meant to control people and they still do evidently. It's basically saying if you obey everything we tell you, you will be floated up to heaven, you will live forever, your loved ones who have died will be resurrected, etc..

If you believe that you're obviously not that smart, I genuinely think that if you believe in Religion you have some sort of mental health condition. Already know I'll get downvoted so, INB4 downvotes.

If there were a god I'm certain there'd be solid proof of it, there's not.

While I understand that the burden of proof lies on the person making the positive claim - I.E: I tell you that Unicorns are real, now I have to prove that they are real - I find the notion that God would have been proven to exist by now folly.

As we are discussing the God of Christianity the main principle behind this belief is faith.
The purpose of Earth is for God to see who is faithful and who succumbs to sin.
If he made his presence known to humans then faith would become an irrelevant factor as everyone would believe.

Unfortunately this argument can work against the God of Christianity as he allowed a few hundred to see proof of his existence before they died throughout the Bible.
It is easy to say that they were the luckiest people to ever walk this Earth if the story is true.

As for Religion being a mental health issue, this is quite an extraordinary claim, and I think it has little basis.
A person's religious belief says nothing about their intelligence or acumen, it only gives an insight into their capacity for faith, something we all have.
A more harsh critic of Religion might replace faith with illusion, but that is also something we all have a capacity for.

I agree with what you're saying for the most part, someone says one thing, someone else counters it.

It's an endless cycle.

I personally believe it is a mental health issue. It gets drilled into people as children and they carry that into their adulthood life, believing everything they've been taught is truth, as you do when you're a child.

Why is it that when you see someone on a T.V show saying they've had contact with aliens, they've seen big foot or some other crazy theory, you think they're a loony (I'm sure most people think that) and it's always some crazy looking hill billy but we live in a society where people believe in an invisible man and the agnostics don't know what to believe and people find that normal behaviour? Because it's been drilled into people's heads at a young age.

If our whole generation told our kids Santa was real and led them into adulthood believing that they would still believe it. We'd have to make up an excuse though, like all religions, why Santa isn't visible and why he stopped delivering presents. We could tell them he's up in the sky too and will come down in centuries and centuries to give them all presents, only if they've been good though.

I don't think God is analogous with Santa, bigfoot, or aliens for one main reason.
God provides an easy answer to one of the fundamental questions about existence.
None of these other things do.

I think it is this answer which drives people to believe in God, whereas a belief in bigfoot usually comes from an encounter in the woods, or belief in aliens usually comes from a drunken night out.

I'm not saying that Religion isn't lazy, simple, or without logic. Only that it is an understandable reaction to a world seemingly without meaning and not a mental health issue, as you put it.

Erudite wrote

ikhalifaai wrote

Erudite wrote

ikhalifaai wrote No it won't happen. Listen to how absurd and stupid it sounds. If there were a god I'm certain there'd be solid proof of it, there's not. Shit like the ten commandments were used back in those times as rules/laws, things like that were meant to control people and they still do evidently. It's basically saying if you obey everything we tell you, you will be floated up to heaven, you will live forever, your loved ones who have died will be resurrected, etc..

If you believe that you're obviously not that smart, I genuinely think that if you believe in Religion you have some sort of mental health condition. Already know I'll get downvoted so, INB4 downvotes.

If there were a god I'm certain there'd be solid proof of it, there's not.

While I understand that the burden of proof lies on the person making the positive claim - I.E: I tell you that Unicorns are real, now I have to prove that they are real - I find the notion that God would have been proven to exist by now folly.

As we are discussing the God of Christianity the main principle behind this belief is faith.
The purpose of Earth is for God to see who is faithful and who succumbs to sin.
If he made his presence known to humans then faith would become an irrelevant factor as everyone would believe.

Unfortunately this argument can work against the God of Christianity as he allowed a few hundred to see proof of his existence before they died throughout the Bible.
It is easy to say that they were the luckiest people to ever walk this Earth if the story is true.

As for Religion being a mental health issue, this is quite an extraordinary claim, and I think it has little basis.
A person's religious belief says nothing about their intelligence or acumen, it only gives an insight into their capacity for faith, something we all have.
A more harsh critic of Religion might replace faith with illusion, but that is also something we all have a capacity for.

I agree with what you're saying for the most part, someone says one thing, someone else counters it.

It's an endless cycle.

I personally believe it is a mental health issue. It gets drilled into people as children and they carry that into their adulthood life, believing everything they've been taught is truth, as you do when you're a child.

Why is it that when you see someone on a T.V show saying they've had contact with aliens, they've seen big foot or some other crazy theory, you think they're a loony (I'm sure most people think that) and it's always some crazy looking hill billy but we live in a society where people believe in an invisible man and the agnostics don't know what to believe and people find that normal behaviour? Because it's been drilled into people's heads at a young age.

If our whole generation told our kids Santa was real and led them into adulthood believing that they would still believe it. We'd have to make up an excuse though, like all religions, why Santa isn't visible and why he stopped delivering presents. We could tell them he's up in the sky too and will come down in centuries and centuries to give them all presents, only if they've been good though.

I don't think God is analogous with Santa, bigfoot, or aliens for one main reason.
God provides an easy answer to one of the fundamental questions about existence.
None of these other things do.

I think it is this answer which drives people to believe in God, whereas a belief in bigfoot usually comes from an encounter in the woods, or belief in aliens usually comes from a drunken night out.

I'm not saying that Religion isn't lazy, simple, or without logic. Only that it is an understandable reaction to a world seemingly without meaning and not a mental health issue, as you put it.

Yeah I kind of agree but the point I'm getting at is we deem people crazy that believe in the things I've mentioned even though encountering aliens is far more likely than god being real. It shouldn't matter if they're looking for the answers imo.

Imo people should stop looking for the answers of how it all started and focus on living their own life instead of worrying about sinning and all that nonsense. God will never be proven to be real and to people that say he'll never be proven to be fake, that's true. I've seen a half spider half horse once, it died and disappeared, that too can't be proved as being fake either.

The big bang created the universe, that's how it all began.